Toronto & Atlanta

[HomieOmey]

Calderon & Sonny Weems for Bibby & Marvin Williams

Why for ATL? They save $3 mill (not sure if it helps get Shaq) and get a slight upgrade at PG. Calderon is a better shooter and more willing passer, which should help with team unity while getting them to play less one on one ball. Sonny was actually comparable to Marvin Williams last season and that's with almost half the minutes.

Why for Toronto? They get Bibby who they probably just move to Indiana or wherever they can for an ending deal. The main purpose of getting him is to get a smaller deal that they can trade with more ease than Calderon. MArvin gives them a decent starting SF who can run with DeRozan and Amir.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Atlanta doesn't want Calderon at all, the guy is useless there with Bibby and Teague both being better PG's. I mean what does he bring? Nothing! They have both Crawfords at the 2 as well as Mo Evans and Joe Johnson at the 2/3 as well where does Weems fit?

Easy yes from Toronto easy hell no from Atlanta

[tiderulz]

Atlanta doesn't want Calderon at all, the guy is useless there with Bibby and Teague both being better PG's. I mean what does he bring? Nothing! They have both Crawfords at the 2 as well as Mo Evans and Joe Johnson at the 2/3 as well where does Weems fit?

Easy yes from Toronto easy hell no from Atlanta

you saw the part where Bibby was included in the trade and went to Toronto, right?

[Mr Swagtastic]

Atlanta doesn't want Calderon at all, the guy is useless there with Bibby and Teague both being better PG's. I mean what does he bring? Nothing! They have both Crawfords at the 2 as well as Mo Evans and Joe Johnson at the 2/3 as well where does Weems fit?

Easy yes from Toronto easy hell no from Atlanta

you saw the part where Bibby was included in the trade and went to Toronto, right?

Yeah I was making the point that Bibby is more valuable then Calderon ever will be to Atlanta. Marvin is a hell of a better player then Weems and Bibby is better then Calderon what exactly does this do for Atlanta? Except move Williams' contract? If that was their objective I am sure Cleveland would best it by offering part of their TPE for Williams straight up and do a Mo Williams for Bibby swap. Give Atlanta pure raw cap space with Williams and a equal type of player in Williams to Bibby who would work well with Joe Johnson.

[Morris_Shatford]

I have to question what Marvin's value around the league actually is when he is being tied to a S&T for Shaq...

[HomieOmey]

I just like Calderon more for ATL than Bibby. All the team does is play one on one basketball. Calderon is more unselfish, a much more willing passer. I think he gets the team playing more like a team. He's a better shooter than Bibby too, which makes him a better option for Joe Johnson to pass out to.

From the Shaq-Marvin Williams rumors I figured ATL was ok pretty much getting rid of Marvin. This deal at least gives them a super cheap replacement for Marvin, and someone I consider an upgrade to Bibby. I just wasn't sure if it freed up enough money to land Shaq - which very well could be the breaker. I basically thought that Shaq + Weems + Calderon > Shaq + Bibby.

I'm sure the deal could be changed to get ATL a trade exception though.

[tiderulz]

Yeah I was making the point that Bibby is more valuable then Calderon ever will be to Atlanta....... Bibby is better then Calderon

I'm sorry, got stuck on this 'Bibby better than Calderon' comment. Last i saw from Bibby, Jameer Nelson was abusing him as a turnstile during the playoffs. During the Mil series, he averaged more rebounds than assists, not usually a good sign for a starting PG. I'm not a fan of either team, though i live in Atlanta. But from what i have seen, Calderon is much better than Bibby, he can actually create for his team, he isnt just a spot up shooter.

[VintaGe36]

Let's be real, if Atlanta want's to contend and be serious, neither Bibby or Calderon will cut it at PG.

[HomieOmey]

Let's be real, if Atlanta want's to contend and be serious, neither Bibby or Calderon will cut it at PG.

Because Fisher and Rafer are so much better? There aren't too many "championship" level PG's out there. The elite PG's never win titles anyways. It wasn't until Boston's big three showed their age that Rondo was even classified as a top 4 PG. Billups is probably the best PG to win in a while, but he had four other starters just as good.

I guess they might be able to get Tony Parker or Hinrich if they're giving up Marvin Williams. Doubt they would want to pay Hinrich, Bibby, and Crawford though.

[VintaGe36]

For all intended purposes, Kobe Bryant is the PG on the Lakers.

[HomieOmey]

For all intended purposes, Kobe Bryant is the PG on the Lakers.

Kind of like Joe Johnson for the Hawks.

[VintaGe36]

Except Kobe is a legit ball-handler and distributor, and Joe Johnson is a jumpshooting ISO player? Sure.


EDIT: That isn't completely true, Joe Johnson does dish out assists, but Kobe is a bonafide superstar and the type of player who could use a complimentary guard like Fisher,Blake, Calderon or Bibby.

Joe Johnson is not, even if he is paid like one, and that's the point I was trying to make.

[HomieOmey]

Except Kobe is a legit ball-handler and distributor, and Joe Johnson is a jumpshooting ISO player? Sure.


EDIT: That isn't completely true, Joe Johnson does dish out assists, but Kobe is a bonafide superstar and the type of player who could use a complimentary guard like Fisher,Blake, Calderon or Bibby.

Joe Johnson is not, even if he is paid like one, and that's the point I was trying to make.

So who do you think is even remotely available?

I doubt they can get a better play maker and shooter than Calderon. I like Hinrich more, I just dont know what kind of deal Washington can offer. He hasn`t shown anything to put him a whole level above the guys you mentioned either though.

But anyways, this is all useless banter. I`m not even sure if this frees up more cash for Shaq or not, and that`s basically the point of this thread: Shaq + Weems + Calderon is better than having just Shaq and Bibby. I dont even know how real the Shaq rumors are