New Orleans & Orlando: PG and C Swap

[drosestruts]

Pelicans in: CJ Watson and Nikola Vucevic

Orlando in: Jrue Holiday and Alex Ajinca


Pelicans:

Moore/Watson/Frazier
Evans/Hield/Galloway
Hill/Pondexter
Davis/Jones/Cunningham
Vucevic/Asik

The Moore signing was odd to me as I feel he fits best as a point guard playing next to a ball dominant shooting guard. Moving Holiday frees up this spot for Moore while giving the Pelicans a great young complimentary piece to Anthony Davis in the front court in Nikola Vucevic.


Magic:

Holiday/Payton/Augustin
Forunier/Meeks
Green/Henzonja
Ibaka/Gordon
Biyombo/Ajinca

The Magic offseason has been interesting. Trading for Ibaka and signing Jeff Green places blockers in the path to playing time for their young players like Henzonja and Gordon. If the Magic value making the playoffs over developing youngsters I figured, why stop there. Holiday is better than Payton, and with another peculiar off-season signing of Biyombo at center where they already had Vucevic, it appears the Magic are willing to shake things up. Trading Vuc opens up the starting role for Biyombo while providing the team an upgrade in talent at the point guard position.


I feel this trade opens up Orlando to be players at the deadline, they could shop Green's $15 mil expiring and young pieces like Payton, Henzonja and Gordon. Even without that I feel like this move ups their chances of making the playoffs in the east, which to me, their offseason moves suggest is a priority

[Texas Chuck]

Both fanbases here will hate this to a degree you won't be able to imagine.

I love it for Orlando and don't mind it for the Pelicans.

[Colbinii]

Both fanbases here will hate this to a degree you won't be able to imagine.

I love it for Orlando and don't mind it for the Pelicans.

This 100%. Both fan bases will hate it, which means it is a solid trade.

The hold-up on Orlando's end is the injury history of Jrue Holiday and then lack of playmaking from the Orlando Bigs. With a big man rotation of Biyombo/Ibaka there is no post play.

[tiderulz]

I love that fans of other teams just dismiss any opinion the fans of teams that they actually follow.

That being said, I dont hate it for Orlando. I do see a few problems.

With Jrue as a starter (and if healthy he should be) Payton is most definitely the backup and now we have a $7mil 3rd string PG on the bench. It could help limit the minutes on Jrue, hopefully keeping him healthier. His injury history really scares me though.

As has been mentioned, trading Vuc away, Orlando loses almost all their inside scoring outside of any Biyombo hustle buckets. I wont call Vuc a top-5 big man in the game, but he is very solid offensively, good post moves and range to the 3 pt line and a ferocious rebounder.

I can see the merits, it would be a gamble on Holiday and then who is the future at PG? And Holiday could just walk away leaving Orlando having traded a low contract locked in big man for nothing. And Holiday could just as likely go down game 2 for the year. Like I said, a gamble.

[pelifan]

I don't hate it at all.

As far as basketball fit though, unless Davis takes a big leap on D or Orlando gets Gordon to step up or Biyombo to prove it wasnt a fluke, I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense for either team but as far as value goes that seems covered.

Also obviously a question of contracts. I think it makes more basketball sense for Orlando than it does New Orleans given our coach and defensive issues but does Orlando want to risk trying to resign both Jrue and Ibaka?

[pelifan]

I love that fans of other teams just dismiss any opinion the fans of teams that they actually follow.

This. Yet a fan to post in the thread and already being labeled as irrational.

Like I'm not going to finally be happy to see a Jrue trade where he isn't lumped in so that we can dump Asik and get no value back.

[meekrab]

Don't object to the value of the trade but yeesh NOLA's point guard rotation is dreadful, I don't think there are 5 teams in the league where Watson or Moore would start.

[pelifan]

Don't object to the value of the trade but yeesh NOLA's point guard rotation is dreadful, I don't think there are 5 teams in the league where Watson or Moore would start.

Most would argue our center rotation which is fixed in this trade is just as bad.

[j-ragg]

I'd love it for Orlando. Can figure out the backup point guard situation later.

[Scoot McGroot]

With Jrue as a starter (and if healthy he should be) Payton is most definitely the backup and now we have a $7mil 3rd string PG on the bench. It could help limit the minutes on Jrue, hopefully keeping him healthier. His injury history really scares me though.

In all fairness, you already have a $5m 3rd sting PG on the bench, so it's not much different. And, in terms of caliber of play inside a Frank Vogel system, you might already have DJ Augustin 3rd on the bench with CJ Watson playing ahead of him. However, in the meantime, you add a much better starting PG, so you have that going for you.

But, it is a fair and troublesome question of improving at PG, while removing your real only offensive option on the interior in Vucevic.

[wise1-2]

I don't like it for Orlando. Payton will be much better this season without Oladipo and Skiles holding him back. Jrue would be a one year rental, and Vucevic is locked into a bargain contract.

[OrlandoNed]

I don't like it for Orlando. Payton will be much better this season without Oladipo and Skiles holding him back. Jrue would be a one year rental, and Vucevic is locked into a bargain contract.

Payton is holding Payton back. Wasn't Oladipo's fault that Payton is a non-factor as a legit scoring threat. It's on Payton to become more of a competent perimeter threat, because right now defenses respect his perimeter game as much as they do to Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan's.

[HartfordWhalers]

I like it I think. Interesting trade.

[tiderulz]

With Jrue as a starter (and if healthy he should be) Payton is most definitely the backup and now we have a $7mil 3rd string PG on the bench. It could help limit the minutes on Jrue, hopefully keeping him healthier. His injury history really scares me though.

In all fairness, you already have a $5m 3rd sting PG on the bench, so it's not much different. And, in terms of caliber of play inside a Frank Vogel system, you might already have DJ Augustin 3rd on the bench with CJ Watson playing ahead of him. However, in the meantime, you add a much better starting PG, so you have that going for you.

But, it is a fair and troublesome question of improving at PG, while removing your real only offensive option on the interior in Vucevic.

true. But Watson is only guaranteed $1mil after this year, so $6mil total. Not $28mil total.

[wise1-2]

I don't like it for Orlando. Payton will be much better this season without Oladipo and Skiles holding him back. Jrue would be a one year rental, and Vucevic is locked into a bargain contract.

Payton is holding Payton back. Wasn't Oladipo's fault that Payton is a non-factor as a legit scoring threat. It's on Payton to become more of a competent perimeter threat, because right now defenses respect his perimeter game as much as they do to Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan's.

So you're saying Oladipo and Skiles didn't hold him back at all? You think oladipo was a good compliment to his game, and Skiles put him in position to excel by taking the ball out of his hands?

[OrlandoNed]

I don't like it for Orlando. Payton will be much better this season without Oladipo and Skiles holding him back. Jrue would be a one year rental, and Vucevic is locked into a bargain contract.

Payton is holding Payton back. Wasn't Oladipo's fault that Payton is a non-factor as a legit scoring threat. It's on Payton to become more of a competent perimeter threat, because right now defenses respect his perimeter game as much as they do to Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan's.

So you're saying Oladipo and Skiles didn't hold him back at all? You think oladipo was a good compliment to his game, and Skiles put him in position to excel by taking the ball out of his hands?

Of course Skiles did, but Oladipo did not.

Payton and Oladipo's skillsets did not mesh well at all, but Oladipo was a much better overall player. To me, the worse player has to complement the better player not the other way around. Payton's lack of shooting hurt himself a lot more than Oladipo's passable shooting did. Oladipo is a capable 2 way player with legit value and Payton is a terrible offensive player, at a perimeter postion where that is unacceptable, with defense and playmaking that did not make up for it. Fortunately for Payton, he was far and away the best PG on the team and Orlando had another capable SG that made Oladipo more expendable.

[Trader_Joe]

I love that fans of other teams just dismiss any opinion the fans of teams that they actually follow.

I don't think that happens here at all.

I think fans of teams have the best idea about fit, direction and how a trade could impact their team. But, I think their take on value is often (and unsurprisingly) skewed in favor of their own players for a variety of reasons. Value is just one element of a trade (a major one of course) and thus their input is very helpful, especially when they explain their rationale and there is a chance to decipher between value/fit/direction/finances/etc.

[wise1-2]

Payton is holding Payton back. Wasn't Oladipo's fault that Payton is a non-factor as a legit scoring threat. It's on Payton to become more of a competent perimeter threat, because right now defenses respect his perimeter game as much as they do to Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan's.

So you're saying Oladipo and Skiles didn't hold him back at all? You think oladipo was a good compliment to his game, and Skiles put him in position to excel by taking the ball out of his hands?

Of course Skiles did, but Oladipo did not.

Payton and Oladipo's skillsets did not mesh well at all, but Oladipo was a much better overall player. To me, the worse player has to complement the better player not the other way around. Payton's lack of shooting hurt himself a lot more than Oladipo's passable shooting did. Oladipo is a capable 2 way player with legit value and Payton is a terrible offensive player, at a perimeter postion where that is unacceptable, with defense and playmaking that did not make up for it. Fortunately for Payton, he was far and away the best PG on the team and Orlando had another capable SG that made Oladipo more expendable.

They held each other back, but Oladipo didn't provide the spacing that Payton needs, and he isn't very good off the ball. It has nothing to do with who the better player is. Payton will find it much easier playing with Fournier than Oladipo.

[jayjaysee]

I don't really like it for either team.

If Jrue gets hurt in Orlando or walks, they are left with Asik's contract. If Vuc/Davis don't pair well, NO gave up a good fitting starting pg for a poor fit.

If Jrue works out, Orlando has to pay him the max to keep him and loses flexibility before AG/Mario prove themselves while burying Elf. It makes them better this season but in my opinion it would lower their ceiling long term by rushing to the 6th (ish) seed.

If Vuc/Davis work out, NO is forcing Reke into a high usage lead guard role - which he isn't healthy nor good enough for imo. I think having a weak center next to AD is better than a weak PG.

[Scoot McGroot]

With Jrue as a starter (and if healthy he should be) Payton is most definitely the backup and now we have a $7mil 3rd string PG on the bench. It could help limit the minutes on Jrue, hopefully keeping him healthier. His injury history really scares me though.

In all fairness, you already have a $5m 3rd sting PG on the bench, so it's not much different. And, in terms of caliber of play inside a Frank Vogel system, you might already have DJ Augustin 3rd on the bench with CJ Watson playing ahead of him. However, in the meantime, you add a much better starting PG, so you have that going for you.

But, it is a fair and troublesome question of improving at PG, while removing your real only offensive option on the interior in Vucevic.

true. But Watson is only guaranteed $1mil after this year, so $6mil total. Not $28mil total.

Sure, but Augustin could still easily be the 3rd string PG anyway, so $28m already on the bench.