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Chuck Texas Review

Losses:

Tom Thibodeau
Nazr Mohammed

I mean the Bulls are bringing back essentially the same team but with a new coach. I personally think it was time for Thibs to go.

Draft:

Bobby Portis

I loved this pick.  I think he was the BPA and unless you thought Tyus Jones was ready to play now I'd rather take the best guy with Noah possibly gone after this year and Pau getting older.

Trades:

None I believe

Free Agency:

Just brought back their own guys:

Jimmy Butler
Dunleavy
Brooks

Got a little odd at times with Butler, but rather quickly they got him locked him which is key.   I thought they risked losing Dunleavy which would hurt so good to get him back and the 3rd year is non-gtd which makes the contract fine for me.  Not a huge fan of Brooks as teh backup to Rose simply because while I think Brooks is a fine backup, the Bulls really need another guy who can start and play big minutes.


Current Depth Chart:

Noah/Gibson
Pau Gasol/Mirotic/Portis/Bairstow
Dunleavy/Snell/McDermott
Butler/Hinrich/Moore
Rose/Brooks

Needs:

Another quality PG.   You simply can't count on Rose to play 75+ games and even when he has been playing, he's been pretty erratic in his play.   Brooks/Hinrcih just isn't enough insurance.   Would also like to see a veteran center added.  Noah and Pau can certainly take 48 minutes at center, but if things are going well you are going to want to play them together as well.  And with Noah's health another big body would help.   And they still need another wing unless they are convinced both Snell and McDermott are ready to take significant roles.

Health for Rose!!!!

Additional Thoughts:

The coaching change.   That's what this season is about.   It will be really interesting to see how The Mayor handles some of the issues that seemed to trip up Thibs.   Can he use more of his bench?  How will he handle playing time for his 4 bigs.   Can he get along with a FO that has historically been difficult for players and coaches to co-exist with?   How will he handle everything Derrick Rose?   Will his systems work at this level.

Win/loss Prediction:  44-38

I think the Bulls could be as good as the 2nd best team in the East.  A healthy Noah and a healthy Rose returning somewhat to form and all of sudden this is a very scary team with 4 all-star caliber starters and 2 quality bigs off the bench in Gibson and Mirotic.    But I just don't think you can count on health from them.  Combine that with a rookie coach and an iffy wing rotation behind Butler and I think they will be a 4-6 seed.

Off-season Grade:  B-

I liked the coaching change.   It was just time.   I liked getting Butler back and locked up long-term.   I don't mind bringing essentially the same team back if they had also added a real back-up PG.  Even just grabbing Mo Williams or Jeremy Lin who essentially took the same money as Brooks would have been better because you could live with them as a stopgap starter for a dozen games. 

PMOTT3 Review

Key Losses:

Thibs

Other Losses:

Maze Mohammed

Draft:

Bobby Portis

Portis was a steal at #22. I thought there was a real chance my Hawks would draft him at #15. Anyways, He's had some good moments in SL including games where he's been draining 3's. I think this was a good pick up and gives the bulls added big insurance in the completely realistic case that Noah & Gasol have hobbled seasons due to injury/age.

Trades:

N/A

Free Agency:

Jimmy Butler
Mike Dunleavy
Aaron Brooks

I'm also okay with the Dunleavy contract with the 3rd year being unguaranteed. Until McDermott and Snell can prove themselves in more minutes they needed him back. Brooks came on the cheap but i think he's better suited as a 3rd string PG and not someone I'd want possibly as my starter for week long stretches with Rose's health issues.

With the rumors of Butler possibly wanting a shorter deal, they did great locking him up. Avoiding that extension last year had massive payoff for him. He was their best player all season and i think he deserves the money.

Current Depth Chart: (rough)

PG: Rose/Brooks
SG: Butler/Hinrich/Moore
SF: Dunleavy/Snell/McDermott
PF: Gasol/Mirotic/Bairstow
C: Noah/Gibson/Portis

Needs:

I think Chicago has quite a bit of needs tbh. I dont think Dunleavy is going to be able to play starter minutes all season as age takes its toll on him. So if McDermott & Snell prove unable to handle starter-like minutes then im looking to consolidate some of my big depth for an upgraded wing.

I think they need a better back up PG to handle starter minutes when Rose is injured or resting in his week spurts. Chuck is right, Mo Williams or Jeremy Lin would have been excellent for them.

I also dont see Hinrich as a capable back up SG. They need a good back up 3-D shooter or just a shooter period and try to hide him on defense if you have to.


Additional Thoughts:

I think Thibs is an excellent coach but i agree that it was just time for him and the FO to part ways. In order for a franchise to succeed, everyone has to be on the same page and clicking; that clearly wasn't going to happen had Thibs stayed.

I'm very interested to see how Hoiberg manages minutes and his lineups. I actually think the Bulls fair better with a lineup of Rose/Butler/Dunleavy/Mirotic/Noah or Gasol.

Win/Loss Prediction: 49-33

I can see them fighting for low to mid 50's if things break right. I'm not expecting that though and i think they will be competing for a 3-5 seed.

Off-Season Grade: B-

I dont think they addressed enough of their needs but everything they did in FA was on good deals. Locking up Butler was key and they accomplished that. Also loved the Portis pick. Hoiberg remains to be seen for me but i think it was time to let Thibs go. C+ or B- feels right to me and I'm going with the latter.

Agreed on B-, was originally thinking C, but they kept Jimmy Butler on a long term deal which was a plus vs. what it seemed could have happened and got Dunleavy on a great price. Draft wasn't flashy, but seemed good value.

Yeah, pretty pedestrian offseason. But they did retain Butler and tried to create some upside with a new coach, so that gets them to B-. Remains to be seen how the coaching change works.

B+.

Brought back Butler long term. Portis was a nice fit. Considering they had pushed Thibs out, they got a guy they wanted. Didn't do anything wrong. You guys are too negative, and the Butler signing and the Portis draft pick should have it at least a straight B. Still needs to consider moving 1 big, which held it off an A-.

But yeah, you all are too negative and dare I say it, might just be biased.

Laimbeer wrote:Yeah, pretty pedestrian offseason. But they did retain Butler and tried to create some upside with a new coach, so that gets them to B-. Remains to be seen how the coaching change works.

Did what they needed to do and Portis a good draft pick.
B- definitely not a great off season but they must be healthy to be a player in the East.

HartfordWhalers wrote:B+.

Brought back Butler long term. Portis was a nice fit. Considering they had pushed Thibs out, they got a guy they wanted. Didn't do anything wrong. You guys are too negative, and the Butler signing and the Portis draft pick should have it at least a straight B. Still needs to consider moving 1 big, which held it off an A-.

But yeah, you all are too negative and dare I say it, might just be biased.

Butler was restricted, so I don't think getting him back was any great accomplishment. The Portis pick was nice for that area, but nothing that moves the needle. The coaching change is a wild card. Not sure why this is much more than holding serve.

B

Laimbeer wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:B+.

Brought back Butler long term. Portis was a nice fit. Considering they had pushed Thibs out, they got a guy they wanted. Didn't do anything wrong. You guys are too negative, and the Butler signing and the Portis draft pick should have it at least a straight B. Still needs to consider moving 1 big, which held it off an A-.

But yeah, you all are too negative and dare I say it, might just be biased.

Butler was restricted, so I don't think getting him back was any great accomplishment. The Portis pick was nice for that area, but nothing that moves the needle. The coaching change is a wild card. Not sure why this is much more than holding serve.

Sure, in some form Butler was coming back. But they have Butler locked up for 4 years minimum. That is the big get.

HartfordWhalers wrote:
But yeah, you all are too negative and dare I say it, might just be biased.

It's true, I prefer NY style pizza and it affected my review. I apologize and will try and do better.

Chuck Texas wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:
But yeah, you all are too negative and dare I say it, might just be biased.

It's true, I prefer NY style pizza and it affected my review. I apologize and will try and do better.

I knew you hated Philly players.

But seriously, Chicago could have had:

Butler on a q/o
Butler by matching a 2+1
Butler by matching a 3+1

And instead got Butler to agree to a 4+1

I think that alone is worth the B or B+. And Portis was the icing.

I'm not sure how I am the highest score in the poll as it normally is me on the other end of the grading curve.

HartfordWhalers wrote:But seriously, Chicago could have had:

Butler on a q/o
Butler by matching a 2+1
Butler by matching a 3+1

And instead got Butler to agree to a 4+1

I think that alone is worth the B or B+. And Portis was the icing.

I'm not sure how I am the highest score in the poll as it normally is me on the other end of the grading curve.

They have no alternative to a PG that has played 51,10, 0,and 39 games over the last 4 seasons. For a team with that much veteran talent, its a huge hole and I think not addressing that keeps them from having a B+ or better. Especially not when said PG has been pretty inconsistent when he does play.

Chuck Texas wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:But seriously, Chicago could have had:

Butler on a q/o
Butler by matching a 2+1
Butler by matching a 3+1

And instead got Butler to agree to a 4+1

I think that alone is worth the B or B+. And Portis was the icing.

I'm not sure how I am the highest score in the poll as it normally is me on the other end of the grading curve.

They have no alternative to a PG that has played 51,10, 0,and 39 games over the last 4 seasons. For a team with that much veteran talent, its a huge hole and I think not addressing that keeps them from having a B+ or better. Especially not when said PG has been pretty inconsistent when he does play.

I don't think you can replace Rose in any reasonable way, just like Indy couldn't Paul George last year. Better to rise and fall with him, and do the best you can, than to pretend that you can survive as a contender without him and give up assets to bolster a non contender at what ideally is backup pg. I think for what they had to work with, they did very well. If the grade is instead how many games do I think they win, it might be lower.

But HW, if you believe they should consider moving a big, then they could simply move that big to get the PG they need. OR as I mentioned in my write-up there were some okay stop-gap starters available in Mo Williams or Lin in their price range. I agree they aren't a serious championship contender at teh moment, but they have too many veterans to do anything but try and win as much as possible and the ECF would be a real possibility if they could get HCA in at least one round.

I guess I think higher of the rest of the roster than you do. I mean even when Rose has played he's not been very good and the team has still been a very tough out. Someone better than Brooks was doable and they didn't bother.


And current Rose is in no way comparable to 2013 Paul George.

Chuck Texas wrote:But HW, if you believe they should consider moving a big, then they could simply move that big to get the PG they need. OR as I mentioned in my write-up there were some okay stop-gap starters available in Mo Williams or Lin in their price range. I agree they aren't a serious championship contender at teh moment, but they have too many veterans to do anything but try and win as much as possible and the ECF would be a real possibility if they could get HCA in at least one round.

I guess I think higher of the rest of the roster than you do. I mean even when Rose has played he's not been very good and the team has still been a very tough out. Someone better than Brooks was doable and they didn't bother.

So, the obvious team success goals are:
-- Winning the championship
-- Playing in the championship
-- making the conf finals
-- making the 2nd round
-- making the playoffs
_________
be better than Philly

Without Rose, I don't see the top 3 happening with or without a Mo Williams.
Conversely, I think they make the playoffs even without Rose and without a Mo Williams.

Maybe a capable backup pg helps Chicago secure a 2 and out, but basically I don't see it moving the needle on what category the team ends up in, so I'm not really going to care. Put simpler: If Rose if healthy they can get to the ECF. If Rose is not, no bandaid is enough.

Now, they absolutely need to move a big, which kept it out of an A range for me; but getting Butler for that long was a big win imo.

Chuck Texas wrote:And current Rose is in no way comparable to 2013 Paul George.

Not saying he is.

HartfordWhalers wrote:

Chuck Texas wrote:And current Rose is in no way comparable to 2013 Paul George.

Not saying he is.

My point is if you look at Rose' actual level of play, he is replacable. PG isn't. And I while I agree 100% in theory about championship or bust and small improvements that don't bring to realistically much closer to a championship are mostly irrelevant there are still years like last year where the East was very winnable with all of Cleveland's injuries and get to a 7 game series and who knows?

Or maybe a better example would be Dallas adding Tyson Chandler in 2011. At the time of that deal he was supposed to be a backup to Haywood and was seen as a disappointing use of the DUST chip. No one saw that Mavs team with Dirk and a bunch of vets who'd seen their better days doing what they did.

So I say if you can make a move that doesn't hurt you long-term that potentially helps even a little you should do it because sometimes teh unexpected happens.

Chuck Texas wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:

Chuck Texas wrote:And current Rose is in no way comparable to 2013 Paul George.

Not saying he is.

My point is if you look at Rose' actual level of play, he is replacable. PG isn't. And I while I agree 100% in theory about championship or bust and small improvements that don't bring to realistically much closer to a championship are mostly irrelevant there are still years like last year where the East was very winnable with all of Cleveland's injuries and get to a 7 game series and who knows?

Or maybe a better example would be Dallas adding Tyson Chandler in 2011. At the time of that deal he was supposed to be a backup to Haywood and was seen as a disappointing use of the DUST chip. No one saw that Mavs team with Dirk and a bunch of vets who'd seen their better days doing what they did.

So I say if you can make a move that doesn't hurt you long-term that potentially helps even a little you should do it because sometimes teh unexpected happens.

Dirk is a player capable of carrying you. And a guy capable of being all nba 1st or 2nd team. I don't see that n Chicago if it is not Rose. Butler is not there yet.

HartfordWhalers wrote:

Chuck Texas wrote:But HW, if you believe they should consider moving a big, then they could simply move that big to get the PG they need. OR as I mentioned in my write-up there were some okay stop-gap starters available in Mo Williams or Lin in their price range. I agree they aren't a serious championship contender at teh moment, but they have too many veterans to do anything but try and win as much as possible and the ECF would be a real possibility if they could get HCA in at least one round.

I guess I think higher of the rest of the roster than you do. I mean even when Rose has played he's not been very good and the team has still been a very tough out. Someone better than Brooks was doable and they didn't bother.

So, the obvious team success goals are:
-- Winning the championship
-- Playing in the championship
-- making the conf finals
-- making the 2nd round
-- making the playoffs
_________
be better than Philly

Without Rose, I don't see the top 3 happening with or without a Mo Williams.
Conversely, I think they make the playoffs even without Rose and without a Mo Williams.

Maybe a capable backup pg helps Chicago secure a 2 and out, but basically I don't see it moving the needle on what category the team ends up in, so I'm not really going to care. Put simpler: If Rose if healthy they can get to the ECF. If Rose is not, no bandaid is enough.

Now, they absolutely need to move a big, which kept it out of an A range for me; but getting Butler for that long was a big win imo.

Would it not be better to have a bandaid than just let the cut bleed out? If Rose is out for a month are you more confident in Brooks as your starting PG or a Mo Williams, Jeremy Lin, etc.?

I couldn't get them to a B or higher in my review because of their failure to address the Rose issue. He's simply missed way too many games the last 3-4 years and it seems as if they didnt even try to find a capable starting PG. They could have also traded one of their bigs for one (like you mentioned) to fill this need.

PMOTT3 wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:

Chuck Texas wrote:But HW, if you believe they should consider moving a big, then they could simply move that big to get the PG they need. OR as I mentioned in my write-up there were some okay stop-gap starters available in Mo Williams or Lin in their price range. I agree they aren't a serious championship contender at teh moment, but they have too many veterans to do anything but try and win as much as possible and the ECF would be a real possibility if they could get HCA in at least one round.

I guess I think higher of the rest of the roster than you do. I mean even when Rose has played he's not been very good and the team has still been a very tough out. Someone better than Brooks was doable and they didn't bother.

So, the obvious team success goals are:
-- Winning the championship
-- Playing in the championship
-- making the conf finals
-- making the 2nd round
-- making the playoffs
_________
be better than Philly

Without Rose, I don't see the top 3 happening with or without a Mo Williams.
Conversely, I think they make the playoffs even without Rose and without a Mo Williams.

Maybe a capable backup pg helps Chicago secure a 2 and out, but basically I don't see it moving the needle on what category the team ends up in, so I'm not really going to care. Put simpler: If Rose if healthy they can get to the ECF. If Rose is not, no bandaid is enough.

Now, they absolutely need to move a big, which kept it out of an A range for me; but getting Butler for that long was a big win imo.

Would it not be better to have a bandaid than just let the cut bleed out? If Rose is out for a month are you more confident in Brooks as your starting PG or a Mo Williams, Jeremy Lin, etc.?

I couldn't get them to a B or higher in my review because of their failure to address the Rose issue. He's simply missed way too many games the last 3-4 years and it seems as if they didnt even try to find a capable starting PG. They could have also traded one of their bigs for one (like you mentioned) to fill this need.

I really don't see a significant difference between any of those 3 guys: http://bkref.com/tiny/P2ioP