Shams: Porzingis to ATL

[brackdan70]

Anyone know the second rounders involved yet?

[Ball4life32]

Anyone know the second rounders involved yet?

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[Scoot McGroot]

Atlanta has been desperate for a true stretch 5 for years. They got a good one here for a pretty affordable price? If KP is healthy for 65+ games, I really like this for them, and it will tell a LOT of where ATLANTA is going forward and if they should be a true rebuild or a reload team.

Its a giant if for KP and JJ to both be healthy for 65+ games

KP last 2 years: 99 GP
JJ last 2 years: 92 GP

Absolutely. And I think the price paid reflects that?

[DarkXaero]

Props to our trio of Celtics fans who worked diligently on Jrue/KP deals. Sad I guess for our handful of Celtics fans who insisted they would never just downgrade on talent to save money. But this was always the right thing to do after Tatum went down.

Not great value for the Nets here unless they just love Mann.

Great deal for Celtics. And good value for the Hawks and a worthwhile gamble in a contract year.

How is this not a great value for Nets? They got a first round pick for taking a contract that's not even a bad one and easily tradeable down the line, and didn't use anything other cap space.

[Texas Chuck]

Props to our trio of Celtics fans who worked diligently on Jrue/KP deals. Sad I guess for our handful of Celtics fans who insisted they would never just downgrade on talent to save money. But this was always the right thing to do after Tatum went down.

Not great value for the Nets here unless they just love Mann.

Great deal for Celtics. And good value for the Hawks and a worthwhile gamble in a contract year.

How is this not a great value for Nets? They got a first round pick for taking a contract that's not even a bad one and easily tradeable down the line, and didn't use anything other cap space.

Yeah if the Nets like Mann its fine. I don't think he's anything special so for me he's just a playable line item and that pick isn't great value for 3 years.

If they think he can be part of the next good Nets team or provide some leadership/intangibles to the young players coming in, its fine.

Hence me saying its not great unless they like the player. You like the player, so you are happy. I'm underwhelmed by the player so I don't think its great.

[brackdan70]

Props to our trio of Celtics fans who worked diligently on Jrue/KP deals. Sad I guess for our handful of Celtics fans who insisted they would never just downgrade on talent to save money. But this was always the right thing to do after Tatum went down.

Not great value for the Nets here unless they just love Mann.

Great deal for Celtics. And good value for the Hawks and a worthwhile gamble in a contract year.

How is this not a great value for Nets? They got a first round pick for taking a contract that's not even a bad one and easily tradeable down the line, and didn't use anything other cap space.

Yeah if the Nets like Mann its fine. I don't think he's anything special so for me he's just a playable line item and that pick isn't great value for 3 years.

If they think he can be part of the next good Nets team or provide some leadership/intangibles to the young players coming in, its fine.

Hence me saying its not great unless they like the player. You like the player, so you are happy. I'm underwhelmed by the player so I don't think its great.

If they didn’t already have all the picks in the draft I think getting 22 for taking on an ok player on an Ok contract would be nice

[Devilanche]

Would they actually renounced him ? With the current trades that they made they might . I don’t see them trying to be the will be effective in 2 seasons time .

I'll admit I don't know the rules on this but could they renounce him and give him 3yr $9 million?

They don’t need to renounce him, it wouldn’t save any money, outside of cap space they’ll never see. Shouldn’t impact their tax amount at all.

But I would guess he prefers to either retire or look at a new team that will be contending though? I guess he might just want to finish off in Boston but seems like he should want to go to a contender to finish up a great career. Boston could/should give him Udonis treatment I guess if he wants it.

OKC should look at him if he’s on the move to a contender. Chet could do well with a mentor, and Horford need to play like 40-50 games in the regular season

[Daddy 801]

Hawks paid the 22nd pick to dump Mann's 45M? Was it really that bad? I suppose part of it is they valued Porzingis as well?

People aren’t taking into account how truly cost prohibitive the new CBA is compared to the old CBA. It’s going to cost more to dump bad contracts. Myslef and others have been preaching the ramifications of the new CBA on dumping players and I don’t think some have realized how different of a climate it truly is.

Having said that…this particular trade even surprises me.

[Mavrelous]

Boston fleeced in both deals IMO...
They got positive value for both players when they are negative value.
ATL is puzzling, they traded an expiring (1.5 years left) and 3 seconds to get Mann, not they pay to dump him 4 months later? Unclear what the rationale was, it's not like he played bad for them.
Nets angle is also unclear here...

[The-Power]

The Nets now got 5 1st round picks in this year's draft. This tells me that they're ether going to try to move up or use those picks on a superstar.

Those aren't the picks that land you a superstar. But I can definitely see the Nets trying to move up and flip one or two FRPs for future picks. Some teams will try to trade into the draft and should be willing to offer a '26 or '27 FRP.

[djFan71]

Boston fleeced in both deals IMO...
They got positive value for both players when they are negative value.
ATL is puzzling, they traded an expiring (1.5 years left) and 3 seconds to get Mann, not they pay to dump him 4 months later? Unclear what the rationale was, it's not like he played bad for them.
Nets angle is also unclear here...

Stevens is really good, but the main part of it is that they weren’t actually negative value. Both had lists of teams wanting to trade for them and the top offers were positive for both. The argument that they’re overpaid or health risks is still valid, sure, but their on court contributions outweighed that. I don’t see how stating their value is negative holds up in the face of not just the final trades, but the interest from multiple teams.

[Mavrelous]

Boston fleeced in both deals IMO...
They got positive value for both players when they are negative value.
ATL is puzzling, they traded an expiring (1.5 years left) and 3 seconds to get Mann, not they pay to dump him 4 months later? Unclear what the rationale was, it's not like he played bad for them.
Nets angle is also unclear here...

Stevens is really good, but the main part of it is that they weren’t actually negative value. Both had lists of teams wanting to trade for them and the top offers were positive for both. The argument that they’re overpaid or health risks is still valid, sure, but their on court contributions outweighed that. I don’t see how stating their value is negative holds up in the face of not just the final trades, but the interest from multiple teams.

I had interest in Jrue, I even proposed deal to get him to Dallas, he's a really good player, and a better persin, but his performance last year are pointing strongly to downward trajectory, so the payment should be with that in mind.
Was never a believer in KP.

[zimpy27]

Boston fleeced in both deals IMO...
They got positive value for both players when they are negative value.
ATL is puzzling, they traded an expiring (1.5 years left) and 3 seconds to get Mann, not they pay to dump him 4 months later? Unclear what the rationale was, it's not like he played bad for them.
Nets angle is also unclear here...

Stevens is really good, but the main part of it is that they weren’t actually negative value. Both had lists of teams wanting to trade for them and the top offers were positive for both. The argument that they’re overpaid or health risks is still valid, sure, but their on court contributions outweighed that. I don’t see how stating their value is negative holds up in the face of not just the final trades, but the interest from multiple teams.

I had interest in Jrue, I even proposed deal to get him to Dallas, he's a really good player, and a better persin, but his performance last year are pointing strongly to downward trajectory, so the payment should be with that in mind.
Was never a believer in KP.

I thought KP was distinctly positive value.

I think Jrue was negative though. That deal surprised me.

[Mavrelous]

Stevens is really good, but the main part of it is that they weren’t actually negative value. Both had lists of teams wanting to trade for them and the top offers were positive for both. The argument that they’re overpaid or health risks is still valid, sure, but their on court contributions outweighed that. I don’t see how stating their value is negative holds up in the face of not just the final trades, but the interest from multiple teams.

I had interest in Jrue, I even proposed deal to get him to Dallas, he's a really good player, and a better persin, but his performance last year are pointing strongly to downward trajectory, so the payment should be with that in mind.
Was never a believer in KP.

I thought KP was distinctly positive value.

I think Jrue was negative though. That deal surprised me.

You need to remember that KP played 5 seasons on PO team, 3 on Dallas and 2 on Boston, and never had a healthy PO, while missing a lot of RS games, this sample size can not be ignored.

[djFan71]

I had interest in Jrue, I even proposed deal to get him to Dallas, he's a really good player, and a better persin, but his performance last year are pointing strongly to downward trajectory, so the payment should be with that in mind.
Was never a believer in KP.

I thought KP was distinctly positive value.

I think Jrue was negative though. That deal surprised me.

You need to remember that KP played 5 seasons on PO team, 3 on Dallas and 2 on Boston, and never had a healthy PO, while missing a lot of RS games, this sample size can not be ignored.

I definitely get the argument for why they could have been viewed as negative (tho Jrue I quibble and think he bounces back), but I guess I thought the actual trades would change the thinking a little. But, ultimately it doesn't matter I guess. If you think both were bad deals for the non-BOS trades, that's fair. They were pretty inline with what I expected - even proposed the ATL one, though I'm surprised they got 22 out of them without sending 28. POR I didn't think of, but the value was about where I was, within reason.

[Threezus]

Props to our trio of Celtics fans who worked diligently on Jrue/KP deals. Sad I guess for our handful of Celtics fans who insisted they would never just downgrade on talent to save money. But this was always the right thing to do after Tatum went down.

Not great value for the Nets here unless they just love Mann.

Great deal for Celtics. And good value for the Hawks and a worthwhile gamble in a contract year.

How is this not a great value for Nets? They got a first round pick for taking a contract that's not even a bad one and easily tradeable down the line, and didn't use anything other cap space.

Yeah if the Nets like Mann its fine. I don't think he's anything special so for me he's just a playable line item and that pick isn't great value for 3 years.

If they think he can be part of the next good Nets team or provide some leadership/intangibles to the young players coming in, its fine.

Hence me saying its not great unless they like the player. You like the player, so you are happy. I'm underwhelmed by the player so I don't think its great.

I don't think he is a bad player honestly but i can 100% say he didn't fit well on the Hawks team at all nor with Snyders schemes. He was pretty rough with us for the most part even though his numbers weren't bad but when on the court the team just struggled it felt like alot for some reason. Which is why i think we were so willing to give up a pick to clear that future cap for a better player later maybe.

[cl2117]

Pretty happy with this outcome. ATL giving up #22 is a surprise and I'm a little disappointed the C's didn't manage to send #28 to BKN instead of #22 but that's obviously getting greedy. If he sticks around Niang will be fun to have around for a year but as an expiring with some on court value maybe he gets dumped elsewhere down the line for more savings to an injury ravaged team or something.

It's an interesting deal for Atlanta. I kind of love KP's fit there and the East is going to be really weak next year so it's a fun swing at a relatively low price.

I don't mind the value for Brooklyn, the obvious question is just what are you going to do with all those picks? I like Mann as a plug and play replacement level shooting guard. Does a little bit of everything, not elite at any one thing, but solid and fits next to most other players. $15m over 3 years is rich for that kind of guy, but if they're not too precious about what they get back I think they could eventually trade him down to expirings in the next year or two.

C's are only like $12.5m over the tax, curious to see if they keep wheeling and dealing to cut their way past that line.

[zimpy27]

I thought KP was distinctly positive value.

I think Jrue was negative though. That deal surprised me.

You need to remember that KP played 5 seasons on PO team, 3 on Dallas and 2 on Boston, and never had a healthy PO, while missing a lot of RS games, this sample size can not be ignored.

I definitely get the argument for why they could have been viewed as negative (tho Jrue I quibble and think he bounces back), but I guess I thought the actual trades would change the thinking a little. But, ultimately it doesn't matter I guess. If you think both were bad deals for the non-BOS trades, that's fair. They were pretty inline with what I expected - even proposed the ATL one, though I'm surprised they got 22 out of them without sending 28. POR I didn't think of, but the value was about where I was, within reason.

Sending players to capspace comes with a steep premium prior to free agency. After the dust settles I think Boston could have made this trade and received more value with less value to Nets.

[basketballwacko2]

I'll admit I don't know the rules on this but could they renounce him and give him 3yr $9 million?

I believe if they renounce him they could re-sign him using an exception like the BAE or MLE.

Why would they do that? They have the bird rights on Horford.

They could renounce him to get his cap hold off the books. And resign him later I think. As I said I'm not sure of the rules on it.

[basketballwacko2]

They don’t need to renounce him, it wouldn’t save any money, outside of cap space they’ll never see. Shouldn’t impact their tax amount at all.

But I would guess he prefers to either retire or look at a new team that will be contending though? I guess he might just want to finish off in Boston but seems like he should want to go to a contender to finish up a great career. Boston could/should give him Udonis treatment I guess if he wants it.

Horford is too good and has made too much money to want to end up as the team clown like Udonis.

I really don’t understand what this response is. No one compared the on court talent of the two and no one should..

But Udonis is not a team clown. He is loved by the organization and the city. And is taken care of by them both still.

And I’d assume Boston would happily give him a 2 year deal this offseason understanding he probably plays 40 games this lost season and might choose to retire after it.

I would want my team to do that for a player like him.

He made $9.5 million for 2025-26 my idea was to give him a 3 yr deal with $9-10 million total to keep him on the team if he wants to stay he gets guaranteed money stretched out 3 yrs and still can play.