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Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 3:16 pm
by HartfordWhalers
Philadelphia Offseason Review

Key Losses:
none

Losses:
Shawn Long
Gerald Henderson
Sergio Rodriquez
Tiago Splitter

Draft:
#1 Markelle Fultz (traded for)
#3 (traded)
#25 Anzejs Pasecniks (traded for and stashed)
#36 Jonah Bolden (stashed)
#39 Juwan Evans (traded)
#46 Sterling Brown (traded)
#50 Mathias Lessort (stashed)

Trades:
#3 and LAL ’18 1st (2-5) if best of SAC/Phi ’19 1st top 1 protected for #1 Fultz
’20 OKC 1st (top 20 protected one time then 2 2nds) and less favorable NYK/BKN ’20 2nd for #25 Pasecniks
Shawn Long to Houston Rockets for $100,000 and a 2018 second rounder.
Jawun Evans to Los Angeles Clippers for $3.2 million.
Sterling Brown to Milwaukee Bucks for $1.9 million.

Free Agency:
Markelle Fultz rookie scale
Furkan Korkmaz (2016 1st rounder) rookie scale
JJ Redick 1/23m
Amir Johnson 1/11m

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Markelle Fultz, T.J. McConnell, Jerry Bayless
SG: J.J. Redick, Nik Stauskas, Furkan Korkmaz
SF: Robert Covington, Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot
PF: Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Amir Johnson
C: Joel Embiid, Jahlil Okafor, Richaun Holmes


HartfordWhalers wrote:HartfordWhalers Review

Losses:
Henderson/Rodriquez/Bayless combined to have close to zero production in their first season after being the free agent splashes by Colangelo. I say close to zero, because Henderson and Rodriquez both ranked worse than replacement player by BPM for instance. Some serious addition by subtraction is happening here.

The only actual loss? Shawn Long. Who still was more noteworthy for being involved in the play where Simmons broke his foot than for his on the court play. But I'm going to watch how he develops, because his initial play was very promising.

Draft:
Fultz seems a perfect fit with a core of Fultz/Simmons/Embiid. Add Covington who could fit with anyone in the league, and you have a real roster. Couldn't have gotten a better fit, although some argue that Ball would have been that. I think Fultz's better scoring fits better than Ball's better passing. What is more interesting is the stats model's that put Ball as a higher tier prospect. If that is the case, then I would argue that a worse fit for a higher tier player who still fits very well is worth it, and Ball should have been the pick. But I'm not sold on Ball as the better prospect than Fultz, guess time will tell.

It is hard to judge the rest of the Sixers draft without keeping in mind they were unwilling to add roster spots.

Anžejs Pasečņiks, Jonah Bolden and Mathias Lessort all stashed, while Juwan Evans and Sterling Brown sold for cash only?

Lets say that looks like a crap performance. Getting over 5m in cash in the next year to circumvent the CBA is some fine GM'ing from an owner's perspective, but it sucks from a fan perspective. But it is CBA noteworthy, the Sixers sold 17 draft picks into the 18 season to get around cash limits, effectively raising 8.5m in cash incoming in a season with a 3.5m cash cash incoming limit. For a team that just broke their own record in terms of new season ticket subscriptions --http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19702019/76ers-break-team-record-season-tickets-expect-sell-home -- this sort of behavior would make me nervous as a fan.

Back on the actual pick, if you look before him when Collins/Fergusen/Giles/Allen all went that area looked like an interesting upside tier and then Philly rolls into the area just after that and takes Pasečņiks and I'm not sure there is that much intrigue. Would it have been more interesting with Josh Hart actually on the roster instead of the stash, maybe Semi Ojeleye on the roster over the stash of Bolden, or keeping Evans and seeing if he cannot push Bayless off the team? Sure.

After pick #1, this draft seemed lackluster except as a raiser of cold hard cash. It contrasts with last draft, where I loved the upside flier on Korkmaz and was torn on the upside of TLC (athletic tools versus poor age and historical shooting). Here it whimpered. But Bolden can block shots (and not rebound), and for the goal of using a bunch of draft picks and not getting a player, they succeeded, I suppose. The draft minus the trade/pick of Fultz looks like an F to me.

Trades:
Oh boy...
My take for Boston was 'superstar or bust'. As in top 6 guy not top 30 guy.
How likely is Fultz, anyone available at #3, and the future pick to get that guy?

Less likely than Embiid (and/or Simmons) might grow into that guy, imo. So, maybe Philly can trim those odds a touch and get a perfect compliment to help them grow into that stardom.
I'm not sure, thus the maybe. It is really essential you have that star if your goal is getting to the moon and winning it all. Course, maybe the ownership that is collecting cash at a record rate in trades is balancing that goals with profitability goals and you cannot overlook the value of having a functional looking team.
And have I mentioned how great the fit of Fultz is? And Fultz as the guy everyone knew was going #1 clearly does have some serious upside.
Ultimately if it is #3 and '18 #3 for #1 I have to like this for Boston (minus what they with #3), but if it is instead #3 and #8 in '19 then it is a loss for Boston. But thats back to Boston's side. For Philly, the gain from going from figuring out what to do at #3 is big as the fit of Jackson/Tatum/Isaac was always awful, so Monk/DSJ looked to be the pick (DSJ maybe makes that not such a big deal...) Still, the fits at #3 with the sf's projected there looked so brutal for Philly that they can lose the trade some and still win it.

So, I have it as a high risk win. But it was a transformational style trade for Philly and will alter their future going forward.

The draft trades were already touched on, but OKC getting George makes that Pasecniks trade maybe look better? The top 20 protected pick is either going to be 25+ or a pair of 2nds, with no low 20's pick likely imo. It is one of those rare trades were both teams seemed to be trading {future assets} for {future assets}, so it is a bet on Pasecniks long term trade chip value. Meh. He is tall but that alone isn't enough.

The Shawn Long trade was selling off a guy who looks like a legit NBA player for as close to nothing as you can. It was also getting a super late 2nd for a guy who was an undrafted free agent and at a point a 10 day contract guy. The first perspective makes me dislike it, even over bringing him to camp and seeing if he doesn't make you cut/trade someone else and just cutting him if not.

Free Agency:
I'm glad they didn't do long term damage. But did they really help themselves long term? Next year they still need a Redick type, and one that can grow or at least be there later with the core. Giving spacing for Fultz/Simmons/Embiid and teaching them pass = basket (versus missed shot) might be worth it anyway. I'm good on this, if skeptical of how much it adds to player development. After all, Philly going 42-40 versus 35-47 could make a big difference come next summer on who is attracted to the team.

Amir is another story. He was a key loss for Boston, as his full season defensive contributions were essential to preventing the defense from being even worse than it was. But that doesn't make him a key gain going forward. After all:
Does he have that left? And does he fit into Philly's rotation? And to the extent worth what else could have been done with that cap room?

I come back with at least 2 negatives. So I would have rather had Shawn Long and 10m in cap space than Amir and a Houston 2nd (and 100k cash). That doesn't even feel close.

The flip side argument? Okafor has great length, and good offensive footwork. He just doesn't close out well/react well to pick and rolls, floating back to the hoop. If Amir is an 11m personal coach to Okafor for all teh things that make Amir an absolute plus minus stud and Okafor a huge negative there (although the double center lineups made that worse), then it could be even better than Redick signing and absolutely brilliant. People forget how good Okafor's individual offense was and just look at the team numbers. I cannot believe in this without any justification just to salvage Okafor, but if it happens I might have to have a Colangelo was right sig or something.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Markelle Fultz, T.J. McConnell, Jerry Bayless
SG: J.J. Redick, Nik Stauskas, Furkan Korkmaz
SF: Robert Covington, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, Justin Anderson,
PF: Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Amir Johnson
C: Joel Embiid, Richaun Holmes, Jahlil Okafor

I moved TLC in front of Anderson and Holmes in front of Okafor. The mess of:
Stauskas/Korkmaz
TLC/Anderson
will be interesting for minutes and how it breaks out depending upon swing skill development (or lack there of). Stauskas (defense), Korkamz (defense), TLC (shooting), Anderson (shooting)

Needs:
A long term solution at SG, versus one year of Redick.
Covington locked in long term (can R&E in Nov to a 15m/10/10/10 style deal with teh 15 replacing this season's 1m.)
An Okafor trade, (or Okafor development and a Holmes trade)

Additional Thoughts:
For everyone who said that the process permanently turned off fans, Philly is going to have a borderline playoff team and has record breaking attendance. Sorry, your hot take isn't just a hot take, it is entirely wrong. Philly both reset expectations (give fans the same 40 win record every year and they get fatigued and want more to stay the same level satisfied with it -- and generated new interest that wasn't even there before. Long term it was a smart business decision and same for the health of the NBA -- cause those ticket sales equal money. It was done as brutally as possible to make the down period shorter/the upside post down period higher, so just hating the downside while ignoring what it was traded for never made any sense.

Projected Win/Loss: 37-45
I had this at 38, then backed it down one more win. Let the growing pains happen.

Off-Season Grade: B+
So. lets see:
Got Fulz but
Screwed around the rest of the draft
Got short term spacing for the roster but
Screwed around getting a long term solution for shooting at sg
Didn't create long term cap issues but
Didn't use current cap space to help future team either (yet)

A mixed bag, but getting Fultz is big enough to get a B+ to me. Maybe even A-. But it did cost in future assets and the whole thing felt like last summer's Nets offseason -- a big idea and then no follow through elsewhere afterwards. If there was any thought that Fultz alone could make this an A, not having the Okafor trade done yet makes it a B+. And seriously, selling a pick better than #40 for cash only should mean you cannot get an A.


Slava wrote:Slava's Philadelphia Review

Losses:
Sergio and Henderson were 5th and 6th in terms of total minutes played and you could argue that both would have been much lower had injuries not taken out Embiid and Simmons. They were also bordering on 30 and not particularly good at any one thing to even consider retaining for longer.

Draft:
I like the idea of Fultz here. He is a bouncy guard who can run pick and rolls, shoot well and seems to have a complete package in terms of skill set required for a modern NBA guard. There were questions about competitiveness and usually its hard go gauge players based on stats in non-traditional and weaker conferences in college especially without tournament play to find a good indicator of how a player responds to better physically equipped defenders and coaching schemes but he seems a very snug fit next to Simmons if you consider him the lead ball handler or someone who can run pick and rolls/pops with Embiid.

Jonah Bolden received some rave reviews based on summer league player and some analysts even peg him as a potential lottery pick. He surely has the size and wing span to be an elite defender who fits the mold of a modern NBA wing.

I do not have a good enough opinion on Pasecniks to talk more about that pick so I’ll leave it to the others.

Trades:
Of course the big move here is trading up for the #1 pick. I kind of liked Colangelo’s decisiveness in not playing the odds and going for the player he felt fit his roster best. Getting the #1 protection made it even better from Philly’s perspective so they could have a shot at someone like Doncic who would be another great fit if things stand as they are or one of the other big men if Embiid fails to sustain a period of good health in what is likely to be a big heavy draft.

I can understand those who probably don't like selling the 2nd rounders but I’d guess a return to some level of competency was made in good conscience so Brett Brown doesn’t lose his will to coach being surrounded by more fringe prospects for another season.

Free Agency:
I’m ambivalent about the deal for Redick, on paper he makes the starting unit fit well as now they have 4/5 players who can reliably hit the open 3 and its only for a season so if the roster impresses more than expected they could still be in play to recruit free agents in what is shaping up to be a buyer’s market with many quality players and not a lot of cap space left. Its all good until Colangelo ends up maxing out someone like Avery Bradley to hamstring the operation.

The Amir Johnson deal makes absolutely no sense at all even if it is for just a season. You have Richaun Holmes who has shown to be a very reliable back up big, you need minutes to showcase Okafor to salvage any modicum of trade value before you end up accepting a top 55 protected 2nd for him as you approach the option years on his rookie deal and this is before you look at the log jam at PF with Simmons, Saric and even Covington, Anderson etc capable of sliding over to the 4 in small ball line ups. That was either Colangelo greasing the wheels for an agent ahead of free agency play next summer at best or a major fail at pushing for an 8th seed at worst.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
Rejoice Brett Brown for gone are the days when you have to awkwardly fit in 2 centers into a line up and run around with a dumbbell tied to each shoe. If healthy, this promises to be an exciting young line up with solid shooting followed up with a capable reserve unit. There are bound to be growing pains and its best not to set a playoff mandate but its reasonable enough to be excited to tune into games now.

Needs:
A healthy season, mostly from Embiid and to an extent from Simmons
Some kind of resolution for Okafor
Progress on an acceptable extension for Covington

Additional Thoughts:
The most important thing going forward for Philly is a full season to evaluate Joel Embiid’s long term health prospects as he is now eligible for an extension. Their ceiling vacillates between super awesome or the Wolves of the past 11 years based on if he can be relied upon to shoulder the offensive and defensive load expected from a 23 year old franchise center.

Big men with back injuries pose a significant risk, big men with foot injuries pose an even bigger risk and Joel Embiid has had the misfortune of suffering both. He has played no more than 35 competitive games at NBA level, even those under heavy minutes and back to back restrictions while bing held out of every summer league since being drafted. He was late to basketball as a kid and suffered a back injury halfway into a single season at Kansas. So its acceptable to be cautiously pessimistic about his long term outlook and plan accordingly.

It would be majorly uncomfortable for him to miss time and play on a qualifying offer next season or worse offer him a max extension with nothing but good faith as your guiding light.

Projected Win/Loss: 32-50
With a healthy Embiid for 60+ games, 38-44

Off-Season Grade: B


bondom34 wrote:Bondom34's Philadelphia Offseason Review

Losses:

Draft:
Well they got the clear number 1 pick and a guy in Bolden I was really high on early in the 2nd round. Solid draft though I also would have liked to keep Evans, but that's a slight nitpick.

Trades:
Loved trading up with Boston, this move felt like a great time to cash in an extra asset to get a better shot at your guy. I would have liked them to keep Evans as I said, but nothing major, and the other 2 deals are relatively inconsequential.

Free Agency:
I'm going to use my unpopular take here and admit I wasn't a fan of the Redick deal. It's 1 year so it doesn't really matter but man that's too much money for me. I do however love Amir's contract more than most others, so I guess it evens out? Feels like a solid free agency too.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)

Needs:
Experience, and health. That's pretty much it. I'd also hope Sauce keeps improving and they can find a taker for Okafor.

Additional Thoughts:
One of a handful of teams I'm just really looking forward to seeing this year, I think they break into the postseason and will be a ton of fun if they're even reasonably healthy.

Projected Win/Loss: 39-43

Off-Season Grade: B+


Mamba4Goat wrote:Mamba4Goat Philly Review

Key Losses:
See additional thoughts

Losses:
Sergio wouldn't have been too bad to keep around, however all in all, I'm not losing any sleep without any of these guys being on the team.

Draft:
I like Fultz and hope they've finally struck gold and got a healthy star, I'm excited to see him play (Simmons too).

Trades:
Okay, may be unpopular, but I don't like the trade with Boston. Fultz or Ball could have very well been around at 3 and with a rather saturated point guard market and a decently scarce wing market, Tatum or Jackson wouldn't have been a bad pick either. Instead they gave up a pick that could be decently high and the 3rd pick to move up to hope that Fultz is the guy they need.

On the other hand, I don't mind the trade with Orlando, at the time OKC's odds of sending that pick looked bleak, but then they got PG. Can't hate for that.

Free Agency:
I like the JJ signing, he helps a lot with the spacing and at the very worst, he's a massive expiring. Dude is a very smart player though, fills a huge need, has a lot of experience, and is a great locker room presence. Can't see how it's not a win. I'm rather indifferent about Amir, but at the worse, he's a 3/4th string center and a big expiring. It's good to see Korkmaz come over, it'll be interesting to see what he can do too.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
They're a rather deep team and have some nice potential to make some noise this year, however, they're still young. I like Brett Brown though and I expect him to get the most out of this team, especially Fultz.

Needs:
Health, health, and some more health. It would be a dream come true to see Embiid finish a full season. The team as a whole is rather green and another year of experience for everyone is going to be helpful. Health permitting, I expect the team at game 80 to be significantly better than the team we see at game 1. They could use less distractions too, dump Okafur for the best offer available, maybe consolidate some youth and get a proven above average starter too but mainly, everybody just needs time and health.

Additional Thoughts:
I see Philly having a similar season to last year's Heat. Start off the season looking lotto bound and then wake up and kill the 2nd half of the season. However, I think they'll dig too big of a hole and won't be able to overcome it. It'll be good momentum for the following year though.

It may be unfair, but I'm gonna toss Nerlans Noel here as a key loss. They held on to him too long, killed his value and traded him for 2 2nds. Now (in hindsight) he's a RFA and may get resigned for a pretty solid deal. The center lineup is Okafur (in the dog house, allergic to defense), Embiid (all we can do is pray that he's healthy), Holmes (pretty decent backup, nothing to call home about though), and now Amir (meh, he's getting old and health is a concern too.) I think they'll be missing Noel a lot this year.

Projected Win/Loss: 35-47
See above^^. I don't think this will be their year, but I expect a lot from them in 2019.

Off-Season Grade: C
Sat on Okafur longer, losing even more value, potentially dropped him down on the depth chart too. Also the Boston trade bumps them down a little.


BullyKing wrote:BullyKing's Philadelphia Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Sergio Rodriguez (kidding)

Losses:
Flexibility as discussed in greater detail below.

Draft:
I don’t think you can really discuss the draft without the trade to No. 1 so I’ll combine those discussions and leave the “trades” section for discussing the Shawn Long blockbuster.

For a team that entered the lottery with the fourth best odds, the Kings swap on top, and the Lakers pick as a possibility, walking away with just 3 felt like a disappointment. That feeling only grew as I started looking closer at the prospects that might be there at 3 (i.e., everyone but Fultz).

Ball: The shot form just plain scares me. I just question whether he will be able to get it off consistently in the pros where the players are longer and spacing is hard to come by. Don’t get me wrong, Ball is a fantastic prospect, will be a fantastic distributor and I love how he pushes the pace. Its just that I don’t think those strengths necessarily align with the Sixers needs as Simmons will be the primary ball distributor and one of his best traits is grabbing a rebound and pushing the ball himself. So I’m not sure he would consistently give the post-rebound ball to Ball in order for Ball to then whip it ahead.

Jackson: Lack of shot is an obvious fit issue with Simmons and I’m also a big guy on age so the fact that he was a year older than most 1 and done players was off-putting. Embiid was also an older one and done but that was less of a concern to me since he did not have the benefit of extra playing experience from being older (quite the opposite).

Isaac: Love him. But we needed a guard or wing and I think long term he projects as your prototypical stretch 4 (with defense!) once he fills out.

DSJ: Would have been my preferred pick had we stayed at 3. My concerns with him were only his defense (short stature/length makes it unlikely to be a positive even if he starts trying) and injuries. But I was a big fan.

So as I looked at these prospects more and more, my mind kept going back to Fultz. As I’ve admitted elsewhere, I don’t consider my scouting takes to be gospel so I don’t take my own views that seriously on this. But conceptually, Fultz seemed like the perfect fit. Comfortable both on ball and off, great in the pick and roll, good shooter from distance and the midrange, and the length to have the potential to be a good defender as well. He was also young for the class and a late bloomer, which I like.

So while I pinned for Fultz, I’m always loathe to give up draft picks and the thought of Ainge taking Colangelo to the cleaners terrified me. In the end though, I think Colangelo did quite well in this trade. It sucks to lose either the LAL or SAC pick but it is going to hurt a little when you’re trading up for the first pick in the draft. I was first happy that we were only trading one pick after seeing reports of both included (because of initial confusion on these protections) and I believe an Aldridge report that a future Philly 1st was also involved. I think Colangelo protecting both the LAL and SAC picks for No. 1 was also an unexpected negotiating coup. Ultimately, at some point the Sixers were going to have to do something bold to try and get that third wheel with Simmons and Embiid and this seems a reasonable a shot to take as any. The point guards in future drafts don’t look as promising and Simmons requires a very specific point guard skill set that Fultz has. I can’t fault Colangelo for taking a shot on Fultz when he still remained one, or maybe both, of our premium picks going forward while protecting himself against trading a future No. 1.

I was also a fan of the Bolden fit and it makes sense for the present and future. Bolden agreeing to spend another year overseas was an important element given Philly’s roster crunch. It will also push back his rookie contract to years where cheap backup labor is increasingly important.

I was not a fan of the rest of the draft. The Pascenicks trade was fine as that future OKC pick was relatively worthless in my view. A stashed big man also makes sense if you envision him taking the backup spot from Holmes in two years when Holmes will likely be paid more as a UFA than we want to commit to a backup center. I’m not even going to pretend to have a strong enough opinion on whether Pascenicks is the right guy for that role.

I hated everything else. Lessort does nothing for me and high effort, low skill big men are available for the minimum year round. Selling picks for cash is one of my least favorite things and I wish the NBA would get rid of it. I hate it and there is absolutely no reason for a team like the Sixers that have gamed the cap floor for years to do it. To this day I cannot fathom why we didn’t just use those picks on stash guys. Even someone like Jeanne just so you have his rights in case he is ever cleared.

Trades:
Some Sixers fans were upset when we traded Shawn Long. I don’t see it and couldn’t believe how many people were projecting him to make the team. Getting a 2nd for him when everyone else got nothing for trading their unguaranteed players to Houston seemed like a coup. Of course, we’ll just sell the pick in the end so I’ll end up hating this move also.

Free Agency:
I had written off Redick since by all accounts he was looking for a long term contract. Otherwise, he would have been number one realistic target since he is a nearly perfect fit as a short term option with his shooting and ability to serve as a mentor. I did not see a long term option at shooting guard available this year so getting a placeholder while maintaining flexibility was ideal. As long as it was a one year deal, they could have given Redick the max for all I care.

I think the Amir Johnson signing was overkill. Was anyone else really competing with us to give Amir $11 million? If so, find another veteran mentor big man who would come for one year on a more reasonable price. I would have preferred using that money to take on a salary dump to replenish some assets lost in the Fultz trade.

Not necessarily free agency but Colangelo continues to build underwhelming summer league/camp fodder teams. Hinkie at least used to bring in interesting guys that had long shot potential.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from bbinsiders)
They may list it that way for trade value purposes but I think we all know Holmes is ahead of Okafor. I also think Brown will give Bayless every opportunity and then some to unseat TJ as the backup PG. While Brown loves McConnell, Bayless is a better fit for what they are trying to do and will be able to log minutes along Simmons, which McConnell simply cannot do. Staggering Simmons and Fultz will give the latter important time without Simmons to develop as a lead ball handling guard.

Needs:
We need to trade Okafor. I just can’t deal with another season of fights among the fanbase about this guy. It sucks that we will AT BEST get a late 1st (if lucky) for a guy we picked 3rd but that’s life and a perfect example of why Hinkie tanked to such an extreme.

We still need a long term shooting guard and additional depth on the wings, especially behind Covington at SF. We also need at least one of TLC and Korkmaz to step up as the future backup SG so we can let Stauskas walk at the end of the season and feel like that role is filled.

Additional Thoughts:
So at the start of this I mentioned flexibility. Colangelo had two offseasons to use our max space to lure a big free agent before the contracts for our young guys start coming in. One of those offseasons is now gone. I will be disappointed if we aren’t able to land a max guy to play either the two or three next offseason. Like Boston was able to land a guy the last offseason where it was realistically possible, we need to do the same next year.

I’m also figuring that Colangelo is on top of the Covington extension and plans to do what we’ve all been calling for in using the remaining cap space to pre-pay future years. Here is what I wrote recently on the topc:

BullyKing wrote:One interesting thing from JJ's podcast with Colangelo was Colangelo talking about the relationship between the money they spent on the big they wanted to add and the money they spent on the wing player. Once he said something along the lines of if we had missed on JJ, we would have offered less money to a different wing and then went after a different big man (no idea who). Then when JJ's agent squeezed a little more cash out of Colangelo, that meant Amir Johnson was going to get less (though I doubt anyone else was offering anything close to what we did).

So it is very clear to me that Colangelo was very set on spending no more than $34 million combined on a wing and a backup big. The only reason he would care if he spent $34 million or $35 million is that the deal with Covington is already agreed to and he knows exactly how much Cov is going to cost against this year's cap.


I also don’t think its out of the question that the Sixers and Redick have already discussed a long term contract. If Redick was looking for a 4 year/60 million deal, I could see Colangelo proposing that we would sign him for $23 million this year. Next offseason, we trade Bayless (8 million expiring) and Okafor will be gone one way or the other. Figure in a renegotiate and extend for Covington that has next year’s salary around $10-$12 million*. That should leave us with just enough room to sign a max free agent, sign Redick to a deal around 3/36 (so total package of 4/60 that he wanted) and then resign Embiid using bird rights. We can then use our first and the potential Lakers first on backup wings and a back up PG.
Dream 2017-2018 Depth Chart
PG: Fultz, [draft pick], McConnell
SG: Max free agent/Covington, Redick, TLC/Korkmaz
SF: Max free agent/Covington, [draft pick]
PF: Simmons, Saric, Bolden
C: Embiid, Holmes, Pasecniks

Yeah – I’d go to war with that team.

* For those wondering, if you figure Covington also gets a 4/60 deal (might be high given the contracts this offseason), we can pre-pay about $20 million of that this season (or $15 million if we don’t trade Okafor), so that would leave anywhere from 4/40 or 4/45 on the extension.

Projected Win/Loss: 41-41
I think a realistic range is anywhere from 30 wins to high 40s depending a little on how ready Fultz and Simmons are but predominantly on Embiid’s health. I took the easy way out and mid-pointed it.

Off-Season Grade: B+
I liked a lot of what the Sixers did this offseason and the things I didn’t like were much less consequential and/or nit picking (give me back my 2nds). But an A would have required landing that final long term piece on the wing. Since that wasn’t available, I think Colangelo did as well as could reasonably have been expected but that doesn’t get an A in my book. In the end though, it is encouraging that he is at least following the high level Hinkie plan of slow, steady building even if not down to the minutiae.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 3:48 pm
by Trader_Joe
I think Philly had a very good off-season.

To start, I think the trade for #1 was a win/win, but was perfect for Philly. Getting that potential franchise PG to pair with Simmons/Embiid. They may have given up another top 5 pick, but it's well worth it for them. The rest of the their draft was pretty solid and Pasecniks has intriguing potential for a guy his size and Bolden has high upside as well. They did kind of got stuck with too many seconds and had to sell some off, but it's not the end of the world.

I also liked the Reddick signing. The amount was high but....it's one year, they showed they can pull in high end free agents, and his shooting is much needed and might be enough to get them to the PO's this season. I did not like the Amir signing. He's done and for $11m, way overpaid. I get he's their to mentor, but the price is too high and hopefully they don't feel a need to play him.

I would like to see them move on from Okafor, but there is no rush I suppose. His value can't really get lower. I also think it will be interesting to see how they balance the front court minutes, especially assuming Embiid is healthy. I like Saric a lot, but wonder if he will be the odd man out and on the block.

B+/A- for me.

As for PO's...not sure they are their just yet. They have to incorporate 2 rookies in the starting unit and Embiid is a big question mark. They are so young as well. Boston, Cleveland, Toronto, Washington, Milwaukee all seem like locks and I think Charlotte had a sneaky good off-season. I think they will be fighting with Miami and Detroit for those final spots along with some overachieving dark-horse that always seems to surface,

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 4:48 pm
by loserX
Interesting to see the Philly review so soon after Boston's, with the two teams linked by one of the offseason's most intriguing (controversial?) transactions. I noticed during the offseason winners/losers threads how few people picked Philly as a winner, so I was curious to see the grades.

Best move: Landing #1. Even if you think the price was high, there is a lot of jazz that comes along with landing the #1 pick in a draft like this. Philly got "THE NUMBER ONE PICK" and for many people, any real criticism of the cost may have to wait a whole year until the 2018 draft :) Fultz is a very exciting prospect, and can be sold as the last piece of The Process: Phase I.

Worst move: most of the rest of the draft, including trading a future pick for #25 to draft another C. What was the need for this? And why sell second rounders, especially high ones, for cash? Josh Harris has been padding his wallet throughout the Hinkie years, there's no need to get cash-happy for assets now.

Overall I give the offseason a B+...it'll help if they can extend Covington with that extra cap. Just as a heads-up from a Jazz fan: it doesn't always work :(

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 4:58 pm
by Laimbeer
D for me. Might have been C- or D+ if that was available, but I had to put it below average. Didn't like the trade and the free agent signings were mediocre.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 5:09 pm
by sixerswillrule
I'd be shocked if Embiid plays 60+ games yet the team wins less than 40, unless other key guys go down. They would've won 35 last season with 60+ games of Embiid. Clearly the rotation will be significantly improved.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 6:35 pm
by GutUNC
Way too much attention being spent on Okafor in the Sixers offseason review. If he's dead weight, not getting a 2nd rounder for him has essentially zero impact on the future. It would be nice to close the chapter completely, but it's essentially a non-factor for how this team looks going forward considering he's never been any sort of issue in the locker room at all.

How people don't like the Fultz trade is beyond me, but everything's a matter of opinion.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 6:50 pm
by Mamba4Goat
GutUNC wrote:Way too much attention being spent on Okafor in the Sixers offseason review. If he's dead weight, not getting a 2nd rounder for him has essentially zero impact on the future. It would be nice to close the chapter completely, but it's essentially a non-factor for how this team looks going forward considering he's never been any sort of issue in the locker room at all.

How people don't like the Fultz trade is beyond me, but everything's a matter of opinion.


The attention on Okafur is rightfully deserved and speaks volumes of how big of a loss firing Hinkie was. They've held on to him way too long and murdered his value, like Noel. However, I think Jah can still shine in the right circumstance. Philly isn't enabling that though, they brought in Amir and have put Holmes in front of him, had endless rumors, took a big at 25, and gave him DNP's last year. They could've did this soo much better. With how saturated the big man market is now, Philly is definitely paying the price.

For Fultz, I don't like it because in theory, they could give up the number 3 this year and number 2 next year. The point guard market is stupidly saturated as well and they could have traded more minor assets for Bledsoe, or used the Lakers pick and a little extra for Kyrie and taken Tatum/Jackson at 3. (Kyrie criticism is unfair though, that's in hindsight) I get that Fultz is supposed to be great, but I don't know, I think they went too "all in"ish on him.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:04 pm
by HartfordWhalers
Mamba4Goat wrote:
GutUNC wrote:Way too much attention being spent on Okafor in the Sixers offseason review. If he's dead weight, not getting a 2nd rounder for him has essentially zero impact on the future. It would be nice to close the chapter completely, but it's essentially a non-factor for how this team looks going forward considering he's never been any sort of issue in the locker room at all.

How people don't like the Fultz trade is beyond me, but everything's a matter of opinion.


The attention on Okafur is rightfully deserved and speaks volumes of how big of a loss firing Hinkie was. They've held on to him way too long and murdered his value, like Noel. However, I think Jah can still shine in the right circumstance. Philly isn't enabling that though, they brought in Amir and have put Holmes in front of him, had endless rumors, took a big at 25, and gave him DNP's last year. They could've did this soo much better. With how saturated the big man market is now, Philly is definitely paying the price.

For Fultz, I don't like it because in theory, they could give up the number 3 this year and number 2 next year. The point guard market is stupidly saturated as well and they could have traded more minor assets for Bledsoe, or used the Lakers pick and a little extra for Kyrie and taken Tatum/Jackson at 3. (Kyrie criticism is unfair though, that's in hindsight) I get that Fultz is supposed to be great, but I don't know, I think they went too "all in"ish on him.


The guy at #25 is a stash guy and not something that effects Okafor's value.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:18 pm
by TTP
Slava you want to make an over/under signature bet on Sixers wins? I'll take over 32.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:36 pm
by Slava
TTP wrote:Slava you want to make an over/under signature bet on Sixers wins? I'll take over 32.


I added my qualifier there for Embiid playing < 60 games, if you want to allow for that, sure.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:44 pm
by SmartWentCrazy
I gave them a B+.

The Fultz deal was a home run from Philly's vantage point. But I hated their use of cap room. Reddick does nothing long term and I feel KCP would've been a better (and cheaper) target. He's a worse player, but, with his age, he's a much better fit and could grow with the core. Hell, taking on Crabbe for an asset would've been better too, IMO, with his age and roster fit.

Paying 11M for a third string big seems excessive as well.

Edit- loved the trade of OKC20 for 25 as well. That OKC pick felt like a fake first, so they did well to exchange it for a real one.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:48 pm
by BullyKing
SmartWentCrazy wrote:I gave them a B+.

The Fultz deal was a home run from Philly's vantage point. But I hated their use of cap room. Reddick does nothing long term and I feel KCP would've been a better (and cheaper) target. He's a worse player, but, with his age, he's a much better fit and could grow with the core. Hell, taking on Crabbe for an asset would've been better too, IMO, with his age and roster fit.

Paying 11M for a third string big seems excessive as well.


Consider though whether using up their remaining cap space on KCP or Crabbe (shudder) is better than having Redick for a year while maintaining the cap space to hopefully lure a long piece better than any of the three next year.

Totally agree on Amir.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:59 pm
by HartfordWhalers
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Edit- loved the trade of OKC20 for 25 as well. That OKC pick felt like a fake first, so they did well to exchange it for a real one.


Portrayed that way I would too, but when it is OKC20 (and a 2nd) for Pasecniks do you still like it?

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:08 pm
by BullyKing
HartfordWhalers wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Edit- loved the trade of OKC20 for 25 as well. That OKC pick felt like a fake first, so they did well to exchange it for a real one.


Portrayed that way I would too, but when it is OKC20 (and some TBD amount of cash) for Pasecniks do you still like it?


Fixed that for you.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:09 pm
by BlazersBroncos
Consider though whether using up their remaining cap space on KCP or Crabbe (shudder) is better than having Redick for a year while maintaining the cap space to hopefully lure a long piece better than any of the three next year.

Totally agree on Amir.


Exactly. When it comes to one year contracts, I have a VERY hard time ever really considering someone overpaid. Unless of course there were better options available for one year deals. JJ is an elite fit, especially on that deal.

Amir on even a 2 year, 22M deal would be a poor contract. But on a one year deal? That's a nice little overpay for an excellent hustle big that can play PF and C. And when Joel is your starter, you need both an elite backup and elite 3rd string guy. You just cant count on him yet, and you have to approach that position totally differently, with an assumption that he misses 20-30 games.

Jalil should be on the bench and the rotation should be as such:

PG - Markelle Fultz (30mpg) / TJ McConnell (12mpg) / Ben Simmons (6mpg)
SG - JJ Reddick (28mpg) / TLC (20mpg)
SF - Robert Covington (32mpg) / Ben Simmons (6mpg) / Dario Saric (10mpg)
PF - Ben Simmons (20mpg) / Dario Saric (20mpg)
C - Joel Embiid (26mpg) / Richaun Holmes (22mpg)

BUT when Embiid inevitably goes down you simply give Holmes 26mpg, Amir 22mpg and you STILL have an average center rotation relative to the rest of the league. To have an average rotation after losing a star at a position is pretty unique.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:16 pm
by SmartWentCrazy
HartfordWhalers wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Edit- loved the trade of OKC20 for 25 as well. That OKC pick felt like a fake first, so they did well to exchange it for a real one.


Portrayed that way I would too, but when it is OKC20 (and a 2nd) for Pasecniks do you still like it?


I think it's very likely that OKC implodes this offseason and will not be conveying a top 20 protected pick in 2020, so yes.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:21 pm
by HartfordWhalers
BlazersBroncos wrote:Jalil should be on the bench and the rotation should be as such:

PG - Markelle Fultz (30mpg) / TJ McConnell (12mpg) / Ben Simmons (6mpg)
SG - JJ Reddick (28mpg) / TLC (20mpg)
SF - Robert Covington (32mpg) / Ben Simmons (6mpg) / Dario Saric (10mpg)
PF - Ben Simmons (20mpg) / Dario Saric (20mpg)
C - Joel Embiid (26mpg) / Richaun Holmes (22mpg)

BUT when Embiid inevitably goes down you simply give Holmes 26mpg, Amir 22mpg and you STILL have an average center rotation relative to the rest of the league. To have an average rotation after losing a star at a position is pretty unique.


That lineup has Bayless, Stauskas, and James Anderson playing zero minutes. I like it but thing we are a lot more in line for:
PG - Markelle Fultz (28mpg) / TJ McConnell (12mpg) / Bayless (8mpg)
SG - JJ Reddick (26mpg) / Stauskas (12mpg) / TLC (10mpg)
SF - Robert Covington (32mpg) / Anderson&TLC (12mpg) / Ben Simmons (4mpg)
PF - Ben Simmons (24mpg) / Dario Saric (24mpg)
C - Joel Embiid (28mpg) / Richaun Holmes (20mpg)

With that backup SF line listed as Anderson&TLC (12mpg) because I think it starts off with Anderson getting all 12 minutes and they slowly get eaten by TLC in addition to his sg minutes.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:25 pm
by SmartWentCrazy
BullyKing wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:I gave them a B+.

The Fultz deal was a home run from Philly's vantage point. But I hated their use of cap room. Reddick does nothing long term and I feel KCP would've been a better (and cheaper) target. He's a worse player, but, with his age, he's a much better fit and could grow with the core. Hell, taking on Crabbe for an asset would've been better too, IMO, with his age and roster fit.

Paying 11M for a third string big seems excessive as well.


Consider though whether using up their remaining cap space on KCP or Crabbe (shudder) is better than having Redick for a year while maintaining the cap space to hopefully lure a long piece better than any of the three next year.

Totally agree on Amir.


I believe Philly retains one max spot for next offseason regardless, though I did not do the math out. I personally believe that adding a mid 20's piece to your core is more advantageous when it comes to recruiting than a one year rental who adds nothing long term.

Crabbe and a first (which is basically what Nicholson negated) would've helped out more long term than one year of Reddick. Having early bird rights on KCP, who's also a client of the agent for Simmons, also carries a nice future benefit.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:29 pm
by HartfordWhalers
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:I gave them a B+.

The Fultz deal was a home run from Philly's vantage point. But I hated their use of cap room. Reddick does nothing long term and I feel KCP would've been a better (and cheaper) target. He's a worse player, but, with his age, he's a much better fit and could grow with the core. Hell, taking on Crabbe for an asset would've been better too, IMO, with his age and roster fit.

Paying 11M for a third string big seems excessive as well.


Consider though whether using up their remaining cap space on KCP or Crabbe (shudder) is better than having Redick for a year while maintaining the cap space to hopefully lure a long piece better than any of the three next year.

Totally agree on Amir.


I believe Philly retains one max spot for next offseason regardless, though I did not do the math out. I personally believe that adding a mid 20's piece to your core is more advantageous when it comes to recruiting than a one year rental who adds nothing long term.

Crabbe and a first (which is basically what Nicholson negated) would've helped out more long term than one year of Reddick. Having early bird rights on KCP, who's also a client of the agent for Simmons, also carries a nice future benefit.


I don't see any advantage to Early Bird rights on KCP for Philly. If Philly wouldn't have cap space, then it would allow them to overpay KCP next season. But they can overpay KCP next season anyway out of cap space. Keeping his early Bird rights would just take up that cap space that a normal FA offer would anyway.

Re: Sixers Early Offseason in Review (HW/Slava/bondom34/Mamba4goat/BullyKing)

Posted: Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:33 pm
by SmartWentCrazy
HartfordWhalers wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
Consider though whether using up their remaining cap space on KCP or Crabbe (shudder) is better than having Redick for a year while maintaining the cap space to hopefully lure a long piece better than any of the three next year.

Totally agree on Amir.


I believe Philly retains one max spot for next offseason regardless, though I did not do the math out. I personally believe that adding a mid 20's piece to your core is more advantageous when it comes to recruiting than a one year rental who adds nothing long term.

Crabbe and a first (which is basically what Nicholson negated) would've helped out more long term than one year of Reddick. Having early bird rights on KCP, who's also a client of the agent for Simmons, also carries a nice future benefit.


I don't see any advantage to Early Bird rights on KCP for Philly. If Philly wouldn't have cap space, then it would allow them to overpay KCP next season. But they can overpay KCP next season anyway out of cap space. Keeping his early Bird rights would just take up that cap space that a normal FA offer would anyway.


You are correct and I was wrong.

Still think a mid 20's guy who could grow with your core is better than a 30+ year old who cannot.