Offers for Gasol?

[torotoe]

I don't think Denver would move Chandler or Fournier for Gasol. Each of those young players has more value to the Nuggets (and probably around the league too) than Gasol. I'd give up Hamilton, McGee and Miller. Maybe include Portland?

Denver out: Miller, Hamilton, McGee
Denver in: Gasol

LAL out: Gasol
LAL in: Miller, Hamilton, Freeland, POR pick

Portland out: Freeland, #1 pick
Portlandd in: McGee

Lawson
Iguodala/Fournier
Chandler/Gallo*
Faried/Randolph
Gasol/Koufos

[The Rebel]

What about Denver? They have a 57-25 team that isn't too far away from really being a contender, but is struggling in the playoffs and lacks a real go-to-guy. Even if you consider Lawson to have emerged as a 1st option, they still really need one more high-level offensive player that they can rely on.

McGee, Chandler, and Fournier for Gasol works. (Denver actually has enough pieces that there are a few ways for them to arrange a Gasol trade based on whom both teams especially value and whom both teams are willing to part with.)

Denver:
PG: Lawson
SG: Iggy
SF: Gallo (when healthy)
PF: Faried
C: Gasol

Key backups: Miller, Brewer, Koufos

That's still a deep team without any real gaps, but now if Gasol can regain his previous form they might finally have the firepower to contend. With Gasol in the high post and players like Lawson, Iggy, and Miller on the perimeter, this would be a great passing team and overall offensive team IMO.

Meanwhile, the Lakers upgrade at SF with Chandler, pick up a good young prospect who fits D'Antoni's fast-paced system in Fournier, and get a solid back-up/insurance if Dwight doesn't re-sign or gets hurt in McGee. If Dwight does re-sign, and the Lakers don't want to pay McGee 10mil/yr to be a backup, I'm sure other teams would be interested in McGee and they could flip him for an asset at another position or cap space.

there are 4 problems with your scenario.
This would leave the Nuggets with 1 guys who can spread the floor in your rotation.

Gasol fits with the Nuggets roster worse then he does with the Lakers, as the Nuggets whole system is based on tough defense, steals, and running. Gasol is not an improvement on that at all.

This deal would force the Nuggets to resign both Igoudala and Brewer to even have a chance to compete this year. Putting them into the luxury tax for a team that is still not a contender.

The Nuggets best player is out until at least January, Gasol is a win now piece making $20 million a year, why would the 4th youngest team in the league make a deal for a win now piece knowing the team will still have several fatal flaws and will kill the momentum they have built with their roster.

[The Rebel]

I don't think Denver would move Chandler or Fournier for Gasol. Each of those young players has more value to the Nuggets (and probably around the league too) than Gasol. I'd give up Hamilton, McGee and Miller. Maybe include Portland?

Denver out: Miller, Hamilton, McGee
Denver in: Gasol

LAL out: Gasol
LAL in: Miller, Hamilton, Freeland, POR pick

Portland out: Freeland, #1 pick
Portlandd in: McGee

Lawson
Iguodala/Fournier
Chandler/Gallo*
Faried/Randolph
Gasol/Koufos

I personally do not see the Nuggets doing even that at this point, Gasol is too much of a win now piece that puts the Nuggets into the tax if they were to resign Igoudala, considering the Gallo injury, and the payroll implications I don't see them touching Gasol at this point.

[Leto]

For the endless proposals of Pau for Boozer, please explain why the Lakers would trade one low post player for another when that low post player: a) is a two time champion on the Lakers, b) is beloved by the fans, c) has full support of the team's historic superstar, d) is taller and more skilled, e) has a shorter contract, etc.

If the reason is that Boozer makes less money next season, that is not good enough by itself to overcome the above, even with the higher tax implications as the Lakers are one of the, if not the, highest revenue generating team in the NBA.

Mostly baecause It wouldn't be just Boozer for Pau. Likely, it would be Hinrich and Boozer for Pau or a three way that gets the Lakers Boozer and a SF like Ariza or Marvin Williams for Pau. or, you could always go for Bargs

[Gideon]

What about Denver? They have a 57-25 team that isn't too far away from really being a contender, but is struggling in the playoffs and lacks a real go-to-guy. Even if you consider Lawson to have emerged as a 1st option, they still really need one more high-level offensive player that they can rely on.

McGee, Chandler, and Fournier for Gasol works. (Denver actually has enough pieces that there are a few ways for them to arrange a Gasol trade based on whom both teams especially value and whom both teams are willing to part with.)

Denver:
PG: Lawson
SG: Iggy
SF: Gallo (when healthy)
PF: Faried
C: Gasol

Key backups: Miller, Brewer, Koufos

That's still a deep team without any real gaps, but now if Gasol can regain his previous form they might finally have the firepower to contend. With Gasol in the high post and players like Lawson, Iggy, and Miller on the perimeter, this would be a great passing team and overall offensive team IMO.

Meanwhile, the Lakers upgrade at SF with Chandler, pick up a good young prospect who fits D'Antoni's fast-paced system in Fournier, and get a solid back-up/insurance if Dwight doesn't re-sign or gets hurt in McGee. If Dwight does re-sign, and the Lakers don't want to pay McGee 10mil/yr to be a backup, I'm sure other teams would be interested in McGee and they could flip him for an asset at another position or cap space.

there are 4 problems with your scenario.
This would leave the Nuggets with 1 guys who can spread the floor in your rotation.

Gasol fits with the Nuggets roster worse then he does with the Lakers, as the Nuggets whole system is based on tough defense, steals, and running. Gasol is not an improvement on that at all.

This deal would force the Nuggets to resign both Igoudala and Brewer to even have a chance to compete this year. Putting them into the luxury tax for a team that is still not a contender.

The Nuggets best player is out until at least January, Gasol is a win now piece making $20 million a year, why would the 4th youngest team in the league make a deal for a win now piece knowing the team will still have several fatal flaws and will kill the momentum they have built with their roster.

I apparently look at the Nuggets very differently than you do.

First, I don't think Gallo is their best player. I think Lawson and Iggy are both clearly better than him, and I'm actually surprised anyone is seriously arguing otherwise. I don't dislike Gallo at all, and I think he has lots of potential, but there's no way he's as good as Lawson or Iggy right now. Add Pau, and Gallo is the fourth-best player.

Second, what do you mean only "1 guy who can spread the floor?" Lawson, Gallo, and Hamilton can all shoot from the outside well, with Iggy being at least competent, and Miller is a good mid-range shooter. Chandler was out half the season and only played 25 mpg when he was active, and Fournier hardly played at all... the Nuggets aren't suddenly going to lose their ability to spread the floor by losing McGee, Chandler, and Fournier. Also, it's not like they can't make any other roster changes after this trade if they still want to tinker... there are plenty of backup shooting specialists out there who can be had fairly cheap.

Third, Gasol is a good defender and a great passing big man. The idea that 's he's not a good enough defender to fit on the Nuggets doesn't make sense to me at all. (They currently have a platoon of Koufus, McGee, a small lineup with Faried at 5, and occasionally Randolph or Mozgov -- certainly Gasol is a significant defensive upgrade compared to that.) Gasol's not necessarily a true fast-break guy, but few bigs are, and he's certainly a good rebounder and outlet passer, which is important for starting the break. On offense, the Nuggets are essentially a passing team that moves the ball around and needs players to be versatile... having a strong passer and mid-range scorer like Gasol in the post would be a huge upgrade for them. The idea that Gasol somehow doesn't improve the Nuggets because he doesn't fit their identity just seems really odd to me. I just don't think that's the case at all.

And, finally, the idea that Gasol would kill the momentum they've built and that the Nuggets are a "young roster" that doesn't need a "win now" piece... that statement is the one that puzzles me the most. The Nuggets went 57-25 this season (so they are close to being contenders, at least record-wise), but are having trouble in the playoffs. In fact, they've had playoff trouble for a while. Their weakest position BY FAR is center... Gasol, when healthy, is an elite big man, and his versatile, unselfish game fits the Nuggets extremely well imo. They're clearly close to being where they need to be, but still need another piece to get over the hump, and I think Gasol makes perfect sense as that piece.

[tviper]

Gasol to DEN indeed makes sense, but given the Lakers desire to keep 2014 salary clear, best trade is Iggy+Faried for Pau+Duhon. Duhon is then waived for the lesser amount guaranteed. I am sure DEN fans will hate this, but it is the only LAL trade IMO that works. Ramps up the D for LAL, which has to be their identity with D12, regardless of MDA's preference. Gives DEN a low post presence without a long-term commitment. Relatively neutral on 2013-14 cap/tax implications. Guess it depends how DEN views Faried.

[HartfordWhalers]

Gasol to DEN indeed makes sense, but given the Lakers desire to keep 2014 salary clear, best trade is Iggy+Faried for Pau+Duhon. Duhon is then waived for the lesser amount guaranteed. I am sure DEN fans will hate this, but it is the only LAL trade IMO that works. Ramps up the D for LAL, which has to be their identity with D12, regardless of MDA's preference. Gives DEN a low post presence without a long-term commitment. Relatively neutral on 2013-14 cap/tax implications. Guess it depends how DEN views Faried.

Its bad for Denver, and Iguodala is opting out. But mostly its just terrible for Denver.

You really need to ask yourself, is this a good trade for both teams. And then follow that up with are both teams named the Lakers?

[re49gb_2gho32fp]

LAL out: GASOL
LAL in: 9th pick 2013

POR OUT: Matthews, 2nd
POR in: Gasol

Min out: #9
Min in: Matthews, 2nd

Portland do need a center but Gasol doesnt fit the bill...theyd probly rather have the cap and Mathews.

Why?

The hole left by Matthews would be uneasy to cover, but nevertheless a move that needs to be made if this opportunity presented itself.

[PTOboi]

I'm curious to see if any of this stuff materializes. I'm starting to believe LAL might just amnesty Pau.

[tviper]

Gasol to DEN indeed makes sense, but given the Lakers desire to keep 2014 salary clear, best trade is Iggy+Faried for Pau+Duhon. Duhon is then waived for the lesser amount guaranteed. I am sure DEN fans will hate this, but it is the only LAL trade IMO that works. Ramps up the D for LAL, which has to be their identity with D12, regardless of MDA's preference. Gives DEN a low post presence without a long-term commitment. Relatively neutral on 2013-14 cap/tax implications. Guess it depends how DEN views Faried.

Its bad for Denver, and Iguodala is opting out. But mostly its just terrible for Denver.

You really need to ask yourself, is this a good trade for both teams. And then follow that up with are both teams named the Lakers?

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think it is a good trade for both sides. You don't. Fine, that is what forums like this are for. Rather than summarily dismissing this, why not offer some reasons? In my view Faried is somewhat of a limited player, great energy and rebounding, but little skill and undersized. Iggy is a nice player but not a centerpiece. Pau provides low post presence missing from the team currently, which just got bounced in the first round. Again. Also, why do you say Iggy is opting out? One year for 16+M? Really?!

[The Rebel]

there are 4 problems with your scenario.
This would leave the Nuggets with 1 guys who can spread the floor in your rotation.

Gasol fits with the Nuggets roster worse then he does with the Lakers, as the Nuggets whole system is based on tough defense, steals, and running. Gasol is not an improvement on that at all.

This deal would force the Nuggets to resign both Igoudala and Brewer to even have a chance to compete this year. Putting them into the luxury tax for a team that is still not a contender.

The Nuggets best player is out until at least January, Gasol is a win now piece making $20 million a year, why would the 4th youngest team in the league make a deal for a win now piece knowing the team will still have several fatal flaws and will kill the momentum they have built with their roster.

I apparently look at the Nuggets very differently than you do.

First, I don't think Gallo is their best player. I think Lawson and Iggy are both clearly better than him, and I'm actually surprised anyone is seriously arguing otherwise. I don't dislike Gallo at all, and I think he has lots of potential, but there's no way he's as good as Lawson or Iggy right now. Add Pau, and Gallo is the fourth-best player.

It is funny to me how many people who do not follow the Nuggets think Iggy and/or Lawson are better then Gallo, yet Nuggets fans almost across the board will tell you that Gallo is their best and most important player. In fact many Nuggets fans prior to the last month of the season would not have even placed Iggy in the top 3 Nuggets players this season.

Look at it this way in the last 2 years the Nuggets have went 20-20 without Gallo, with Gallo they 77-114 with Gallo or a winning percentage of 67.5% with him.

Second, what do you mean only "1 guy who can spread the floor?" Lawson, Gallo, and Hamilton can all shoot from the outside well, with Iggy being at least competent, and Miller is a good mid-range shooter. Chandler was out half the season and only played 25 mpg when he was active, and Fournier hardly played at all... the Nuggets aren't suddenly going to lose their ability to spread the floor by losing McGee, Chandler, and Fournier. Also, it's not like they can't make any other roster changes after this trade if they still want to tinker... there are plenty of backup shooting specialists out there who can be had fairly cheap.

Hamilton will more then likely never play for George Karl, Karl has decided he does not like him and will not play. Gallo is out until at least the all star game, and will likely take a month to get up to speed when he does get back. Lawson is extremely streaky from 3 and last I checked he is the one creating the shots, meaning he is covered and is the primary weapon that needs the floor spread. Igoudala shot 31.7% from 3 which is far from competent and is only slightly lower then his career average. Also a PG that can only shoot within 15 feet of the rim is not going to spread the floor.

Also please explain to me how the Nuggets can continue to make moves after this deal? Bringing back Iggy and Trading for Gasol, puts the Nuggets into the luxury tax, for a team without a starting Sf for at least half of a year, no backup SG/SF that Karl will play, makes no sense for a team that will not be a contender before the player they are trading for is gone.

Third, Gasol is a good defender and a great passing big man. The idea that 's he's not a good enough defender to fit on the Nuggets doesn't make sense to me at all. (They currently have a platoon of Koufus, McGee, a small lineup with Faried at 5, and occasionally Randolph or Mozgov -- certainly Gasol is a significant defensive upgrade compared to that.) Gasol's not necessarily a true fast-break guy, but few bigs are, and he's certainly a good rebounder and outlet passer, which is important for starting the break. On offense, the Nuggets are essentially a passing team that moves the ball around and needs players to be versatile... having a strong passer and mid-range scorer like Gasol in the post would be a huge upgrade for them. The idea that Gasol somehow doesn't improve the Nuggets because he doesn't fit their identity just seems really odd to me. I just don't think that's the case at all.

Let's be clear Gasol has never been a good defender, at best he was once an above average defender, and has declined over the last 3 years on that end to where he is not even an average defender. Gasol is not an upgrade defensively from Koufos, Chandler, or Mozgov now he is compared to Faried or Randolph but considering the fact that Gasol costs $20+ million a season upgrading the worst 2 defenders is not going to be worthwhile, especially when Faried has improved tremendously defensively in just his 2 years in the league.

Also a team that is extremely young should not dump young talented players for a guy who would be out of the league in a couple of years.

And, finally, the idea that Gasol would kill the momentum they've built and that the Nuggets are a "young roster" that doesn't need a "win now" piece... that statement is the one that puzzles me the most. The Nuggets went 57-25 this season (so they are close to being contenders, at least record-wise), but are having trouble in the playoffs. In fact, they've had playoff trouble for a while. Their weakest position BY FAR is center... Gasol, when healthy, is an elite big man, and his versatile, unselfish game fits the Nuggets extremely well imo. They're clearly close to being where they need to be, but still need another piece to get over the hump, and I think Gasol makes perfect sense as that piece.

57 regular season wins means nothing when a team is ousted in the 1st round again. The average age of the Nuggets is under 24.5 years old, you have them giving up good young pieces to take back a guy who is out of the league in the next 2 years, while their best player is out with an injury for most of the year. 57 wins does not matter (especially given the 40 games over the last 2 years without gallo that shows the Nuggets are a 500 team without him), if a deal does nothing to make a team a contender right now.

That is not even mentioning how much the value is out of line for the Nuggets. Fact is if the Lakers could get a young talented big man, a young prospect, and a starting quality SF, then Gasol would have already been traded. There is not a single combination of players that I can come up with to match salary that I would put together for Gasol. Now maybe if Iggy was not opting out I would possibly trade Iggy for gasol and a future pick or something, but it seems that ship has sailed as Iggy has said numerous times he is opting out.

[The Rebel]

Gasol to DEN indeed makes sense, but given the Lakers desire to keep 2014 salary clear, best trade is Iggy+Faried for Pau+Duhon. Duhon is then waived for the lesser amount guaranteed. I am sure DEN fans will hate this, but it is the only LAL trade IMO that works. Ramps up the D for LAL, which has to be their identity with D12, regardless of MDA's preference. Gives DEN a low post presence without a long-term commitment. Relatively neutral on 2013-14 cap/tax implications. Guess it depends how DEN views Faried.

Its bad for Denver, and Iguodala is opting out. But mostly its just terrible for Denver.

You really need to ask yourself, is this a good trade for both teams. And then follow that up with are both teams named the Lakers?

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think it is a good trade for both sides. You don't. Fine, that is what forums like this are for. Rather than summarily dismissing this, why not offer some reasons? In my view Faried is somewhat of a limited player, great energy and rebounding, but little skill and undersized. Iggy is a nice player but not a centerpiece. Pau provides low post presence missing from the team currently, which just got bounced in the first round. Again. Also, why do you say Iggy is opting out? One year for 16+M? Really?!

Lakers would have to add value to Gasol to get Iggy, Nuggets would laugh the Lakers off the phone if they asked for FAried as well. Gasol does not have close to that kind of value.

[HartfordWhalers]

Its bad for Denver, and Iguodala is opting out. But mostly its just terrible for Denver.

You really need to ask yourself, is this a good trade for both teams. And then follow that up with are both teams named the Lakers?

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think it is a good trade for both sides. You don't. Fine, that is what forums like this are for. Rather than summarily dismissing this, why not offer some reasons? In my view Faried is somewhat of a limited player, great energy and rebounding, but little skill and undersized. Iggy is a nice player but not a centerpiece. Pau provides low post presence missing from the team currently, which just got bounced in the first round. Again. Also, why do you say Iggy is opting out? One year for 16+M? Really?!

Lakers would have to add value to Gasol to get Iggy, Nuggets would laugh the Lakers off the phone if they asked for FAried as well. Gasol does not have close to that kind of value.

That works for my explanation. Really the trade was blatantly one sided in its evaluation of value. Still, it was much better than the Duhon for Kemba trade.

As for Iguodala opting out, he made a bunch of comments about how he would back at the end of March, which coupled with the logic of having more money locked up is why you see stories like this today even:

First the obvious: Forward Andre Iguodala is expected to opt out of the final year of his contract, forgoing $16 million next season in search of a long-term deal even if the money wouldn't rise to the same level on a per-year basis.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_23 ... good-shape

[Wizop]

Gasol is the one player I'd give up Granger to get.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

Gasol is the one player I'd give up Granger to get.

whats the update on Danny's knees?

[Wizop]

Danny had surgery that with hindsight he probably should have had last summer. I don't think the Pacers will move him at a distressed goods price. Gasol isn't that. Lakers medical people would have to approve the deal. we're not looking to make a Bynum deal where someone gets someone who can't play and then becomes a free agent.

[Gideon]

I think Pau is being underestimated by many people. He had one off year (which coincided with injury problems for the first time in his career), but has been a very valuable (and consistent) player for years before that. I guess there's some chance he's actually jumped the shark at this point, but I think it's much more likely he struggled with injuries and just had a tough year and will be more-or-less back to his old form next season.

There's so much emphasis on "what have you done for me lately" on this forum. OKC loses a couple of games (one in OT on the road), and there's a thread about how Westbrook might really be more valuable than Durant. Pau has an injury riddled year with a coach who doesn't use him properly, where he still averages 14-9-4, and many people think he's worthless. Put Pau on a 50+ win team that could use a big man and he could easily be the piece to push that team over the hump to a title imo. When healthy, Pau is an all-star-level player and one of the league's best big men.

[Wizop]

When healthy, Pau is an all-star-level player and one of the league's best big men.

and a healthy Granger isn't chopped liver either. we can afford to give up Granger as we're happy with our starting wings. we love West but he's getting older and Gasol in a three big rotation with West and Hibbert would be an upgrade over Hansbrough and Mahinmi.

we could include Hansbrough in the deal . he's been much better as a starter than a backup and he's a low risk acquisition as he's still in his rookie contract.

[Gideon]

When healthy, Pau is an all-star-level player and one of the league's best big men.

and a healthy Granger isn't chopped liver either. we can afford to give up Granger as we're happy with our starting wings. we love West but he's getting older and Gasol in a three big rotation with West and Hibbert would be an upgrade over Hansbrough and Mahinmi.

we could include Hansbrough in the deal . he's been much better as a starter than a backup and he's a low risk acquisition as he's still in his rookie contract.

I wasn't directly responding to your post about Granger (who I agree is also a valuable player when healthy). I was just making a general comment about the perception of Gasol many posters seem to have.

[The Rebel]

I think Pau is being underestimated by many people. He had one off year (which coincided with injury problems for the first time in his career), but has been a very valuable (and consistent) player for years before that. I guess there's some chance he's actually jumped the shark at this point, but I think it's much more likely he struggled with injuries and just had a tough year and will be more-or-less back to his old form next season.

There's so much emphasis on "what have you done for me lately" on this forum. OKC loses a couple of games (one in OT on the road), and there's a thread about how Westbrook might really be more valuable than Durant. Pau has an injury riddled year with a coach who doesn't use him properly, where he still averages 14-9-4, and many people think he's worthless. Put Pau on a 50+ win team that could use a big man and he could easily be the piece to push that team over the hump to a title imo. When healthy, Pau is an all-star-level player and one of the league's best big men.

It is not about underestimating Gasol, it is about money versus production with future production considerations. Teams are not going to give up value any where close to what you seem to think when a guy is going to be making $21 million in todays NBA when that player has declined for the last 2 consecutive years. A young starting SF, a young prospect that has shown very nice potential, and a young improving big is a better package then the Lakers got for Shaq, and Shaq was still better then Gasol when he was traded.