RealGM

Deron Williams
Age: 28
Contract: 5/100
Stats:
16.9 ppg
8.1 apg
3.0 rpg
1.0 spg
3.0 topg
39%/29%81%



Goran Dragic
Age: 26
Contract: 4/30
14.8 ppg
6.4 apg
3.0 rpg
1.9 spg
2.2 topg

45%/34%/75%

I don't think this question has a definitive answer. It totally depends on what team is trading for either player.

Deron has the marketability of being a star player whereas Dragic is a bit of a unknown to the average NBA fan. Let's just say that people aren't flocking to get the new Dragic jerseys or flocking to Suns games because of Dragic. So in that regard, if you're a team that needs to make some money and put some butts in seats, Deron probably makes more sense and you might be willing to give up more than other teams.

If you're a team that already has an established star that fans love, but you need an upgrade at PG, than Dragic would make a ton more sense. More manageable contract (easier to trade for and to have on the books), younger than Deron and quiet frankly, more dependable shooting wise.

I dont think Deron is the type of player to make $70M more in revenue for a team, Duster. Thats a lot of tickets and Beer.

DusterBuster wrote:I don't think this question has a definitive answer. It totally depends on what team is trading for either player.

Deron has the marketability of being a star player whereas Dragic is a bit of a unknown to the average NBA fan. Let's just say that people aren't flocking to get the new Dragic jerseys or flocking to Suns games because of Dragic. So in that regard, if you're a team that needs to make some money and put some butts in seats, Deron probably makes more sense and you might be willing to give up more than other teams.

If you're a team that already has an established star that fans love, but you need an upgrade at PG, than Dragic would make a ton more sense. More manageable contract (easier to trade for and to have on the books), younger than Deron and quiet frankly, more dependable shooting wise.

I think Deron's marketability is to other players (like Dwight), who have wanted to play with him. Free agents will come to play with Deron, I don't think they would come to play with Dragic.

Trader_Joe wrote:I think Deron's marketability is to other players (like Dwight), who have wanted to play with him. Free agents will come to play with Deron, I don't think they would come to play with Dragic.

This is also a good point.

Texas Chuck wrote:I dont think Deron is the type of player to make $70M more in revenue for a team, Duster. Thats a lot of tickets and Beer.

It's possible, but he is a marketable player. Whereas I can guarantee Dragic isn't bringing in 30 million to any team.

Trader_Joe wrote:I think Deron's marketability is to other players (like Dwight), who have wanted to play with him. Free agents will come to play with Deron, I don't think they would come to play with Dragic.

It's a bit of a catch 22 though since Deron takes up so much additional cap space.

I think Deron would have more trade value based on name and hopes of regaining former glory, but Dragic provides much better production relative to contract.

I'd be interested to hear reasons from TruthTelling and who else voted for Dragic by a lot.

Deron because he's living off reputation right now

Trader_Joe wrote:I'd be interested to hear reasons from TruthTelling and who else voted for Dragic by a lot.

1. He is younger.
2. He gives better production actually.
3. He makes less than 1/3 of what Deron makes.

You forgot to leave out some more stats that say a whole lot such as winshares, PER, minutes played all which also favor Dragic

DusterBuster wrote:
It's possible, but he is a marketable player. Whereas I can guarantee Dragic isn't bringing in 30 million to any team.

The point? Dragic clearly outperforms his contract while Deron is vastly overpaid.

Williams by a lot. I don't even know how this is debatable. You have to look at the big picture and context. Put Williams on the Rockets or Suns and he'll look like a stud, too. Put Dragic on the Nets and watch his play/stats plummet.

Williams at his best is far better than Dragic at his best. Williams also is a marque player and very much marketable. The average fan knows him and elite players want to play with him.

I like Dragic. He's nice player and can be a very valuable piece, but at the end of the day he's just another good player.

TruthTelling wrote:

DusterBuster wrote:
It's possible, but he is a marketable player. Whereas I can guarantee Dragic isn't bringing in 30 million to any team.

The point? Dragic clearly outperforms his contract while Deron is vastly overpaid.

So are you saying the Suns would turn down a straight Dragic/Deron swap?

Also, why didn't Dragic get more money this summer?
They were both FAs at the same time and Deron's poor play has been going on since he was traded to the Nets in February 2011.

Generally speaking, something is only "worth" what someone is willing to "pay" - which is different than intrinsic value.

Does Deron have high intrinsic value? Sure. He's a big name, he sells jerseys and the assumption is that other players would love to play with him.

Does Deron have high trade value? No. His contract sucks 1/3 of a teams salary cap and, frankly, there are cheaper alternatives out there that won't kill financial flexibility the way Williams' contract would.

Does Dragic have high intrinsic value? No, not yet. He's young though, and has the potential for high intrinsic value.

Does Dragic have high trade value? Yes. He has one of the best contracts given out this past offseason - a flat $7.5m for four years. His contract makes him easily tradable for MLE level players, cap space, picks or other young talent - and he doesn't kill cap flexibility.

Though Williams has high intrinsic value, Dragic is a much better trade asset.

Sun Scorched wrote:Generally speaking, something is only "worth" what someone is willing to "pay" - which is different than intrinsic value.

Does Deron have high intrinsic value? Sure. He's a big name, he sells jerseys and the assumption is that other players would love to play with him.

Does Deron have high trade value? No. His contract sucks 1/3 of a teams salary cap and, frankly, there are cheaper alternatives out there that won't kill financial flexibility the way Williams' contract would.

Does Dragic have high intrinsic value? No, not yet. He's young though, and has the potential for high intrinsic value.

Does Dragic have high trade value? Yes. He has one of the best contracts given out this past offseason - a flat $7.5m for four years. His contract makes him easily tradable for MLE level players, cap space, picks or other young talent - and he doesn't kill cap flexibility.

Though Williams has high intrinsic value, Dragic is a much better trade asset.

Stop it, you're going to break the internet.

I can't even believe this is being debated. x- with the only intelligent post thus far ITT.

This is facepalming stuff right here.

This has zero to due with me being a Nets fan, this is just ridiculous.

It would be like someone asking who has higher trade value, Kevin Love or Paul Millsap.

Sun Scorched wrote:Generally speaking, something is only "worth" what someone is willing to "pay" - which is different than intrinsic value.

Does Deron have high intrinsic value? Sure. He's a big name, he sells jerseys and the assumption is that other players would love to play with him.

Does Deron have high trade value? No. His contract sucks 1/3 of a teams salary cap and, frankly, there are cheaper alternatives out there that won't kill financial flexibility the way Williams' contract would.

Does Dragic have high intrinsic value? No, not yet. He's young though, and has the potential for high intrinsic value.

Does Dragic have high trade value? Yes. He has one of the best contracts given out this past offseason - a flat $7.5m for four years. His contract makes him easily tradable for MLE level players, cap space, picks or other young talent - and he doesn't kill cap flexibility.

Though Williams has high intrinsic value, Dragic is a much better trade asset.

So you voted... Dragic by a lot?
and same questions to you....

Wre you saying the Suns would turn down a straight Dragic/Deron swap?
Also, why didn't Dragic get more money this summer or Deron less?
They were both FAs at the same time and Deron's poor play has been going on since he was traded to the Nets in February 2011.

Trader_Joe wrote:

TruthTelling wrote:

DusterBuster wrote:
It's possible, but he is a marketable player. Whereas I can guarantee Dragic isn't bringing in 30 million to any team.

The point? Dragic clearly outperforms his contract while Deron is vastly overpaid.

So are you saying the Suns would turn down a straight Dragic/Deron swap?

Also, why didn't Dragic get more money this summer?
They were both FAs at the same time and Deron's poor play has been going on since he was traded to the Nets in February 2011.

C'mon Trader_Joe - the Net's absolutely had to offer Deron the max so he wouldn't bolt.

I think the Suns most definately would turn down a Deron/Dragic swap - they just got off that treadmill.

The Nets, however, I think would make that trade from a shear luxury tax perspective. Said differently, the Nets would win a similar amount of games for a smaller cash outlay with Dragic.

Sun Scorched wrote:C'mon Trader_Joe - the Net's absolutely had to offer Deron the max so he wouldn't bolt.

I think the Suns most definately would turn down a Deron/Dragic swap - they just got off that treadmill.

The Nets, however, I think would make that trade from a shear luxury tax perspective. Said differently, the Nets would win a similar amount of games for a smaller cash outlay with Dragic.

Right.. because other teams would have offered him a Max as well.
Why didn't Dragic get more money?

And no, the Nets would not do that deal as the luxury tax is not a concern of theirs... period.
Otherwise they wouldn't have done the JJ trade, or signed Teletovic or given the deals they did to their players.

For the record - I haven't voted.

But to one of your questions Joe, the Suns could have had Nash, at less than half of William's contract, but they decided to go rebuild. Currently, I think it's fair to say that both Williams and Nash have equal intrinsic value.

Trader_Joe wrote:And no, the Nets would not do that deal as the luxury tax is not a concern of theirs... period.
Otherwise they wouldn't have done the JJ trade, or signed Teletovic or given the deals they did to their players.

Great points.

As to the question, "Why didn't Dragic get more money?"

I'd like to think he received one of the better contracts.

But the longer answer involves questions on why a lot of other players got paid the way they did. I'm sure we could all list off players that are under/overpaid. Doesn't have anything to do with their value to the team, sometimes it owes itself simply to the market.

yeah the MAx was the price for DWill as we know at least one other team(Dallas) was willing to give it to him. I agree that neither team would swap them straight up. Deron is still the superior player but hes not enough better for Phoenix to justify the added salary and Dragic doesnt clear enough room to give Brooklyn any more flexibility under the CBA.