RealGM

Atlanta Hawks get:
Brook Lopez

-Gives: Dwight Howard

Why: If they get the sense that "Dwight will be Dwight", they may decide to go in a different direction. Adding Brook Lopez to a winning team will probably rejuvenate him and he looks like a solid fit in Budenholzer's system.

Brooklyn Net get:
Frank Kaminsky
Miles Plumlee
Ramon Sessions

-Gives: Brook Lopez

Why: They add a young prospect with a solid skill set if they can develop him beyond what it looks like he will be in Charlotte. Having some one like that on a rookie contract is probably more valuable to the Nets than what Brook Lopez could provide for them.

Charlotte Hornets get:
Dwight Howard

-Gives: Frank Kaminsky, Miles Plumlee and Ramon Sessions

Why: For all of Dwight Howard's faults, he gives a lot of what Charlotte needs. Even off the court, Dwight Howard at least adds a "buzz" to the team that it seems this team could use. They don't break the bank to get him either.

This feels pretty light for Brooklyn, in my opinion.

I'm not sure I believe in the Brook being a good fit. Atlanta's biggest weakness the past several years have been their severe lack of rebounding. Horford wasn't a great rebounding presence and bringing in Dwight made a huge difference. With Brook instead of Dwight Atlanta goes from being 5th in the league in rpg to 29th.

too light for Brooklyn, especially having to eat plumlees contract

I'd agree that this is not very good for Brooklyn. Frank is ok but Plumlee's contract is a negative - the sum does not equal Lopez.

You list one reason for the Nets to do this being the rookie scale contract of Kaminsky being cheaper than Brook. But the trade pairs Kaminsky with a salary dump of Miles Plumlee and Sessions, which pretty much negates any such advantage of a rookie contract. The Nets end up giving up a productive expiring asset of Brook's 22.6M for a package of 21.4M, with Plumlee on the books till 2020. So any financial advantage of Frank's rookie contract is entirely negated by this trade.

The Nets have already been there, done that with a risky older vet recovering from surgery in the Vasquez experiment. I don't think they are eager to repeat that Vasquez experiment with a Sessions who went out for the season to get meniscus surgery. Since Sessions is on a team option, he cannot be traded unless the option is picked up first, which locks the Nets into his salary for next year and having to gamble that he will return healthy like the failed gamble on Vasquez. Sessions also wasn't particularly great even when healthy this season. The combination of his play, his salary, and his surgery and age is not an attractive package. It could be a repeat of Vasquez.

Further, I don't think Kaminsky fits into the Nets culture anyway. Apparently he is an immature a-hole whose goofball jocularity can manifest as mean-spiritedness to staffers and others he considers beneath him. A Hornets employee went on Reddit and said that Kaminsky is the worst a-hole on the team when it comes to treating ballboys and other staffers. The employee even foolishly put up a picture of his Hornets ID badge to prove his identity, before redditors warned him to remove the picture before someone in the Hornets sees it and fires him. Other redditors who claimed to know Kaminsky from high school confirmed the cocky a-hole impression.

Basically, Frank is the opposite of LeVert. LeVert is a mature and poised young man who had to grow up in a hurry with his father's death. Kaminsky is a goofy immature kid whose jokes shade into cocky mean-spiritedness that he may think is funny and is an a-hole in how he treats people lower in the food chain such as staffers.

So this trade takes away the largest trade chip the Nets have without even returning a pick. Removes a productive expiring contract and saddles the Nets with a long term salary dump like Plumlee that negates the financial value of Kaminsky's rookie contract, in addition to no immediate salary improvement since Sessions needs to have his option picked up before the trade (not allowed to trade players who may become free agents this summer now that the trade deadline is past). It includes a potential repeat of the failed Vasquez experiment with notable money in a 31 year old Sessions out for the season with surgery, occupying salary space and not great last year even when healthy. And an immature a-hole Kaminsky who doesn't fit the Nets culture and who provides none of the financial benefits of a rookie scale contract (Plumlee's salary dump remains on the books beyond the cheap team option years left on Kaminsky's contract). Further it exchanges the one roster spot Brook occupies for 3 roster spots to complete the trade, when the Nets already have a roster spot crunch and will need to draft-and-stash to work around the lack of roster spots (3 new rookies if they exercise all 3 picks this summer). This trade only exacerbates the roster spot crunch problem when it would benefit the Nets more to do a consolidation 3- or 2- for 1 trade instead.

Easy no for the Nets. Nets are better off keeping Big Disney.

Character assassination via Reddit. Cool.

yosemiteben wrote:Character assassination via Reddit. Cool.

I suppose it is possible that the Hornets employee has a personal beef with Kaminsky. But he did post a picture of his Hornets ID badge and went on to do Q&A of lots of Hornets related questions. The Frank thing was just a tiny throwaway tidbit and not even the focus, since he answered a bunch of Hornets related questions. Someone just asked him who was the A-hole on the team amidst a ton of other Hornets questions he answered on reddit.

Even if the Kaminsky stuff were true - and I'm not saying one way or another - I wonder whether or not it matters to teammates at all. And ultimately, that's the big thing. It could be that Kaminsky is a jackass, but so is Blake, and that doesnt/shouldn't diminish his value on-court.

That all said, Nets need some incentive here. Sure they get a young player, but if he's paired with a big contract, it might as well be a young player on a big contract. I understand Lopez doesnt carry much value, but if I'm them, I'd rather see a pick + a bad contract than a young guy due a big contract paired with a guy who's already a big contract. I see it this way - either the Hornets have to pay to get Dwight, or the Hawks have to pay to shed Dwight. Frankly, I lean towards the Hornets paying, simply because Dwight is a known pain in the ass but is still an upgrade to what they have, chemistry aside. I think a drop from 11 to 27 would be enough (along w/subtracting Kaminsky), but would Hornets do that?

And furthermore, would Hawks just cut the Nets out and deal with the Hornets themselves? Land Kaminsky or the 11 and a bad contract for Dwight?

I wouldnt trade Frank straight up for Dwight if the money were out of it personally...

Frank has shown glimpses of real potential as a scorer and playmaker, Dwight is on the down side of his career (a career pretty much exclusively based on athleticism)

At this point, based on our system, Zeller gives us most of what Dwight would, on top of being younger and not being Dwight Howard...

And yes Miles' contract is garbage, especially if he doesnt get back in shape, but its not like free agents are banging on Charlotte's door to sign anyway

CatgutStitches wrote:I wouldnt trade Frank straight up for Dwight if the money were out of it personally...

Frank has shown glimpses of real potential as a scorer and playmaker, Dwight is on the down side of his career (a career pretty much exclusively based on athleticism)

At this point, based on our system, Zeller gives us most of what Dwight would, on top of being younger and not being Dwight Howard...

And yes Miles' contract is garbage, especially if he doesnt get back in shape, but its not like free agents are banging on Charlotte's door to sign anyway

Looks like 8 NBA front offices agree with your assessment of Dwight's low value.

Hell. Yes.

Get this done ASAP.

Dwight/Zeller
Marvin/JOB
MKG/Lamb
Batum/Graham/Marco
Kemba/Weber

+ #11 and MLE

beautiful

ATL cuts Nets out and offers

DH for Kaminshy / Plumlee / Sessions / 2017 second #41

Charlotte gets out of two bad contracts, moves a young C with maybe starter potential and a second for a run with Howard. Should get them solidly in the playoffs.

ATL starts rebuild hoping they can do something with Kaminsky

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Hell. Yes.

Get this done ASAP.

Dwight/Zeller
Marvin/JOB
MKG/Lamb
Batum/Graham/Marco
Kemba/Weber

+ #11 and MLE

beautiful

Missing a sg/combo guard or even pg to strengthen the backcourt, but with the position in the draft, that could be easily fixed (straight or through trades). And this way Clifford would be able to play Batum a little more at sf especially when he plays with the bench (with Zeller).

It would be crazy for the Nets to agree on such a trade but for Charlotte that would absolutely be a best case scenario, even if it means parting ways with Kaminsky (and his very promising games in 2017).
Hard to know what to expect from Atlanta with a new GM (when they get him).

I just looked, apparently Howard has a trade kicker in his contract though.

ps @tbhawksfan1 : Sessions is on a team option, highly doubtful that he comes back.

bravor wrote:

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Hell. Yes.

Get this done ASAP.

Dwight/Zeller
Marvin/JOB
MKG/Lamb
Batum/Graham/Marco
Kemba/Weber

+ #11 and MLE

beautiful

Missing a sg/combo guard or even pg to strengthen the backcourt, but with the position in the draft, that could be easily fixed (straight or through trades). And this way Clifford would be able to play Batum a little more at sf especially when he plays with the bench (with Zeller).

It would be crazy for the Nets to agree on such a trade but for Charlotte that would absolutely be a best case scenario, even if it means parting ways with Kaminsky (and his very promising games in 2017).
Hard to know what to expect from Atlanta with a new GM (when they get him).

I just looked, apparently Howard has a trade kicker in his contract though.

ps @tbhawksfan1 : Sessions is on a team option, highly doubtful that he comes back.

Yup, and if we were to truly go all in for the next 2-3 years, some combo of Marco+Lamb+Marvin+11 could get us a really nice piece. MKG and Batum can take care of any two positions 2-4, so we could use a major improvement at any position.

Dwight's salary kicker doesn't matter for us, we're over the cap with this move until 2019 anyway (when Kemba, MKG (PO), Marvin (PO), Lamb, and Dwight would all come off the books at the same time).

I like the idea of going all in. We have two years before over this team (i.e. Kemba and MKG) is due for new contracts and I'm terrified at the thought of Kemba leaving because we didn't win enough with this unit. As long as our future past 2019 isn't compromised, I'm open to basically anything that makes this team better the next two years.

So, what we've learned is that CHA fans reeeeeally, reeeeeeally want Dwight Howard ....

... but they want someone else to buy him for them.

Come on, guys, there's nothing to your offer.

parson wrote:So, what we've learned is that CHA fans reeeeeally, reeeeeeally want Dwight Howard ....

... but they want someone else to buy him for them.

Come on, guys, there's nothing to your offer.

What's the mechanism driving his market above a salary dump? A 32-year center who can't make FT's, can't pass or space the floor, wants touches but is a turnover machine, making $23M/yr.

tbhawksfan1 wrote:ATL cuts Nets out and offers

DH for Kaminshy / Plumlee / Sessions / 2017 second #41

Charlotte gets out of two bad contracts, moves a young C with maybe starter potential and a second for a run with Howard. Should get them solidly in the playoffs.

ATL starts rebuild hoping they can do something with Kaminsky

Sessions has a team option, so one bad contract. I've never been a huge Dwight fan and I like him less on each team he joins. So Charlotte will probably trade for him just to troll me, that's lolcatz bball

Mystical Apples wrote:

parson wrote:So, what we've learned is that CHA fans reeeeeally, reeeeeeally want Dwight Howard ....

... but they want someone else to buy him for them.

Come on, guys, there's nothing to your offer.

What's the mechanism driving his market above a salary dump? A 32-year center who can't make FT's, can't pass or space the floor, wants touches but is a turnover machine, making $23M/yr.

For one thing, I didn't argue Howard's value; I simply noted that CHA fans want him.

For another, you neglected to mention he lifted the Hawks from the worst rebounding team in the association to the 5th best and improved our defense.

He gums up our offense; that's the problem.

Your post still ignores the fact that some folks want him. That alone would indicate value, don'tcha think?

I pointed out that the OP realizes that CHA's offer is trash, so asks BKN to pay a hefty price (out of the goodness of their heat, apparently) in order for CHA to acquire Howard.

parson wrote:

Mystical Apples wrote:

parson wrote:So, what we've learned is that CHA fans reeeeeally, reeeeeeally want Dwight Howard ....

... but they want someone else to buy him for them.

Come on, guys, there's nothing to your offer.

What's the mechanism driving his market above a salary dump? A 32-year center who can't make FT's, can't pass or space the floor, wants touches but is a turnover machine, making $23M/yr.

For another, you neglected to mention he lifted the Hawks from the worst rebounding team in the association to the 5th best and improved our defense.

He gums up our offense; that's the problem.

Your post still ignores the fact that some folks want him. That alone would indicate value, don'tcha think?

I pointed out that the OP realizes that CHA's offer is trash, so asks BKN to pay a hefty price (out of the goodness of their heat, apparently) in order for CHA to acquire Howard.

ATL was better without Howard and it was down right ugly without Millsap. Ewww....

$23M Howard On, Millsap Off
NetRtg: -5.4
DefRtg: 109.7

Millsap On, $1M Muscala instead of Howard
NetRtg: +4.4
DefRtg: 105.4