Noah to Suns

[Knosh]

NotTraxxe above pretty much nailed it. But simply, this is a bad deal for both sides. And yes, of course Noah/McBuckets is a much higher value than Len/Tucker. That's not even debatable, really. But the Suns will still say "no, thank you." Noah would leave right about the time when the Suns would actually need him to compete; plus he'd be 31 by then. Len, on the other hand, will be just 23, with 5 or so years left on the Suns--they will not let him go in RFA.
So all of us Suns' fans aren't "overrating" our players; it's about timing and cost, which NotTraxxe laid out beautifully.

I think that's a very reasonable view, but I don't get the sense that that's what most Suns fans were saying. If Suns fans felt Noah/McBuckets have much higher value and the issue is timing and cost I would expect respones like "Find a 3rd team for Noah and send us a bunch of young guys instead"

So all the non-Suns' fan need to get that notion out of your minds. Only ONE poster in this thread, that I recall, thinks Len will be better than Noah.

Which one?

His ceiling is way higher than Noah has even come close to.

Len has looked like a future Noah minus the passing. But higher ceiling due to his offense potential.

You could make the argument that Len has outplayed Noah this season since Hornacek finally benched Plumlee.

he looks like he can be just as good as a prime Andrew Bogut.

[Fo-Real]

Sipclip isnt a Suns board poster, and you are missing the Suns posters idea, or just ignoring it. THERE IS NO REASON TO TALK ABOUT A TRADE OR EVEN ADDING A THIRD TEAM IF LEN IS REQUITRD TO BE IN THE DEAL. We dont think adding Noah's salary and game gives us a win now piece. Further, a better long term option for us lies in Len. Plus Noah is hurt. That spawned a whole bunch of stupid "Oh... you think he is better... you are a homer" ignorance. Would love Noah on the Suns.... arent ready to give up on the ultra young ultra LONG len.

[NavLDO]

NotTraxxe above pretty much nailed it. But simply, this is a bad deal for both sides. And yes, of course Noah/McBuckets is a much higher value than Len/Tucker. That's not even debatable, really. But the Suns will still say "no, thank you." Noah would leave right about the time when the Suns would actually need him to compete; plus he'd be 31 by then. Len, on the other hand, will be just 23, with 5 or so years left on the Suns--they will not let him go in RFA.
So all of us Suns' fans aren't "overrating" our players; it's about timing and cost, which NotTraxxe laid out beautifully.

I think that's a very reasonable view, but I don't get the sense that that's what most Suns fans were saying. If Suns fans felt Noah/McBuckets have much higher value and the issue is timing and cost I would expect respones like "Find a 3rd team for Noah and send us a bunch of young guys instead"

So all the non-Suns' fan need to get that notion out of your minds. Only ONE poster in this thread, that I recall, thinks Len will be better than Noah.

Which one?

His ceiling is way higher than Noah has even come close to. -- This one.

Len has looked like a future Noah minus the passing. But due to his offense potential. -- OK, so two, but really, he's stated that he looks like a future Noah, though with a deficiency, so I took this to mean that he will be better in one aspect, worse in another.

You could make the argument that Len has outplayed Noah this season since Hornacek finally benched Plumlee. -- This one is simply stating a fact, not a future prognostication. Len has looked better than Noah--this season--as he's coming back from injury, but he never states he think he'll be better than Noah.

he looks like he can be just as good as a prime Andrew Bogut. -- First off, I don't believe sipclip is a Suns' fan, and second, he's not even referencing Noah. If you are assuming that Bogut is somehow better than Noah, well, that's a matter of opinion that not everyone shares.

So, OK, you got me, two poster's made that claim, but the 2nd one is rather iffy, as he's mentioning both a plus and a minus, thus in my mind, canceling each other out, hence why I really felt there was just one.

And let me just add that yes, many Suns' fans overrate their team's players--every fan base does. Not sure if Suns' fans are more guilty of that on this forum--haven't been around long enough to notice, but point is, that is why 9 out of 10 trade scenarios posted on this forum turn into a bunch of bickering. Every fan watches their team more, and more closely than other teams' fans do, so they claim to know better than other posters. It happens--not much you can do about it other than grin and bear it, I guess.

[jbk1234]

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't trade Len for Noah until Noah demonstrates that he can perform at his prior level on a consistent basis. Bulls players scare me because Thibs has a tendency to strip the clutch.

[Knosh]

So, OK, you got me, two poster's made that claim, but the 2nd one is rather iffy, as he's mentioning both a plus and a minus, thus in my mind, canceling each other out, hence why I really felt there was just one.

And let me just add that yes, many Suns' fans overrate their team's players--every fan base does. Not sure if Suns' fans are more guilty of that on this forum--haven't been around long enough to notice, but point is, that is why 9 out of 10 trade scenarios posted on this forum turn into a bunch of bickering. Every fan watches their team more, and more closely than other teams' fans do, so they claim to know better than other posters. It happens--not much you can do about it other than grin and bear it, I guess.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd still take this seasons Noah over this seasons Len. And to me claiming Len is better than Noah, as good as Noah or as good as prime Bogut are all in the same ballpark.

I can't claim that I have watched every Suns game this season, but I caught a few earlier in the season and have actually watched the last three since Phoenix got Wright. And I just don't see Len having anywhere near the defensive impact that Noah or Bogut have. Those guys do much more than just rebound and block shots. All the timing stuff and knowing where to go. Not like you should expect a 21 year old to do all that already, but it's also not like every 7 footer gets to that level either. So if you are comparing him to Noah or Bogut right now, imo you are overrating him.

[NavLDO]

So, OK, you got me, two poster's made that claim, but the 2nd one is rather iffy, as he's mentioning both a plus and a minus, thus in my mind, canceling each other out, hence why I really felt there was just one.

And let me just add that yes, many Suns' fans overrate their team's players--every fan base does. Not sure if Suns' fans are more guilty of that on this forum--haven't been around long enough to notice, but point is, that is why 9 out of 10 trade scenarios posted on this forum turn into a bunch of bickering. Every fan watches their team more, and more closely than other teams' fans do, so they claim to know better than other posters. It happens--not much you can do about it other than grin and bear it, I guess.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd still take this seasons Noah over this seasons Len. And to me claiming Len is better than Noah, as good as Noah or as good as prime Bogut are all in the same ballpark.

I can't claim that I have watched every Suns game this season, but I caught a few earlier in the season and have actually watched the last three since Phoenix got Wright. And I just don't see Len having anywhere near the defensive impact that Noah or Bogut have. Those guys do much more than just rebound and block shots. All the timing stuff and knowing where to go. Not like you should expect a 21 year old to do all that already, but it's also not like every 7 footer gets to that level either. So if you are comparing him to Noah or Bogut right now, imo you are overrating him.

Well, if that's what you believe, that's fine, but to me, those are all different things, and why I phrased what I said the way I did, because yes, a few have compared Len to Noah in saying he's almost or as good as Noah, but as 1UPZ mentioned a few pages back, this is probably the best way to characterize Len, in regards to comparing him to Noah:

I compare Noah 2nd year to Len now and Len is the similar trajectory except he has offensive potential.

But again, two posters have actually said Len was better, or more actually, Len's 'ceiling' is higher, or better, than Noah.

[thamadkant]

Alex Len, in 8 games in January (the best half month of his career obviously):
8.1 points, 9.0 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 2.88 blocks.

Based on those 8 games, he will be better then Dream. Just imagine when he's playing 35 minutes a game!

lol no one mentioned the dream..

But Noah?

yes, Len CAN become Noah-lite by the time he is 23-24 years old... but better shot blocker, worse passer.

His averages for the season is redundant since he was playing 15-20 minutes for the first 20 games or so.

But his numbers in January and the last 10 games have been great!


Noah is better for the Bulls now and whilst they contending..
Len is better for the Suns now and as they rebuild their core for the next 3-4 years or so.

[Hook_Em]

How about Noah and something for Dragic and Plumlee?

How bout Noah for Bledsoe and Plumlee?

[JDLAW]

How about Noah and something for Dragic and Plumlee?

How bout Noah for Bledsoe and Plumlee?

Neither of these make the Suns better now or in the future.

[Revived]

NotTraxxe above pretty much nailed it. But simply, this is a bad deal for both sides. And yes, of course Noah/McBuckets is a much higher value than Len/Tucker. That's not even debatable, really. But the Suns will still say "no, thank you." Noah would leave right about the time when the Suns would actually need him to compete; plus he'd be 31 by then. Len, on the other hand, will be just 23, with 5 or so years left on the Suns--they will not let him go in RFA.
So all of us Suns' fans aren't "overrating" our players; it's about timing and cost, which NotTraxxe laid out beautifully.

I think that's a very reasonable view, but I don't get the sense that that's what most Suns fans were saying. If Suns fans felt Noah/McBuckets have much higher value and the issue is timing and cost I would expect respones like "Find a 3rd team for Noah and send us a bunch of young guys instead"

So all the non-Suns' fan need to get that notion out of your minds. Only ONE poster in this thread, that I recall, thinks Len will be better than Noah.

Which one?

His ceiling is way higher than Noah has even come close to.

Len has looked like a future Noah minus the passing. But higher ceiling due to his offense potential.

You could make the argument that Len has outplayed Noah this season since Hornacek finally benched Plumlee.

he looks like he can be just as good as a prime Andrew Bogut.

Why would we want to find a 3rd team to send us young guys by trading Len?

God how the hell do you not understand this?

LEN IS A YOUNG GUY!!!! LEN IS BETTER THAN ANY YOUNG GUY WE COULD GET BY TRADING NOAH.

[Texas Chuck]

Okay we are done here. I let this go a long time, but we are done here. Nothing more to be gained.