Rockets/OKC/Jazz

Hedda Gambler · Post #1 » by **Hedda Gambler** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 4:39 pm

Edit: For the record I am just playing around with some ways for Utah to get future assets with our cap space, while ensuring that we will stink next year.

Houston Rockets
Houston out: Omer Asik, Thomas Robinson, Carlos Delfino, top 3 protected #2014
Houston in: Serge Ibaka

Houston get a very good PF, while stile maintaining their space for Howard.

Possible starting 5:

Lin
Harden
Parsons
Ibaka
Howard

Even without Howard they still have Harden, Parsons and Ibaka to build on.

Oklahoma City Thunder
OKC out: Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb
OKC in: Omer Asik, Paul Millsap S+T

OKC replace Perkins with Asik, and get Millsap as their starting PF. If they get Millsap on something like 3 for 27, they also have a few million to re-sign Martin with.

Possible starting 5:

Westbrook
Martin
Durant
Millsap
Asik

Utah Jazz
Utah out: Paul Millsap S+T
Utah in: Kendrick Perkins, Thomas Robinson, Jeremy Lamb, Carlos Delfino, Houston #2014 top 3 protected pick

Utah take on Perkins and help Houston get a great PF while maintaining their cap space for D12. The reward is Lamb and the Houston-pick. This deal will also make sure that they will be really bad this year and position them very nicely for next years draft.

Possible starting 5:

#2013 14
Hayward
M Williams
Favors
Kanter

mbn23 · Post #2 » by **mbn23** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 5:25 pm

This is different, but I think I like it. If all the money works with the cap room and everything, then I like it. Does OKC have the cap room for those salaries?

Post #3 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 5:50 pm

You trying to build a dynasty in OKC?

LarsV8 · Post #4 » by **LarsV8** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 6:07 pm

Its interesting from Houston's perspective, however the money would be an issue.

Houston needs to dump 3.5 million in salary and this doesn't do it because of how high Ibaka's salary is. Delfino is cut in any Dwight to Houston scenario, so that saved money doesn't count towards the goal.

Br0ken_Sp0ke · Post #5 » by **Br0ken_Sp0ke** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 6:09 pm

Rockets say no. We don't consider trading Asik until Dwight signs.

inquisitive · Post #6 » by **inquisitive** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 8:08 pm

rockets would have a pretty sick starting lineup, but not sure if the financials would work.

Post #7 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 8:21 pm

Deal makes a lot of sense for everyone--money tweaks aside for Houston--but would Houston and OKC really like helping build another elite team to have to battle against every year?

Still OP its a really solid deal.

Ell Curry · Post #8 » by **Ell Curry** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 8:49 pm

Great deal. Houston could follow it up by trading Terrence Jones or Motejunas for a rookie contract wing to a team who hates this draft and get a guy like Tim Hardaway's Jr or Crabbe or Bullock or Glen rice Jr or Karasev to play the role Delfino did,

I think the Thunder would even add the 29 pick if Utah or the Rockets needed a sweetener, since Asik-Durant-Martin-Westbrook, with either Mllsap or Thabo depending on matchup, and the 12th pick, collision and Reggie Jackson off the bench looks really, really strong.

Post #9 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Jun 5, 2013 8:57 pm

I know that the Jazz aren't giving up much, but, they are also taking on Perkins' contract to enable those other 2 teams to turn into contenders. (not that OKC wasn't before, but, they'd be better after this)

Big gamble for Houston but, that lineup is about 5000x better than anything teh Lakers are going to give Howard. So, not a long-shot gamble in my estimation.

I think if you want the Jazz to accomodate this deal by taking Perkins and S&T Millsap they are going to demand more compensation. I know I would if I were the Jazz GM. I'd be playing hardball, not Monty Hall.

Hedda Gambler · Post #10 » by **Hedda Gambler** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 5:21 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:I think if you want the Jazz to accomodate this deal by taking Perkins and S&T Millsap they are going to demand more compensation. I know I would if I were the Jazz GM. I'd be playing hardball, not Monty Hall.

Do we really care that OKC and Houston get really, really strong if we decide that it is time for a clear cut rebuild? We would be intentionally bad next year, and even with a top pick in #2014, we would need at least another year to get really good. If the prospects pan out, we could enter 2015 with a #2013 new PG, Hayward, #2014 draft pick, Lamb, Favors and Kanter as our core. By this time, Asik, Lin and Parsons will need new deals that might be financially difficult for their teams to give them. I`d obviously take all that we can get, but there is no way a player like Parsons is included in a deal like this, so it would have to be an additional pick or two.

The59Sound · Post #11 » by **The59Sound** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 5:42 am

Yeah, even though they're taking on Perkins, I'm not sure the Jazz could wring that much more value out of this. I think it's pretty well-constructed.

Post #12 » by **jazzfan1971** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 6:23 am

I don't see it that way. Look at what Houston got out of NY to help them shed one year of Jared Jeffries. Something like Kevin Martin who was a 20ppg scorer that year. Jordan Hill who was the 8th pick in the draft a year and a half earlier. The Knicks 2012 pick (#16). And a swap option in 2011.

At the time I was thinking Morey was also asking for Dolan's wife to give him oral pleasure at half court before all home games. But, I guess he backed off that.

And that was for the EXPIRING Jared Jefferies.

We're taking on a worse contract and contributing a very valuable player (Millsap) to this equation. Far more that Houston did in helping NY get Melo. This deal is a lot like that one. And if I'm the Jazz I don't settle for 'well-constructed' I'm going Morey on this one. You want us to help get you Dwight? You want us to help balance your contending roster? You are gonna pay. And then some.

LarsV8 · Post #13 » by **LarsV8** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 7:05 am

Martin was traded for Carl Landry who was having a monster year. It was unrelated to JJ.

It was Hill, a pick and a swap option for the Jeffries cap relief
This is Trob, Lamb and a pick for Perkins relief and facilitating Milsap.

This is a better return.

Post #14 » by **jazzfan1971** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 7:19 am

Trob's value is all ready about nil. Lamb might be worth something. And the pick will undoubtedly be late.

I just don't see much value there myself. Taking on Perkins is pretty bad, but, helping OKC and Houston both build contenders is worse.

I guess most Jazz fans would do this.

I wouldn't.

Hedda Gambler · Post #15 » by **Hedda Gambler** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 3:37 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:Trob's value is all ready about nil. Lamb might be worth something. And the pick will undoubtedly be late.

I just don't see much value there myself. Taking on Perkins is pretty bad, but, helping OKC and Houston both build contenders is worse.

I guess most Jazz fans would do this.

I wouldn't.

I personally don`t get this way of reasoning. If we decide to go young, our only goal is to get as many future assets as possible, while developing our young core. We do not want Millsap, Jefferson, OJ Mayo or similar players that make us contend for the play-offs. Going down this road, we know that we will be very bad, at least for a couple of years. Why should we care who wins in these years? We have to decide which deals give us the best possible future assets. I`m not saying that this deal is the one, but that it, at least for me, is totally irrelevant who wins while we rebuild.

Post #16 » by **jazzfan1971** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 6:32 pm

I'm not saying don't help them. I'm saying help them, but, bleed them dry in so doing.

I don't really care if Houston or OKC get great teams. That's not my concern. My concern is that they should pay a hefty cost for getting those teams. It's a matter of leverage. I think the Jazz have a ton here. Houston and OKC should be dying to get deals like this. I think you must exploit that leverage to the maximum extent.

djeff · Post #17 » by **djeff** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 8:40 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I know that the Jazz aren't giving up much, but, they are also taking on Perkins' contract to enable those other 2 teams to turn into contenders. (not that OKC wasn't before, but, they'd be better after this)

The jazz are giving nothing, Milsapp is a free agent.

I dont like it for Houston, i think Ibaka is not the player you want at 4 with D12 at center. The offense will be terrible.

nyc6 · Post #18 » by **nyc6** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 9:06 pm

Very Intersting trade. Houston gets crushed value wise (so Ofc Utah and OKC accept) but I like it since I'm ok with Ibaka+ Dwight. I'm a fan of Ibaka because he looks to impove every year.

spearsy23 · Post #19 » by **spearsy23** » Thu Jun 6, 2013 9:21 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'm not saying don't help them. I'm saying help them, but, bleed them dry in so doing.

I don't really care if Houston or OKC get great teams. That's not my concern. My concern is that they should pay a hefty cost for getting those teams. It's a matter of leverage. I think the Jazz have a ton here. Houston and OKC should be dying to get deals like this. I think you must exploit that leverage to the maximum extent.

OKC isn't going to pay a premium, we're fine with where we're at. You can debate rather or not that's smart, but it's true.

Catchall · Post #20 » by **Catchall** » Fri Jun 7, 2013 6:13 am

The Houston pick sucks. It's mid-20s in a draft that will suck in the mid-20s.

Jeremy Lamb sucks. Has already been traded twice in one year without ever playing meaningful minutes.

Utah looks like dipsh** depot in this trade. And for what?

We'll probably waive Perkins. Lamb isn't going to get time over Hayward or Burks.

At the least, I want OKC's #12 pick to go with #14 so I can draft Adams or Schroeder. I also want a 2nd-rd pick from Houston.

Otherwise, this is a non-starter.