Toronto offseason in review (HW/Slava/bondom34/cl2117)

[Rapcity_11]

This reductive rationale only works if focusing solely on Carroll at the exclusion of Toronto's other losses since last summer....and if Miles' playmaking efficiency wasn't roughly .25 PPP lower than league average...and if team passing efficiency didn't really matter (with or without DeRozan).

CJ Miles: .83 PPP (low for all NBA wings/guards)
Magic: 1.02 PPP (team low)
Cavs: 1.18 PPP (team high)
Patterson: 1.28 PPP (Raptors high)

And why are so concerned about something that makes up such a negligible portion of a shooter’s value. The value of guys like Miles is made up almost entirely by their ability to hit shots, provide space and play defense. Does anybody care that Klay can’t pass? Nope.

Care to address Toronto's off-season without the constant shifting and reducing it down to the singular skill of 1 player? An 8th man no less.

How is playmaking PPP calculated?.....Not to mention that AST% and Ortg have no correlation as it stands.

The chart shows Playmaking PPP and Assist Ratio, not Assist%. Feel free to refresh your opinion accordingly.

Y = efficiency (Assist Points Created / Potential Assists + Bad Pass Turnovers)
X = expresses usage (or basketball DNA, tendencies, etc..)

So playmaking PPP punishes players for having greater potential assists. We can go ahead and throw that stat out. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover….? I mean I get what it’s trying to do in theory (reward higher quality set-ups), but the flaws are too glaring.

I’m not shifting anything. I’m trying to wrap my head around somebody placing so much emphasis on the passing ability of players who fulfill roles with basically zero playmaking opportunities. A point which you haven’t come close to addressing. It was also you who's reduced the discussion about Toronto's offseason into the singular skills of roleplayers. Not me.

My comment about AST% and Ortg wasn't a direct comment on your chart. Feel free to edit your post accordingly.

Where does the bad pass data come from?

[Mystical Apples]

And why are so concerned about something that makes up such a negligible portion of a shooter’s value. The value of guys like Miles is made up almost entirely by their ability to hit shots, provide space and play defense. Does anybody care that Klay can’t pass? Nope.

Care to address Toronto's off-season without the constant shifting and reducing it down to the singular skill of 1 player? An 8th man no less.

How is playmaking PPP calculated?.....Not to mention that AST% and Ortg have no correlation as it stands.

The chart shows Playmaking PPP and Assist Ratio, not Assist%. Feel free to refresh your opinion accordingly.

Y = efficiency (Assist Points Created / Potential Assists + Bad Pass Turnovers)
X = expresses usage (or basketball DNA, tendencies, etc..)

So playmaking PPP punishes players for having greater potential assists. We can go ahead and throw that stat out. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover….? I mean I get what it’s trying to do in theory (reward higher quality set-ups), but the flaws are too glaring. I’m not shifting anything. I’m trying to wrap my head around somebody placing so much emphasis on the passing ability of players who fulfill roles with basically zero playmaking opportunities.

Team playmaking PPP of r^ .65 with OffRtg and r^.47 with NetRtg was stronger than any other play type last season. Which makes sense given what's being measured and it's impact on both offensive and defensive efficiency (live turnovers, dead v live ball D possessions). Drilling it down by position also reveals one of the few universally significant 5-position stats.

That said, unless you're interested in an earnest discussion I see no reason to continue.

[Rapcity_11]

Care to address Toronto's off-season without the constant shifting and reducing it down to the singular skill of 1 player? An 8th man no less.



The chart shows Playmaking PPP and Assist Ratio, not Assist%. Feel free to refresh your opinion accordingly.

Y = efficiency (Assist Points Created / Potential Assists + Bad Pass Turnovers)
X = expresses usage (or basketball DNA, tendencies, etc..)

So playmaking PPP punishes players for having greater potential assists. We can go ahead and throw that stat out. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover….? I mean I get what it’s trying to do in theory (reward higher quality set-ups), but the flaws are too glaring. I’m not shifting anything. I’m trying to wrap my head around somebody placing so much emphasis on the passing ability of players who fulfill roles with basically zero playmaking opportunities.

Team playmaking PPP of r^ .65 with OffRtg and r^.47 with NetRtg was stronger than any other play type last season. Which makes sense given what's being measured and it's impact on both offensive and defensive efficiency (live turnovers, dead v live ball D possessions). Drilling it down by position also reveals one of the few universally significant 5-position stats.

That said, unless you're interested in an earnest discussion I see no reason to continue.

Stats at the team level and individual level are totally different animals.

Again,

1. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover
2. More potential assists hurt playmaking PPP

You need to address those flaws.

[Mystical Apples]

So playmaking PPP punishes players for having greater potential assists. We can go ahead and throw that stat out. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover….? I mean I get what it’s trying to do in theory (reward higher quality set-ups), but the flaws are too glaring. I’m not shifting anything. I’m trying to wrap my head around somebody placing so much emphasis on the passing ability of players who fulfill roles with basically zero playmaking opportunities.

Team playmaking PPP of r^ .65 with OffRtg and r^.47 with NetRtg was stronger than any other play type last season. Which makes sense given what's being measured and it's impact on both offensive and defensive efficiency (live turnovers, dead v live ball D possessions). Drilling it down by position also reveals one of the few universally significant 5-position stats.

That said, unless you're interested in an earnest discussion I see no reason to continue.

Stats at the team level and individual level are totally different animals.

Again,

1. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover
2. More potential assists hurt playmaking PPP

You need to address those flaws.

Not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or truly don't understand. Your 1st sentence is akin to asserting the sky is blue, #1 is a strawman, #2 a denominator, and proclaiming flaw doesn't = flaw.

[Rapcity_11]

Team playmaking PPP of r^ .65 with OffRtg and r^.47 with NetRtg was stronger than any other play type last season. Which makes sense given what's being measured and it's impact on both offensive and defensive efficiency (live turnovers, dead v live ball D possessions). Drilling it down by position also reveals one of the few universally significant 5-position stats.

That said, unless you're interested in an earnest discussion I see no reason to continue.

Stats at the team level and individual level are totally different animals.

Again,

1. An additional potential assist has the same negative impact as a bad pass turnover
2. More potential assists hurt playmaking PPP

You need to address those flaws.

Not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or truly don't understand. Your 1st sentence is akin to asserting the sky is blue, #1 is a strawman, #2 a denominator, and proclaiming flaw doesn't = flaw.

The first sentence is something you don't seem to understand.

I'll just assume your response means you can't address those (glaring) flaws.

[CoachD]

To all the people calling Carroll a key loss and saying he is still a good defender...

Have you actually see him play the last two years?

They didn't dump him JUST because of the contract. If he was performing near expectations they would have kept him. He was awful.

They didn't move Cory just because of money. Per 36 FVV and Delon are as good or better in limited samples. The two of them combined make less than Cory and they both deserve time.

They didnt offer PP a contract because

A) PP is more concerned with the Toronto party scene and nightlife than working on his game

B) that knee is a mess