RealGM

Typically you got a post up/slasher guy and a off ball shooter.

Horford doesnt stretch the floor against length and while he looks "robotic" he has some of the same advanced post moves that Tim Duncan has he just doesn't have the same "freakish" size and length to finish and shoot over guys and he can't get a good look at the rim.

Rebounding wise and floor balance wise Motiejunas and Josh Smith would be perfect compliments.

sf- Smith inside (out to 17 feet) drive and kick to Motiejunas
pf- Motie outside (out to 3 pt range) can post up, face up and elevate or beat guys off dribble next.

Smith and Horford are never on the same side on offense, the spacing is just bad.

so either
A) trade Josh Smith build with Al:
get a
+ sf 3 point shooter next to Al (not named Marvin Williams)
+ c bolsters Pachulia and better threat than Collins
- has to take pressure off Al on defense, draw double teams etc.

This is impossible to get a Premium center AND a quality SF to replace Marvin Williams which is why almost every Hawks Josh Smith trade that comes up has a hail mary draft pick in it.

The best trade structure wise people have come up with is c- Kaman (injuries,age) and Aminu -sf and both are not efficient on offense.

B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins

....
option A: Josh for SF + C

Suggested (shooter+Horford+center) Trade Proposals
1A) ...

....


option B: Al for PF + C

Suggested (Smith+shooter+center) Trade Proposals
1B)
Josh Smith+Motiejunas: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jx2csd

2B)
Smith+Andersen+Dwight: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=3wllsco
- Otis Smith guts Orlando and appeases Hawks fans

I don't think ATL is going to cash out and trade down talent-wise. If they would, this wouldn't be terrible value, but none of these guys are elite prospects, yet they get an elite 25yo player in return. That almost never happens.

OK...

but in the halfcourt they rarely hook up and aren't really compatible spacing wise.

Going forward in the playoffs how do would you gameplan around Al?

guys like Smith are rather simple to create a motion offense that translates to playoffs.
He and Joe post up and you surround them with shooters. The fact that Motiejunas can post up, face up, drive and hit fadeaways over smaller guys in the pivot area like Josh only makes it that much better and diverse.

As far as "elite" prospects, Thabeet and Hill have posted some elite #s. Motivation and team fit is their problem.

^

I actually think that Motiejunas is the least tradable player on the Rockets' roster, at least as long as McHale is coaching there. Allegedly, Donatas was his call, and the Celtic legend sees himself in the youngster.

The closest that you will get to that kind of a player is Bargnani, which is a trade I feel needs to be made. IMO, TOR are better off using Davis and Amir at PF while trading Andrea to fill their SF void, and Jonas is their franchise C of the future. Meanwhile, I don't think Marvin will ever fulfill his potential in ATL. This deal seems ideal for both sides:

Bargs/Kleiza for Marv/Zaza

hate his slow feet helps results in rebounding 10% of all boards and he doesnt make up for it in other areas.

But he is a zone buster and has some good traits

Been done before,

Marvin Gaye blocks young talent and stymies Raptors draft plans.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1128551&start=30

If I'm Atlanta, I trade Horford and NO WAY do I trade Smith.....

... Horford NEVER, EVER shows up in the Playoffs, he's supposed to be a "star"? Trade him while he has value... Josh creates mismatches against every team in the league and can hold his own on the defensive end against 99% of the league....

Trade Horford for Gasol and ATL is the new Eastern Elite.

Gasol is a force but...

Gasol is 30yo, seemed noncomittal or something in the playoffs
and has shown he is better starting at PF for rebounds then playing some center with Odom off the bench. maybe in the East its different but I dont see how.

who plays center? Similar to a trade for Smith
Sane in fact. We'd rely on {Marvin Williams} for spacing or Pachulia for rebounding.

I found the perfect solution!

It's quite simple!

Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Kirk Hinrich, Zaza Pachulia for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu

Hawks also send 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a TPE for Chris Duhon.

Duhon/Crawford
Joe/Crawford
Hedo/Williams
Smith/Williams
Dwight/Thomas

You get your spacing, and you get your center. Yeah you downgrade PG but for the best C in the L, it's gotta be done!

Orlando then goes on to move Arenas to LA for Walton, Artest and Blake.

They also move Nelson to Chicago for Brewer, Watson, Bogans, 1st.

ORL:
Teague/Blake
Redick/Hinrich
Artest/Richardson
Andersen/Bass
Zaza/Orton

CHI:
Rose/Nelson
Brewer/Nelson
Deng/Korver
Boozer/Gibson
Noah/Asik

sd1306 wrote:I found the perfect solution!

It's quite simple!

Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Kirk Hinrich, Zaza Pachulia for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu

Hawks also send 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a TPE for Chris Duhon.

Duhon/Crawford
Joe/Crawford
Hedo/Williams
Smith/Williams
Dwight/Thomas

You get your spacing, and you get your center. Yeah you downgrade PG but for the best C in the L, it's gotta be done!

No it doesn't have to be done. I like Dwight, and getting him in Atlanta would be a good idea, but not at the cost of gutting the team. You are paying a ton of money to two players as SF which neither is that solid. You have no big man depth and no point guard.

sd1306 wrote:I found the perfect solution!

It's quite simple!

Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Kirk Hinrich, Zaza Pachulia for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu

Hawks also send 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a TPE for Chris Duhon.

Duhon/Crawford
Joe/Crawford
Hedo/Williams
Smith/Williams
Dwight/Thomas

You get your spacing, and you get your center. Yeah you downgrade PG but for the best C in the L, it's gotta be done!

Orlando then goes on to move Arenas to LA for Walton, Artest and Blake.

They also move Nelson to Chicago for Brewer, Watson, Bogans, 1st.

ORL:
Teague/Blake
Redick/Hinrich
Artest/Richardson
Andersen/Bass
Zaza/Orton

CHI:
Rose/Nelson
Brewer/Nelson
Deng/Korver
Boozer/Gibson
Noah/Asik

is this the solution to make Orlando a bottom feeding team? the picks from Atlanta will be back of the pack. The roster wont make the playoffs. Wow, i can barely think of a worse way to destroy the magic.

tiderulz wrote:

sd1306 wrote:I found the perfect solution!

It's quite simple!

Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Kirk Hinrich, Zaza Pachulia for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu

Hawks also send 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a TPE for Chris Duhon.

Duhon/Crawford
Joe/Crawford
Hedo/Williams
Smith/Williams
Dwight/Thomas

You get your spacing, and you get your center. Yeah you downgrade PG but for the best C in the L, it's gotta be done!

Orlando then goes on to move Arenas to LA for Walton, Artest and Blake.

They also move Nelson to Chicago for Brewer, Watson, Bogans, 1st.

ORL:
Teague/Blake
Redick/Hinrich
Artest/Richardson
Andersen/Bass
Zaza/Orton

CHI:
Rose/Nelson
Brewer/Nelson
Deng/Korver
Boozer/Gibson
Noah/Asik

is this the solution to make Orlando a bottom feeding team? the picks from Atlanta will be back of the pack. The roster wont make the playoffs. Wow, i can barely think of a worse way to destroy the magic.

I think he was being sarcastic.

But geez:

B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins


For your trade gutting two 50 win teams on both sides, I raise you a trade whereas only Orlando gets gutted.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=3wllsco
Teague-Hinrich
JJ-Williams
Smith-Malc.Thomas
Andersen-K.Benson
Howard-Pachulia

Hawks are happy. Otis Smith turns up on a milk carton somewhere.

Ruhiel wrote:Horford doesnt stretch the floor against length and while he looks "robotic" he has some of the same advanced post moves that Tim Duncan has he just doesn't have the same "freakish" size and length to finish and shoot over guys and he can't get a good look at the rim.

Lolwut?

No he doesn't, his post game is absolutely disgusting. Cringe worthy watching him try.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

Ruhiel wrote:Horford doesnt stretch the floor against length and while he looks "robotic" he has some of the same advanced post moves that Tim Duncan has he just doesn't have the same "freakish" size and length to finish and shoot over guys and he can't get a good look at the rim.

Lolwut?

No he doesn't, his post game is absolutely disgusting. Cringe worthy watching him try.

If the shots actually went in they wouldn't be so cringe worthy. The shots are difficult because he's not overly long but just as robotic as Duncan.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olboE9cc-sQ[/youtube]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ky5_zTRu4#t=0m55s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfBMw3SAdG4#t=3m38s
and that's just a small taste of how similar they are in their post moves, but...

Duncan at 7'0 and who knows how long wingspan can shoot over guys. They work on the same moves.

Same mentality, different physical toolboxes = different results plain and simple.

Ruhiel wrote:B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3m9l6d3

that's terrible, c'mon man.

dockingsched wrote:

Ruhiel wrote:B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3m9l6d3

that's terrible, c'mon man.

c'mon man. Cherrypicking. There were two options.

A) trade Josh Smith build with Al at pf:
get a
+ sf 3 point shooter next to Al (not named Marvin Williams)
+ c bolsters Pachulia and better threat than Collins
- has to take pressure off Al on defense, draw double teams etc.

Propose your own trade which makes it a "terrible" playoff lineup by comparison.
.....
edit: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jx2csd

do u really think that lowly of al horford?

Ruhiel wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:

Ruhiel wrote:Horford doesnt stretch the floor against length and while he looks "robotic" he has some of the same advanced post moves that Tim Duncan has he just doesn't have the same "freakish" size and length to finish and shoot over guys and he can't get a good look at the rim.

Lolwut?

No he doesn't, his post game is absolutely disgusting. Cringe worthy watching him try.

If the shots actually went in they wouldn't be so cringe worthy. The shots are difficult because he's not overly long but just as robotic as Duncan.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olboE9cc-sQ[/youtube]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ky5_zTRu4#t=0m55s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfBMw3SAdG4#t=3m38s
and that's just a small taste of how similar they are in their post moves, but...

Duncan at 7'0 and who knows how long wingspan can shoot over guys. They work on the same moves.

Same mentality, different physical toolboxes = different results plain and simple.

So in other words Monta Ellis would be a top 3 shooting guard if he were 6'6 with a good wingspan.

Or Al Jefferson would be a top big if he was athletic.

Or Rondo would be a great shooter if he had great form.

Or Westbrook would be a great facilitator if he had great court vision.

A boat would fly if it had wings and a truck would be a sports car if it were a Ferrari.

Interesting theory.

Big Al is a mini-Tim Duncan. Problem's he runs into is that he's mini.

Both are PF-Cs.
They have similar advanced post moves. But Duncan has more physical tools. This is not debatable.

Duncan's shots go in because he can shoot over you and grab his own misses at a higher rate.

Come on dockingsched, you're answering me with out of context questions. To answer:

If anything I think Josh Smith's 3 point shooting is not consistent enough to play with Horford.
He is not turning into Paul Pierce or Durant anytime soon. Those are perfect compliments to Horford.

If you go back and carefully reread the thread Others have proposed trade with the foregone conclusion they are a talented but not very complementary combo.

Did you notice that?

You my friend are not contributing.

Either it's Playoffs Team A:
A) trade Josh Smith build with slashers Jeff and Joe:
get a
+ sf 3 point shooter next to Horford
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins

{insert Trade Here}

or it's Playoffs Team B:
B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins

{insert Trade Here}

P.S. it sincerely seems like you're baiting here. And I'd appreciate if you contributed a trade suggestion to help improve the Hawks on offense and defense. thx in advance

Ruhiel wrote:Big Al is a mini-Tim Duncan. Problem's he runs into is that he's mini.

Stop it.

Both are PF-Cs.
They have similar advanced post moves. But Duncan has more physical tools. This is not debatable.

Oh thanks for that fun fact.

Duncan's shots go in because he can shoot over you and grab his own misses at a higher rate.

Or Duncan's shot goes in cause he's Duncan, an all time great.

Hmm, let me try this game... O.J. Mayo is a mini Ray Allen. He shoots the same, they just don't go in.

And Cash isn't contributing and is baiting? El-Oh-El.

@vincecarter4pres

So in other words Monta Ellis would be a top 3 shooting guard if he were 6'6 with a good wingspan.
Or Al Jefferson would be a top big if he was athletic.
Or Rondo would be a great shooter if he had great form.
Or Westbrook would be a great facilitator if he had great court vision.
A boat would fly if it had wings and a truck would be a sports car if it were a Ferrari.

??I dont know what your point is or how it relates to Al.

Horford has a pattern of similar robotic post moves to Duncan.

How is this even debatable?? Duncan's nickname is the Big Fundamental.

He uses simple sound fundamentals and he's big. I never said he wasnt the best PF of all time.

I merely noted he uses fundamentals and he's big. Al uses the very same fundamentals but he's not "big".

There is only so many things you can do in the post. ie Bird had quite a few off balance moves to Dirk and played in the pivot a lot.

Should I say Al and Bird/Dirk are similar since every time he tries to off balance he twists his ankle?

You are acting as if I outright disrespected him and derailing the Hawks thread!

Duncan's post moves This is another (pretty interesting) subject that can be discussed in General Board. if u want I could start a thread on who's post moves Al resembles most.

PM me and I'll post a thread with face up and back to basket guy like Dirk, or Carmelo's moves, Duncan etc. maybe a Z-Bo mix.

I think its fairly consensus Horford is more a less physically gifted Duncan than almost anyone else in the pivoting area.
:::::::::

In the meanwhile.
I'd be surprised (and pleased) if you can come up with a trade that helps the Hawks Playoffs Lineup.

A) trade Josh Smith build with slashers Jeff and Joe:
get a
+ sf 3 point shooter next to Horford
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins
{insert Trade Here}

or it's Playoffs Team B:
B) trade Al Horford build with slashers Jeff, Joe, Josh:
get a
+ pf 3 point shooter next to Smith
+ c bolsters Pachulia and low maintenance, high efficiency is better threat than Collins
{insert Trade Here}