[Woj] Pistons (Bagley)/Bucks (Ibaka)/Kings (DDV+)/Clippers (Hood+)

[The Beam King]

Sacto wins this deal hands down IMO.

They won the other trade too

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

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[buckboy]

They won the other trade too

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

[The Beam King]

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

You get better often through incremental improvements. Sabonis fits the timeline of Fox and even Mitchell. They obviously need to get better still but you have your draft capital to maybe land that 3rd piece. But the roster is more balanced. The roster is more talented. The roster fits together better. Imo I think sabonis will make Fox better by getting him open through better screens and will give a triple threat high post to diversify the offense.

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[SNPA]

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

[LightTheBeam]

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

I'm not disagreeing that the direction may prove to be bad if Fox and Sabonis aren't good enough, Mitchell doesn't progress, and we cant find another true core piece. I advocated for a rebuild as well.

But I think there's a few things you are missing here -

1. Tyrese Haliburton is being so overrated around here. I loved him and rooting for him, hes going to be a good starter in this league. But nobody talked about him like he was some potential future superstar a week ago. I'm curious how much anybody has actually watched him, rather than just occasionally checked box scores. No fault of your own, we can't get a national TV game. Suddenly hes the 2nd coming of Steph Curry mixed with CP3.

2. We have been bad for 15 years, we aren't particularly good at developing talent. Kings fans would happily take a nice stretch of being a playoff team. Shooting for a title isn't really the goal. Agree or disagree as you will, but being the laughing stock isn't fun.

3. Your last point - The Bucks spent years making trades for players like Monte Ellis, JJ Reddick, John Salmons, Stephen Jackson. These guys are hardly comparable to Sabonis, a legit all star and top 5 player at his position.

Honestly I'm glad that the Bucks found Giannis. I rooted hard for you guys last year, hes my favorite non-king. He's also a generational talent. And for every team that finds a Embid/Giannis, theres 10 years of drafting Andrew Boguts, Emeka Okafors, Marvin Bagleys, and jahlil okafors. I hate that when a Philly or Milwaukee gets lucky in the draft, its suddenly easy to build a contender through the draft. This team couldn't afford another 10 years of hitting and missing draft picks.

[sacking123]

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

I'm not disagreeing that the direction may prove to be bad if Fox and Sabonis aren't good enough, Mitchell doesn't progress, and we cant find another true core piece. I advocated for a rebuild as well.

But I think there's a few things you are missing here -

1. Tyrese Haliburton is being so overrated around here. I loved him and rooting for him, hes going to be a good starter in this league. But nobody talked about him like he was some potential future superstar a week ago. I'm curious how much anybody has actually watched him, rather than just occasionally checked box scores. No fault of your own, we can't get a national TV game. Suddenly hes the 2nd coming of Steph Curry mixed with CP3.

2. We have been bad for 15 years, we aren't particularly good at developing talent. Kings fans would happily take a nice stretch of being a playoff team. Shooting for a title isn't really the goal. Agree or disagree as you will, but being the laughing stock isn't fun.

3. Your last point - The Bucks spent years making trades for players like Monte Ellis, JJ Reddick, John Salmons, Stephen Jackson. These guys are hardly comparable to Sabonis, a legit all star and top 5 player at his position.

Honestly I'm glad that the Bucks found Giannis. I rooted hard for you guys last year, hes my favorite non-king. He's also a generational talent. And for every team that finds a Embid/Giannis, theres 10 years of drafting Andrew Boguts, Emeka Okafors, Marvin Bagleys, and jahlil okafors. I hate that when a Philly or Milwaukee gets lucky in the draft, its suddenly easy to build a contender through the draft. This team couldn't afford another 10 years of hitting and missing draft picks.

Agree. But why do you have to go at my man Bogut? There were only 2 players better than him from that draft after hindsight. The #1 guy was pretty good and all though CP3.

[LightTheBeam]

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

I'm not disagreeing that the direction may prove to be bad if Fox and Sabonis aren't good enough, Mitchell doesn't progress, and we cant find another true core piece. I advocated for a rebuild as well.

But I think there's a few things you are missing here -

1. Tyrese Haliburton is being so overrated around here. I loved him and rooting for him, hes going to be a good starter in this league. But nobody talked about him like he was some potential future superstar a week ago. I'm curious how much anybody has actually watched him, rather than just occasionally checked box scores. No fault of your own, we can't get a national TV game. Suddenly hes the 2nd coming of Steph Curry mixed with CP3.

2. We have been bad for 15 years, we aren't particularly good at developing talent. Kings fans would happily take a nice stretch of being a playoff team. Shooting for a title isn't really the goal. Agree or disagree as you will, but being the laughing stock isn't fun.

3. Your last point - The Bucks spent years making trades for players like Monte Ellis, JJ Reddick, John Salmons, Stephen Jackson. These guys are hardly comparable to Sabonis, a legit all star and top 5 player at his position.

Honestly I'm glad that the Bucks found Giannis. I rooted hard for you guys last year, hes my favorite non-king. He's also a generational talent. And for every team that finds a Embid/Giannis, theres 10 years of drafting Andrew Boguts, Emeka Okafors, Marvin Bagleys, and jahlil okafors. I hate that when a Philly or Milwaukee gets lucky in the draft, its suddenly easy to build a contender through the draft. This team couldn't afford another 10 years of hitting and missing draft picks.

Agree. But why do you have to go at my man Bogut? There were only 2 players better than him from that draft after hindsight. The #1 guy was pretty good and all though CP3.

HAHAHHAHA. Bogut was actually a fantastic player. Just not the guy who brings you out the gutter and turns you into a contender. I used him as an example because the Bucks themselves drafted him 1st overall. There was an 8 year gap before they finally got Giannis.

[WAKEANT]

Sacto wins this deal hands down IMO.

They won the other trade too

You're the third person in this thread to say this. I don't get it. The Kings got clowned in the Haliburton deal.

The media and former NBA players clowned the Kings on the Haliburton trade. I think the Kings did OK on the that trade, not nearly as bad as some folks think. The Kings got a young former All-Star, who can score and make plays for others. They lose a playmaking PG in Haliburton who could score on occasion also. Losing Haliburton hurts a little for Kings fans but a frontcourt player (Sabonis) with playmaking ability is a premium skill for a team. Also, the Kings rid themselves of the questionable contract & bad attitude of Buddy Hield without attaching any draft assets.

Former / current NBA players who think they can be GMs --> Lebron........well it worked Year 2... but now

Sean Marks is doing an OK job.

[WAKEANT]

Of course they weren't. I never said they were. Point is you dont trade a 21 year old when you suck before and after. Sabonis is making real money now and is 2 years away from getting another raise. Dreadful.

NOT short sighted! The Kings got rid of player who did not want to be there & has a bad contract for a player in a position of need & an All-Star. Haliburton may or may not be an All-Star someday. Plus, Holiday & Lamb strength the Kings bench.

[WAKEANT]

When you get the best overall player in the trade all the while dumping a contract many viewed as negative without surrender any draft capital. How is that a loss?

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

[The Beam King]

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

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[Prospect Dong]

Has Bagley been humbled enough to get it together? Is Cade enough of a leader and floor general to help him?

We’ll see. But the price was low enough to be worthy of trying.

Yeah, I've always thought Bagley would be an interesting fit on the Griz next to JJJ, and I've always been willing to pay about the consensus price for him. I probably would have liked to do this deal for the Griz with Culver and some minimal incentives. But he'll get a lot more room to stretch himself on the Pistons.

[Prospect Dong]

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

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Drafting Bagley was absolutely not a "swing for the fences". He was viewed as a pretty safe, high floor, #3-5 pick who Vlade inexplicably picked second. The Kings mostly have a string of notionally safe picks who couldn't even hit their theoretical floor, not a lot of failed high stakes gambles...

[buckboy]

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[SNPA]

Because you gave up the youngest and easily the best asset in the deal to become a treadmill team.

I can't believe people think the Kings didn't get screwed here. I mean, I guess I can. Denial is powerful.

I've been a Bucks fan for 45 years. They did the same thing for the last half of it until they got incredibly lucky. I know a crappy move to make the 8th seed when I see it.

This is why Kings fans were upset. It’s direction, not an issue with Sabonis who is an awesome player. People loved Hali and what the longterm looked like with him.

For this to work McNair has to consolidate to find a third star. Holmes/Barnes/picks.

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

Players that come to Sac very often like it. What you are saying is the path for the Kings to get another star is late lotto or early teens picks vs trading Barnes/Holmes/Picks for one. I think the former path is narrower.

[The Beam King]

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Drafting Bagley was absolutely not a "swing for the fences". He was viewed as a pretty safe, high floor, #3-5 pick who Vlade inexplicably picked second. The Kings mostly have a string of notionally safe picks who couldn't even hit their theoretical floor, not a lot of failed high stakes gambles...

Fewwwshhhh...missed the point. The draft is a crapshoot. Always has been. Always will be.

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[Baddy Chuck]

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Drafting Bagley was absolutely not a "swing for the fences". He was viewed as a pretty safe, high floor, #3-5 pick who Vlade inexplicably picked second. The Kings mostly have a string of notionally safe picks who couldn't even hit their theoretical floor, not a lot of failed high stakes gambles...

Fewwwshhhh...missed the point. The draft is a crapshoot. Always has been. Always will be.

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I have no dog in this fight but what is the talk of draft, you didn't trade a pick, you traded a good draft pick .

[The Beam King]

Drafting Bagley was absolutely not a "swing for the fences". He was viewed as a pretty safe, high floor, #3-5 pick who Vlade inexplicably picked second. The Kings mostly have a string of notionally safe picks who couldn't even hit their theoretical floor, not a lot of failed high stakes gambles...

Fewwwshhhh...missed the point. The draft is a crapshoot. Always has been. Always will be.

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I have no dog in this fight but what is the talk of draft, you didn't trade a pick, you traded a good draft pick .

He's talking about developing players. Haliburton is younger so he gets more credit than he deserves for the potential attached to him, meanwhile sabonis is a known commodity and doesn't get the same leeway. Haliburton may or may not develop into what people think. See rookie of the year Tyreke Evans a prime example. A great first year or two doth not a career make.

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[City of Trees]

NO.... the Kings should just draft and DEVELOP, star players rarely want to come (via FA or trade) to play for a small market teams especially ones with the Kings history

Drafting BPA is a good strategy, especially when you find yourself in the lottery ever season. However, the side effect can sometimes lead to logjams at one position (Fox, Hali, Mitchell). The Kings played Hali at SG but it was clear to the entire basketball world his potential to unlock is running the point.

Kings needed to deal one of their three PG's because 1. getting blown out was becoming a regular thing, 2. they tried and failed running a three guard line up out there, and 3. where are the minutes to develop Fox, Hali, and Mitchell?

I have zero doubt in my mind the Kings tried moving Fox first. His value just wasn't something they were willing to sell at a loss. Instead, they sold 120 cents on the dollar for Haliburton (thanks Stormi). Not saying it was the right move, but at least i understand, drafting BPA at one position multiple times will lead to this fork in the road. Personally, i believe the Kings traded away the wrong PG. But, what do you do?

[Prospect Dong]

So they get a 25 year old 2 time all-star on a very good contract and they're suppose to keep swinging for the fences in the draft....helllllooo Marvin Bagley. With our track record. This wad absolutely the right thing to do. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Kings dominated that trade.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

Drafting Bagley was absolutely not a "swing for the fences". He was viewed as a pretty safe, high floor, #3-5 pick who Vlade inexplicably picked second. The Kings mostly have a string of notionally safe picks who couldn't even hit their theoretical floor, not a lot of failed high stakes gambles...

Fewwwshhhh...missed the point. The draft is a crapshoot. Always has been. Always will be.

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Sure. But if that's your point I don't think you made it very well. Struggling teams probably should swing for the fences, but even that can fail really badly. But the Kings mostly didn't do that under Vlade, and Bagley certainly isn't an example of trying and failing. If you want to say "building through the draft is hard", sure. But the other ways are all pretty tough too, especially for a small market without a winning reputation. Nailing one of those pick for an upper-tier all star is probably the best available option, and the one time the Kings had one on the board they picked another guy instead. If they'd stayed at 3rd or whatever, and picked Bagley there, I'd be right there with you about how sometimes even the safe projected pick is a bust. But that isn't what happened here.