Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[VeritasTri]

I don't think there's a third team out there, because Minny can't offer anything of what anyone would want. At best, they can offer an endless string of firsts to teams to try to grab win-now pieces, but if they are holding onto KAT/Russell/Edwards, they don't have the pieces to add anything to what they'd be buying. That the Wolves are even still having discussions suggests Simmons' value is in the absolute toilet right now.

Its actually the opposite.

The reason a deal directly between the wolves and sixers is difficult is due to both teams wanting to make win now moves which improve their chances to compete starting this season. The third team would be a team in the middle of or about to start a rebuild, who had veteran pieces they would trade for future draft compensation. A team like Orlando, Houston, or Detroit could give up pieces like Ross/Harris/Wood/Grant that could help a team now for draft picks to assist their rebuild.

[TGW]

You need to justify that.

Is Simmons greater value than Harden?

Harden didn’t get a premium youth. Why do Wolves need to up the offer for Simmons?

If the package is 1sts, 3x unprotected and 3-4 swaps is the offer. Plus Wolves can get 76ers win-now talent (not named Dame or Beal but win-now).

It's apples and oranges. Houston was rebuilding and wanted picks. The Sixers, OTOH, don't need picks...they want an all-star calibre player. Unless you can find a third team that wants the poopoo platter, then the Sixers say no. It's that simple.

Of course a third team is needed. See reports today, the thread you are in (for example) and the many threads on TNT (for more examples)!

But let’s be clear:

Harden >> Simmons in value.

Wolves 1sts and Swaps >>> Nets 1sts and Swaps
(Owning 1sts from Timberwolves organization with Towns/Simmons/Russell in West is A LOT different than owning 1sts from KD/Harden/Irving Nets in the East)

And you call that a poopoo plater, but fact is that stinkier and nuttier plater was able to get Harden.

You're not listening. It doesn't matter if the Wolves garbage is better than the garbage Houston got in return for Harden. Philly does not want picks and junk.
If you have a "win now" player the Sixers can get with Minny's poopoo platter, then drop the names. Stop dancing around the value argument.

[Wolveswin]

I don't think there's a third team out there, because Minny can't offer anything of what anyone would want. At best, they can offer an endless string of firsts to teams to try to grab win-now pieces, but if they are holding onto KAT/Russell/Edwards, they don't have the pieces to add anything to what they'd be buying. That the Wolves are even still having discussions suggests Simmons' value is in the absolute toilet right now.

Its actually the opposite.

The reason a deal directly between the wolves and sixers is difficult is due to both teams wanting to make win now moves which improve their chances to compete starting this season. The third team would be a team in the middle of or about to start a rebuild, who had veteran pieces they would trade for future draft compensation. A team like Orlando, Houston, or Detroit could give up pieces like Ross/Harris/Wood/Grant that could help a team now for draft picks to assist their rebuild.

This.

And not sure why a “string of 1sts” is getting so devalued. 3x 1sts and 4x swaps from a KD/Harden/Irving Nets, landed Harden. I don’t see Simmons as Harden value, or a win now piece available worth 3x 1sts and 4x swaps from Towns/Simmons/Russell lead Wolves.

[VeritasTri]

Amazing how the perfect solution to Morey's dilemma as you see it is to trade Simmons to Minnesota for a pile of junk. What a happy coincidence!

The perfect solution is trading for Lillard, you guys should just do that.

Actually Steph Curry would probably fit better with Embiid, you should just do that.

Or just keep him! Im sure you can rattle off 30 other instances where players/coaches threw a guy under the bus, he cut off ties, there openly had discussions of trading him, everybody in the league thinks they will be traded, a player cuts off contact, a player gives a list of potential destinations...then they just didnt trade them and skipped off happily into the sunset.

I will wait.

[Wolveswin]

It's apples and oranges. Houston was rebuilding and wanted picks. The Sixers, OTOH, don't need picks...they want an all-star calibre player. Unless you can find a third team that wants the poopoo platter, then the Sixers say no. It's that simple.

Of course a third team is needed. See reports today, the thread you are in (for example) and the many threads on TNT (for more examples)!

But let’s be clear:

Harden >> Simmons in value.

Wolves 1sts and Swaps >>> Nets 1sts and Swaps
(Owning 1sts from Timberwolves organization with Towns/Simmons/Russell in West is A LOT different than owning 1sts from KD/Harden/Irving Nets in the East)

And you call that a poopoo plater, but fact is that stinkier and nuttier plater was able to get Harden.

You're not listening. It doesn't matter if the Wolves garbage is better than the garbage Houston got in return for Harden. Philly does not want picks and junk.
If you have a "win now" player the Sixers can get with Minny's poopoo platter, then drop the names. Stop dancing around the value argument.

lol at I am the one not listening. You are in a thread about a 3rd team. Almost every Simmons thread on TNT involves a third team. The report today (at top of main page) is about a third team involved.

Not sure why you can’t understand.

[BullyKing]

Amazing how the perfect solution to Morey's dilemma as you see it is to trade Simmons to Minnesota for a pile of junk. What a happy coincidence!

The perfect solution is trading for Lillard, you guys should just do that.

Actually Steph Curry would probably fit better with Embiid, you should just do that.

Or just keep him! Im sure you can rattle off 30 other instances where players/coaches threw a guy under the bus, he cut off ties, there openly had discussions of trading him, everybody in the league thinks they will be traded, a player cuts off contact, a player gives a list of potential destinations...then they just didnt trade them and skipped off happily into the sunset.

I will wait.

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in vague reports. Perhaps I'll wait until Simmons refuses to play, and forfeits his salary, before I entertain your scenario.

[Skybox]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

[BullyKing]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Yeah, I can't say it is not a reasonable offer. But aside from the direction for Philly, I also have the Cleveland aspect a weird fit. Why are they acquiring McDaniels when they already have Allen and now Mobley?

[TGW]

Oh and I don't know why Minnesota even wants Simmons. Simmons more than likely has no interest in the Wolves at all. Reportedly he wants to go to Cali.

[Wolveswin]

McDaniels is too unproven to be worth sexton (to cleveland) at this point imo. Cleveland values sexton like a top 10 pick

That is fair from Cleveland stand point. Wolves value McDaniels as top 10 pick also.

Would either get such in a player for pick trade? Not sure. But to incentivize this deal, Wolves added Beasley (I see > value than LNJ) and 2nds.

[jbent87]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Morey isn't totally opposed to getting cute though either, I don't think. So a huge pick package now, that he can combine with Maxey + Thybulle? later to bring back a superstar Guard he may be intrigued with. That's probably his thinking behind some of the leaked pre-draft asks he was gunning for. Just because Dame isn't available now doesn't mean that will be the case in December/January.

[Wolveswin]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Yeah, I can't say it is not a reasonable offer. But aside from the direction for Philly, I also have the Cleveland aspect a weird fit. Why are they acquiring McDaniels when they already have Allen and now Mobley?

McDaniels is a SF.

[Wolveswin]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Morey isn't totally opposed to getting cute though, either I dont think. So a huge pick package now, that he can combine with Maxey + Thybulle? later to bring back a superstar Guard he may be intrigued with. That's probably his thinking behind some of the leaked pre-draft asks he was gunning for. Just because Dame isn't available now doesn't mean that will be the case in December/January.

This. Very much this.

Morey would monitor Dame, Beal, or other disgruntled star availability.

[Norm2953]

Indeed the solution to Minny ending up with Simmons is through Portland with Dame going to Philly
and assets going from Philly and Minny to Portland.

[Mr Puddles]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

And that is not for you to decide. If you disagree, then PM him or another moderator.

"And that is not for you to decide" OK buddy, maybe slow down a bit lmao, I was simply disagreeing with him.

Anyway, I sincerely apologize for my unruly behavior. As you may know I'm currently nominated for a 2021 RealGM Best Post Award and I hope this digression will not in any way shape or form impede my chances. The last thing I wanted to do is offend the omnipotent gatekeepers of this fine website, commonly referred to as mods. You guys are doing a fine job keeping this site clean of coarse language, and I have the utmost respect for your tiresome efforts. I especially like how you guys write everything in blue, it's easy on the eyes.

[BullyKing]

Value may be there but I don't think PHI is looking for draft capital. They want to contend now.

Yeah, I can't say it is not a reasonable offer. But aside from the direction for Philly, I also have the Cleveland aspect a weird fit. Why are they acquiring McDaniels when they already have Allen and now Mobley?

McDaniels is a SF.

My sense is that he will really be a power forward once his body fills out more. And SF is likely where Okoro ends up though I guess they could run a Garland-Okoro-McDaniels-Mobley-Allen jumbo lineup.

[GoBobs]

76ers don’t want the picks, but they could hold them for a bit to see if dame comes on the market and if not move them for other win now pieces such as Grant, CJ, Hayward, or whoever else they can get.

Simmons is a declining asset for them with headlines coming out that he plans to sit out the season ect. At least the value of picks might not keep declining.

[Wolveswin]

Oh and I don't know why Minnesota even wants Simmons. Simmons more than likely has no interest in the Wolves at all. Reportedly he wants to go to Cali.

Maybe. Also reports he is really buddy buddy with both Towns and Russell.

The broship needs to be real for Wolves to even be mentioned or interested. And they are by all reports, so….

[VDT]

Depends on how uncomfortable Klutch and Simmons are willing to make it. For a team playing for a title, I don’t see Philly willing to have a Harden-like distraction for the entire year.

I expect Morey to eventually bend over one of the two desperate teams- Sac (in a win now deal based around Fox) or Minnesota (in a war chest asset deal for a ton of T-Wolves picks and then wait for the likely implosion in Minnesota that makes those picks like gold and moves Philly to the front of the line for the next disgruntled superstar)

The Sixers are with their back on the wall also, as they need to be competitive right now. They dont have much to gain by a trade that doesnt make them better, or even more makes them worse and conversely they dont have much to lose by rejecting a bad trade and risk Simmons being a distraction. I wouldnt compare him with Harden though. Harden was a superstar, whose window and contract were much shorter. None of these is true for Simmons. The real problem here is that it is tricky to find a Simmons trade that makes sense for everyone.

Minessota's picks or even Fox maybe are not helping the Sixers win now. They might be part of a larger Simmons trade but they are not what the Sixers need right now.

Failing to see how Fox doesn’t help the Sixers win more than an unhappy Simmons does. A T-Wolves deal is a one step back for two steps forward later deal. I think either will be better than the status quo with an unhappy Simmons for the Sixers future title chances

I dont think he helps more than last year's Simmons which is the point from the Sixers point of view. I could see the Sixers go for him or Lillard if nothing else was available and they had to make a trade but i dont think either is ideal.

[Wolveswin]

Yeah, I can't say it is not a reasonable offer. But aside from the direction for Philly, I also have the Cleveland aspect a weird fit. Why are they acquiring McDaniels when they already have Allen and now Mobley?

McDaniels is a SF.

My sense is that he will really be a power forward once his body fills out more. And SF is likely where Okoro ends up though I guess they could run a Garland-Okoro-McDaniels-Mobley-Allen jumbo lineup.

By the time McDaniels fills out and should be PF, Mobley will be filled out and need to be a C. Allen will be expired and hopefully expendable by then (for Cavs sake Mobley is worth the move).