Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0

[Texas Chuck]

Shams and Woj both reporting Barton is opting out. Must feel like he has Denver over a barrel with their guard situation because I can't imagine he gets $15M anywhere else.

Almost 31, so maybe opting out of 1/15 in hopes for a 4/50 or something?

I'd hate so much to be the team who gave him that.

[loserX]

Either way, Barton's opt-out takes a big arrow out of Denver's trade quiver pre-draft. He'd have made a nice salary filler; now it would have to be an S&T with all the complications that come with that, not least of which is his participation.

[Scoot McGroot]

Shams and Woj both reporting Barton is opting out. Must feel like he has Denver over a barrel with their guard situation because I can't imagine he gets $15M anywhere else.

Almost 31, so maybe opting out of 1/15 in hopes for a 4/50 or something?

I'd hate so much to be the team who gave him that.

I certainly don’t disagree.

[psman2]

Shams and Woj both reporting Barton is opting out. Must feel like he has Denver over a barrel with their guard situation because I can't imagine he gets $15M anywhere else.

I might flirt with bringing Barton back to Memphis if the money/years are OK. Something like a 3/45 declining contract with a 3rd year only 3m GTD is something I could live with if a better FA doesn't look interested, more like option H but still something I would consider.

He would be our sixth man and prevent us from overpaying other FA that might not be worth it. Denver could make it a SNT to get a TPE to work with too.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[basketballwacko2]

Also says Houston has dangled one of their late first with EG for thirteen and...

pick #13 or a pick in the 13th round?

13 is Indiana . They either have very good rapport with each other to joke like that or houston has went off the rail.

I'd be very upset if that went down. Houston has to take Lamb, #13 and Aaron Holiday if it's Gordon and I'm wanting both late picks and a future 2nd at least. Gordon is a bad contract. I'd send Lamb + $4 million and 13 for Tate and the 2 late picks.

[basketballwacko2]

Goes to show you even with the resurgence of centers in the NBA, the Americans are pretty light. I'd have rather seen Plumlee who I believe has been in the system in the past? go as he seems tailor made for international games.

Good point Chuck, but who wants to go play in the Olympics after the season they just endured? 72 games from just before the first of the year to may and june plus more games for the playoff teams players.

[MoneyTalks41890]

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[eminence]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

[Godaddycurse]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

should be fine with the #1 pick since Cade is consensus (i think the problem is you can't be sure the pick is whom the other team likes)

[Texas Chuck]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

None. Now you can draft a player and trade the rights to that player as part of a S&T but you certainly can't be selecting a player for another team in a wink/wink deal because now you have clearly violated tampering rules where you've already reached an agreement with the free agent.

The simplest way to understand this concept is that the draft occurs before you can legally speak to free agents so any prearranged agreement de facto means tampering occurred.

[eminence]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

None. Now you can draft a player and trade the rights to that player as part of a S&T but you certainly can't be selecting a player for another team in a wink/wink deal because now you have clearly violated tampering rules where you've already reached an agreement with the free agent.

The simplest way to understand this concept is that the draft occurs before you can legally speak to free agents so any prearranged agreement de facto means tampering occurred.

Makes sense, so would generally need to hope you got somebody the other squad liked. Thanks guys!

[zimpy27]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

Well, the date that FA players can be signed and then traded happens after the draft picks have already been selected, so that would be impossible.

You can trade a recently selected draft player with a signed FA.

So a team may select for another team with the plan to trade with them at a later point, but it's risky. There's no certainty to the deal and no recourse if other team doesn't follow along because it breaks tampering rules.

[Scoot McGroot]

What's the scenario where S&T deals work with current year draft picks? I know it's difficult but are there scenarios where it does work?

None. Now you can draft a player and trade the rights to that player as part of a S&T but you certainly can't be selecting a player for another team in a wink/wink deal because now you have clearly violated tampering rules where you've already reached an agreement with the free agent.

The simplest way to understand this concept is that the draft occurs before you can legally speak to free agents so any prearranged agreement de facto means tampering occurred.

Makes sense, so would generally need to hope you got somebody the other squad liked. Thanks guys!

Yes. But you’d also have to be able to convince the NBA beyond any reasonable doubt that it was just pure coincidence that you selected exactly whomever the other team wanted in the S&T. Too much coincidence in something like this could still get your servers and cell phones impounded by the league for a deep investigation.

[Mike lorenzo]

None. Now you can draft a player and trade the rights to that player as part of a S&T but you certainly can't be selecting a player for another team in a wink/wink deal because now you have clearly violated tampering rules where you've already reached an agreement with the free agent.

The simplest way to understand this concept is that the draft occurs before you can legally speak to free agents so any prearranged agreement de facto means tampering occurred.

Makes sense, so would generally need to hope you got somebody the other squad liked. Thanks guys!

Yes. But you’d also have to be able to convince the NBA beyond any reasonable doubt that it was just pure coincidence that you selected exactly whomever the other team wanted in the S&T. Too much coincidence in something like this could still get your servers and cell phones impounded by the league for a deep investigation.

There was not a similar situation with the transfer of Wood to Houston, Covington to Blazers and Pistons selection to S.Bey ..? Wood was a free agent ... wasn't he?

[chrbal]

Makes sense, so would generally need to hope you got somebody the other squad liked. Thanks guys!

Yes. But you’d also have to be able to convince the NBA beyond any reasonable doubt that it was just pure coincidence that you selected exactly whomever the other team wanted in the S&T. Too much coincidence in something like this could still get your servers and cell phones impounded by the league for a deep investigation.

There was not a similar situation with the transfer of Wood to Houston, Covington to Blazers and Pistons selection to S.Bey ..? Wood was a free agent ... wasn't he?

Stewart not Bey. Pistons Rockets agreed to trade 16 to Detroit for a future first with varying protections. It was later edited to become a sign and trade, with the protections changed to in Detroit’s favor. It was odd, but if something was done illegally they both worked hard to make it seem lik It wasn’t.

[HartfordWhalers]

Yes. But you’d also have to be able to convince the NBA beyond any reasonable doubt that it was just pure coincidence that you selected exactly whomever the other team wanted in the S&T. Too much coincidence in something like this could still get your servers and cell phones impounded by the league for a deep investigation.

There was not a similar situation with the transfer of Wood to Houston, Covington to Blazers and Pistons selection to S.Bey ..? Wood was a free agent ... wasn't he?

Stewart not Bey. Pistons Rockets agreed to trade 16 to Detroit for a future first with varying protections. It was later edited to become a sign and trade, with the protections changed to in Detroit’s favor. It was odd, but if something was done illegally they both worked hard to make it seem lik It wasn’t.

I don’t believe the protections were made better for Detroit.
If I recall correctly, Houston did not need the sign and trade, they had the cap space and could have signed Wood outright to the deal he signed.
Detroit on the other hand needed the sign and trade to sign other free agents.

[chrbal]

There was not a similar situation with the transfer of Wood to Houston, Covington to Blazers and Pistons selection to S.Bey ..? Wood was a free agent ... wasn't he?

Stewart not Bey. Pistons Rockets agreed to trade 16 to Detroit for a future first with varying protections. It was later edited to become a sign and trade, with the protections changed to in Detroit’s favor. It was odd, but if something was done illegally they both worked hard to make it seem lik It wasn’t.

I don’t believe the protections were made better for Detroit.
If I recall correctly, Houston did not need the sign and trade, they had the cap space and could have signed Wood outright to the deal he signed.
Detroit on the other hand needed the sign and trade to sign other free agents.

Seemed like it was only rumored, so yeah probably never edited. (Edit-nevermind look below at k_chiles post)

But it did go from the picks being separate trades to suddenly getting combined for some reason.

[penbeast0]

Goes to show you even with the resurgence of centers in the NBA, the Americans are pretty light. I'd have rather seen Plumlee who I believe has been in the system in the past? go as he seems tailor made for international games.

Good point Chuck, but who wants to go play in the Olympics after the season they just endured? 72 games from just before the first of the year to may and june plus more games for the playoff teams players.

I think a Plumlee would probably be honored enough by the recognition of his game to go. I think it's just that whoever is selecting is one of those people who believe that scoring is at least 50% of the game of basketball rather than just one of the many factors that go into winning.

[K_chile22]

There was not a similar situation with the transfer of Wood to Houston, Covington to Blazers and Pistons selection to S.Bey ..? Wood was a free agent ... wasn't he?

Stewart not Bey. Pistons Rockets agreed to trade 16 to Detroit for a future first with varying protections. It was later edited to become a sign and trade, with the protections changed to in Detroit’s favor. It was odd, but if something was done illegally they both worked hard to make it seem lik It wasn’t.

I don’t believe the protections were made better for Detroit.
If I recall correctly, Houston did not need the sign and trade, they had the cap space and could have signed Wood outright to the deal he signed.
Detroit on the other hand needed the sign and trade to sign other free agents.

Nope, rockets were way over the cap and the protections were made better for Detroit. It was definitely a stinky transaction, especially because the first trade made little sense. I kinda think it was tampering. Especially because the way his contract broke as being 3/$27M but that got shut down and he later signed with them for real at a bigger number. Makes me think they agreed to a number before everything started, then he saw how much dudes like Grant and Plumlee were getting and wanted more


Edit: protections originally were reported to be 16/16/16/16/10/10/9
And were modified to be 16/16/18/18/13/11/9