Official (Woj): RJ to Detroit, Kanter to OKC, picks to Utah

[Trader_Joe]

I really don't think Kanter gets a max deal. Who would give it to him?

Also, are the Nets still miffed about how the deadline went down? I'm kind of curious about that.

King said something to the effect he had no time to make another deal so maybe. But last time he had no time and panicked he made the Wallace deal, so thankfully he didn't make a deal.

Fan wise..I think half of us think we dodged a bullet while half wanted RJ.

I did not want RJ at all and preferred Perkins and some combo of Lamb/PJ/Euro/Protected pick...a salary dump with minor prospects. But if we did that we also needed to go all out and move JJ at the same time which we didn't.

I wrote about it in my thread that should be on the first page here.

The only part of me that was bummed was that I would have liked to see Brook on a true contender and you guys would have had a new fan (I wouldn't ditch the Nets just have a new 2nd favorite).

[Amish Mafioso]

Kanter is a big time pick up... if he resigns this summer for something close to reasonable money. My bet (hope?) is an arrangement has already been made.

I think that's extremely unlikely, given that he's going to have pretty much the same issues he had in Utah. Kanter is a nice player, although significantly flawed. His defense and lack of passing ability make him a tough fit for most situations. He wants a ton of money and starter minutes. Maybe winning will cause him to reprioritize, but I doubt it. He has some sketchy people around him giving advice, and right now it seems like they've convinced him he's a superstar and should be treated as such. If someone can help him improve his defense and learn to pass, he'd be terrific player, but I really believe it's more likely that he'll continue to blame his shortcomings on how he's used. OKC had to do something and Kanter will help in the short term, but long term I think this move will prove to be a mistake. As a Jazz fan, I'm disappointed in the return we got, but I'm really glad he's no longer our problem.

[djthesonicsfan]

I think having the defenders around Kanter surely will help, but when they are playing the likes of TD and Gasol, they're going to have to have Adams in or Ibaka play them. If anything they can do what the Nets do with Lopez and let Kanter do his damage against second units from the bench and if the match=up is right or he's play well keep him in. Seems there is plenty of time as Adams can be foul prone, and I think Kanter can play some PF.

This was Funaki's kryptonite early on, but he's gotten a lot better. Seems as if the game is finally slowing down for him.

My initial thoughts are the same as yours in that Kanter should slide in with the second unit. But playing time was his beef in Utah and this is his contract year. He's going to want to start. All this is why I hope Presti and Kanter's camp had an agreement ahead of the trade.

[djthesonicsfan]

Kanter is a big time pick up... if he resigns this summer for something close to reasonable money. My bet (hope?) is an arrangement has already been made.

I think that's extremely unlikely, given that he's going to have pretty much the same issues he had in Utah. Kanter is a nice player, although significantly flawed. His defense and lack of passing ability make him a tough fit for most situations. He wants a ton of money and starter minutes. Maybe winning will cause him to reprioritize, but I doubt it. He has some sketchy people around him giving advice, and right now it seems like they've convinced him he's a superstar and should be treated as such. If someone can help him improve his defense and learn to pass, he'd be terrific player, but I really believe it's more likely that he'll continue to blame his shortcomings on how he's used. OKC had to do something and Kanter will help in the short term, but long term I think this move will prove to be a mistake. As a Jazz fan, I'm disappointed in the return we got, but I'm really glad he's no longer our problem.

We shall see soon enough. As for that character part (winning begets selflessness), the entire RJ episode should be a reminder that leopards don't change their spots. If all this is true I have to doubt the situation will turn out well. On the other hand Presti is a guy who does his homework. I would be surprised if he went into this deal cold.

[bbms]

Didn't actually saw this trade coming. I was expecting Jackson for picks or assets as an usual Presti trade. But that was (at least intended) to be a power move, not a collecting job like Presti was proud to do.

Negative aspects:

1 - I think Jackson has more value than this trade got in return. A (useful) role player and two situational stretch forwards is not what I was expecting for Jackson. Kendrick Perkins and his expiring contract should bring the value of this trade up, but instead brought down, weird.

2 - Thunder threw two first round picks this season loosely on two former prospects that didn't pan out. Now the Thunder has still to bear the developmental process of those two, and lost future draft picks (I don't expect Thunder's pick this year to break protection). If trading picks, trade for players that are easy to plug in your roster. Kanter and Waiters aren't easy to plug

3 - Thunder has still a problem to solve on Kanter. Is his extension going to happen? If not, this seems like a NFL kind of deal that a team allows a vet to play for cheap so they can showcase their ability and hit free agency market. Except we're not talking vets in this deal, we're selling the farm in the draft and we're not even getting compensatory picks in the draft later. Which would totally suck.

4 - Got rid of a egocentric persona in Jackson, but acquired in exchange another egocentric persona in Kanter, which either kills the possibility of the team design to be creative, or the possibility of a totally focused 15-men locker room.

5 - The possibilities of Jones III and Lamb bringing any kind of value - on the court or on the trading block - gets even lower. These two guys are not focused enough on the game and clearly lack the inner fortitude or desire to improve. Similar thing said Seahawks GM John Schneider days ago, when he said he "had mistaken in the past, for looking way to much into athletic ability or potential, and let the love for football aside of the judgement", on a clear look at the 2nd round pick of 2013 Christine Michael. In a similar fashion, seems like Jones and Lamb check the boxes for athletic ability and skill but miss the focus on basketball aspect.

The positive aspects:

1 - Thunder has re-shaped it's offensive frontcourt. Now we have 4 offensive rebounding threats. Ibaka, Kanter, McGary and Adams do well in offensive boards and this should generate offense on its own for next season with Adams and Kanter (if resigns).

2 - Thunder is really in much better shape than it was in the begginning of the season. We're in such an unique position of having 4 capable offensive PF/C (Ibaka, Kanter, McGary and Collison) plus stretch 4s (PJ3, Singler, Novak and Durant) to play. Brooks has all kinds of possibilities to explore on this frontcourt. Too bad he doesn't have the creativity to use that to it's fullest.

3 - DJ Augustin is the type of PG I've always wanted for the Thunder second unit. Plays the pick and roll, can play off a more dynamic guard while being a threat with his outside shooting, looks for open shooter. He's a higher ceiling version of Eric Maynor.

4 - Thunder have been inconsistent with the outside shooting the past three seasons. Singler and Novak might help with that along Morrow.

Overall avaliation:

Not a lateral movement by any means but no ace here too. Raises more question marks than solves, but we get what Presti is trying to do here. He is doing in this trade what he never did and got criticized for not doing - overspending for POWER MOVES. Don't exactly love what Thunder gets in return, but, definitely, quite few moves not involving taking assets in return would make me think it's good. Improves front court, creates space for Waiters to show if he can do more than he's doing and maybe give more space to Lamb without Jackson to play 30 mpg.

It'll be tragic if Waiters still suck and/or Kanter sucks/do not resign. Would be two first round picks for nothing.

Detroit got too much value in return and they should at least put a protected 1st round pick on the block.

Utah makes room for a move in free agency.

[bondom34]

Also, to critics:

Kanter gives OKC its first or second best option on both postups and putbacks.

At 1.17 PPP he's the best on the roster at putbacks and .89 on postups, behind only Ibaka (whose numbers surprised me, he's in the 82nd percentile). His defense is bad, but again, he's young and can possibly be covered by Ibaka/Collison/Adams. His best season was playing alongside Milsap, so to see him play next to another high caliber defensive big may help.

Augustin is exactly what they needed. Someone better than Ish who's on a team friendly contract and willing to play backup PG. He's still reaonsably young and is tight with KD which I'd think would be somewhat nice to have. His TS and 3 point numbers are also better than Jackson, plus he doesn't bring the locker room issues. I'd expect Singler to get minutes and he's starting for KD tonight. That pretty much says it all regarding the depth questions, he's not good, but he's just a better option than anything on the roster.

They gave up RJ, who had less than no desire to be there. A second, and a first that's guaranteed to be after the lotto. Pleiss to me isn't anything special, his ceiling is career backup, and that's a stretch considering his euro numbers aren't very good and he doesn't get many minutes there either. They gave up next to nothing and got stronger in my eyes. So I'm still, days later, thrilled with a move Presti made for the first time in a while.

[Birdie]

Other point of value, OKC under luxury tax. While Brook Lopez would've been nice and shiny, the Kanter deal brought depth and a decent return for Perk's corpse and RJ's disgruntled self.

I think DJ Augustin is gonna be the big pickup that people will regret sleeping on. OKC DESPERATE for a competent floor general that wasn't an attack-first SG trying to be a PG for their 2nd unit.

[HartfordWhalers]

Other point of value, OKC under luxury tax. While Brook Lopez would've been nice and shiny, the Kanter deal brought depth and a decent return for Perk's corpse and RJ's disgruntled self.

I think DJ Augustin is gonna be the big pickup that people will regret sleeping on. OKC DESPERATE for a competent floor general that wasn't an attack-first SG trying to be a PG for their 2nd unit.

OKC is not under the tax. They got stuck over it.

Saying Kanter was for Perk's corpse and RJ ignores the 1st rounder while talking only about the 2nd rounder (RJ's return), includes the 1 year bad salary they dumped while skipping the 2 year bad salary they took in (Novak), and ignores Pleiss, who some OKC fans felt was worth a 1st and reminded them of Splitter.

[bondom34]

Other point of value, OKC under luxury tax. While Brook Lopez would've been nice and shiny, the Kanter deal brought depth and a decent return for Perk's corpse and RJ's disgruntled self.

I think DJ Augustin is gonna be the big pickup that people will regret sleeping on. OKC DESPERATE for a competent floor general that wasn't an attack-first SG trying to be a PG for their 2nd unit.

OKC is not under the tax. They got stuck over it.

Saying Kanter was for Perk's corpse and RJ ignores the 1st rounder while talking only about the 2nd rounder (RJ's return), includes the 1 year bad salary they dumped while skipping the 2 year bad salary they took in (Novak), and ignores Pleiss, who some OKC fans felt was worth a 1st and reminded them of Splitter.

I think this was only dj, and I think he's nuts.

Pleiss in Europe (FYI he's 25, so he's not too young):

12 minutes, 3 rebounds, 4 points. Backup to the great Ante Tomic (2008 draft pick of Utah).

And Novak has less money left overall on his deal than Perk, even w/ the extra year. Plus Singler will be KD's backup, he's the best option on the roster by a good bit.

[HartfordWhalers]

Other point of value, OKC under luxury tax. While Brook Lopez would've been nice and shiny, the Kanter deal brought depth and a decent return for Perk's corpse and RJ's disgruntled self.

I think DJ Augustin is gonna be the big pickup that people will regret sleeping on. OKC DESPERATE for a competent floor general that wasn't an attack-first SG trying to be a PG for their 2nd unit.

OKC is not under the tax. They got stuck over it.

Saying Kanter was for Perk's corpse and RJ ignores the 1st rounder while talking only about the 2nd rounder (RJ's return), includes the 1 year bad salary they dumped while skipping the 2 year bad salary they took in (Novak), and ignores Pleiss, who some OKC fans felt was worth a 1st and reminded them of Splitter.

I think this was only dj, and I think he's nuts.

Pleiss in Europe (FYI he's 25, so he's not too young):

12 minutes, 3 rebounds, 4 points. Backup to the great Ante Tomic (2008 draft pick of Utah).

And Novak has less money left overall on his deal than Perk, even w/ the extra year. Plus Singler will be KD's backup, he's the best option on the roster by a good bit.

Eh, I grabbed the 1st value quote from someone else, but yeah, mostly dj.

In terms of Perkins --
$9,654,342 cap hit this year.
Novak --
$3,445,947 cap hit this year
$3,750,001 next year.

Novak's next year should be more than Perkin's remaining prorated balance. If we are talking a straight swap of bad contracts, I would say that a 1 for 1 deal, I think it might be fair value, although I would argue that the team getting it all over at once now is getting the better end of it.

[bondom34]

OKC is not under the tax. They got stuck over it.

Saying Kanter was for Perk's corpse and RJ ignores the 1st rounder while talking only about the 2nd rounder (RJ's return), includes the 1 year bad salary they dumped while skipping the 2 year bad salary they took in (Novak), and ignores Pleiss, who some OKC fans felt was worth a 1st and reminded them of Splitter.

I think this was only dj, and I think he's nuts.

Pleiss in Europe (FYI he's 25, so he's not too young):

12 minutes, 3 rebounds, 4 points. Backup to the great Ante Tomic (2008 draft pick of Utah).

And Novak has less money left overall on his deal than Perk, even w/ the extra year. Plus Singler will be KD's backup, he's the best option on the roster by a good bit.

Eh, I grabbed the 1st value quote from someone else, but yeah, mostly dj.

In terms of Perkins --
$9,654,342 cap hit this year.
Novak --
$3,445,947 cap hit this year
$3,750,001 next year.

Novak's next year should be more than Perkin's remaining prorated balance. If we are talking a straight swap of bad contracts, I would say that a 1 for 1 deal, I think it might be fair value, although I would argue that the team getting it all over at once now is getting the better end of it.

I can see that, but purely in terms of money only. As weird as it is to say, I can see Novak getting a few minutes and being OK as a spotup shooter. The fit makes a little sense, even if he's bad.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think this was only dj, and I think he's nuts.

Pleiss in Europe (FYI he's 25, so he's not too young):

12 minutes, 3 rebounds, 4 points. Backup to the great Ante Tomic (2008 draft pick of Utah).

And Novak has less money left overall on his deal than Perk, even w/ the extra year. Plus Singler will be KD's backup, he's the best option on the roster by a good bit.

Eh, I grabbed the 1st value quote from someone else, but yeah, mostly dj.

In terms of Perkins --
$9,654,342 cap hit this year.
Novak --
$3,445,947 cap hit this year
$3,750,001 next year.

Novak's next year should be more than Perkin's remaining prorated balance. If we are talking a straight swap of bad contracts, I would say that a 1 for 1 deal, I think it might be fair value, although I would argue that the team getting it all over at once now is getting the better end of it.

I can see that, but purely in terms of money only. As weird as it is to say, I can see Novak getting a few minutes and being OK as a spotup shooter. The fit makes a little sense, even if he's bad.

More minutes than Perk got?

(I'm more bullish on Singler being a nice quiet addition here.)

[Birdie]

My bad, I mispoke. They're not under the tax, they pretty much stayed level at where they were (+2-4mil over? I believe) as opposed to taking on an additional 6-10mil additionally if they had traded for Brook Lopez. So, my bad on that. Doing the Kanter deal was more prudent than getting Lopez is what I wanted to express originally.

Kanter is 8 years younger than Perk, and since the emergence of Steven Adams, has slowly been left to rot on the bench. At a 9.7mil expiring, that is hard to swallow for a bench guy. At vet's minimum, you take Perk in a heartbeat. (TY from Cavs!) They turned that 9.7mil + RJ into 3 productive players in return and maybe Steve Novak (but isn't he getting bought out?). While the 1st, OKC threw in to Utah was a bit questionable (I think a bit of an overpay/unnecessary), OKC is in win now mode. What are they gonna do with a late 20's pick when they have no spots in their rotation to develop that guy. :poors out 40 for Jeremy Lamb/Perry Jones:

I think OKC feels they're set talentwise, if McGary pans out (who could've been a top 10 pick if completely healthy, he was a beast in HS) OKC has their core locked up.

[bondom34]

Eh, I grabbed the 1st value quote from someone else, but yeah, mostly dj.

In terms of Perkins --
$9,654,342 cap hit this year.
Novak --
$3,445,947 cap hit this year
$3,750,001 next year.

Novak's next year should be more than Perkin's remaining prorated balance. If we are talking a straight swap of bad contracts, I would say that a 1 for 1 deal, I think it might be fair value, although I would argue that the team getting it all over at once now is getting the better end of it.

I can see that, but purely in terms of money only. As weird as it is to say, I can see Novak getting a few minutes and being OK as a spotup shooter. The fit makes a little sense, even if he's bad.

More minutes than Perk got?

(I'm more bullish on Singler being a nice quiet addition here.)

Nah (I hope not, but w/ Brooks love of vets ya never know!). I think a few things underrated were the Singler pickup and that Augustin is friends w/ Durant, cheap, and willing to accept his role more than RJ. It mostly matter how you look at it. If you want to say they got screwed by Detroit and got a good deal from Utah, OK, but at the same time I don't think RJ had much value from what I've seen. As well, I'd say this was overall more or less Kanter/Novak for Perk/RJ, which is a wash to slightly better (I don't think either RFA had much value). Then Singler/Augustin/Novak for Jerrett/a late first, plus moving up in the second round probably at some point. They moved Ish Smith for draft considerations too, but not sure what that is other than I'm sure a protected 2nd. But RE: Novak, I'd hope not.

[HartfordWhalers]

I can see that, but purely in terms of money only. As weird as it is to say, I can see Novak getting a few minutes and being OK as a spotup shooter. The fit makes a little sense, even if he's bad.

More minutes than Perk got?

(I'm more bullish on Singler being a nice quiet addition here.)

Nah (I hope not, but w/ Brooks love of vets ya never know!). I think a few things underrated were the Singler pickup and that Augustin is friends w/ Durant, cheap, and willing to accept his role more than RJ. It mostly matter how you look at it. If you want to say they got screwed by Detroit and got a good deal from Utah, OK, but at the same time I don't think RJ had much value from what I've seen. As well, I'd say this was overall more or less Kanter/Novak for Perk/RJ, which is a wash to slightly better (I don't think either RFA had much value). Then Singler/Augustin/Novak for Jerrett/a late first, plus moving up in the second round probably at some point. They moved Ish Smith for draft considerations too, but not sure what that is other than I'm sure a protected 2nd. But RE: Novak, I'd hope not.

2016 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City will receive the less favorable of New Orleans' 2016 2nd round pick and Sacramento's 2016 2nd round pick protected for selections 56-60

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed


Assume Sac is not top 5 in the league (in which case that pick goes to Milwaukee and there is only the NOP pick to be worst of), and go ahead and call it the WoNS 2016 2nd (Worse of Neworleans Sacramento). Everyone wants a draft pick called the Wons.

[bondom34]

More minutes than Perk got?

(I'm more bullish on Singler being a nice quiet addition here.)

Nah (I hope not, but w/ Brooks love of vets ya never know!). I think a few things underrated were the Singler pickup and that Augustin is friends w/ Durant, cheap, and willing to accept his role more than RJ. It mostly matter how you look at it. If you want to say they got screwed by Detroit and got a good deal from Utah, OK, but at the same time I don't think RJ had much value from what I've seen. As well, I'd say this was overall more or less Kanter/Novak for Perk/RJ, which is a wash to slightly better (I don't think either RFA had much value). Then Singler/Augustin/Novak for Jerrett/a late first, plus moving up in the second round probably at some point. They moved Ish Smith for draft considerations too, but not sure what that is other than I'm sure a protected 2nd. But RE: Novak, I'd hope not.

2016 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City will receive the less favorable of New Orleans' 2016 2nd round pick and Sacramento's 2016 2nd round pick protected for selections 56-60

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed


Assume Sac is not top 5 in the league (in which case that pick goes to Milwaukee and there is only the NOP pick to be worst of), and go ahead and call it the WoNS 2016 2nd (Worse of Neworleans Sacramento). Everyone wants a draft pick called the Wons.

I've always liked the WONS...

Spoiler:

Ayyyyyyeeee!

[pacers33granger]

I'm not as high on this trade for OKC as most are, but that's mostly because I see Kanter as another possible problem guy in the locker room. Highly likely he's not as bad as Jackson was there, but I think he's going to get disappointed pretty quick unless winning changes that for him.

I'm not a fan of Augustin, but I think he'll be a nice fit there. He needs to be able to run the show, he can't be a spot up shooter. But I think he'll have that freedom there when he plays. Singler should be a nice bench player for them too. He's nowhere near spectacular but you basically know what you've got with him which still can't be said each night about Lamb/Jones.

[bbms]

As long as Kanter starts I don't think we'll have locker room problems. I got no issue on him starting because here in OKC to be a starter at the PF/C positions always mean't so little, specially when we see starters playing 19-25 MPG. Ibaka will be hiding his weakside.

[bondom34]

FWIW, Kanter had very good things to say about Russ postgame, and Russ really seemed to go out of his way to get him involved. I saw him interacting w/ Adams well on the bench too, and Brooks really likes him. I'm hopeful.

[Ruckusmh]

He's not a bad player given the right situation and I think OKC could bring out the best in him. I think for the Jazz, this was a great trade in that it clears cap for this summer to better balance the roster and the salary that those sectors command given that Gobert and Favors are going to be getting major major minutes.

I think he can set good screens, score in the post, and rebound very effectively. If he is asked to defend the pick and roll he will struggle, and perhaps as he doesn't get 30 minutes every game he will be unhappy, but maybe winning will make up for that. As long as he can embrace his roll as a talented (but somewhat limited by matchup and situation) 20-25 minute player, I think he can really contribute.

He didn't make sense for the Jazz, but I think he could work really well in OKC if he doesn't get a massive offer that is too much to match this summer.