Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground)

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Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#1 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:06 pm

Pistons out: Drummond, Bradley, Harris, Jackson, Moreland

Pistons in: Ryan Anderson, T. Thompson, Noah, Shumpert, Ntilikina, Rights to Hartenstein, 2018 Knicks 1st, 2020 Knicks 1st, 2021 Cavs 1st, ? Rockets 1st

Why for Pistons? Suck for the three years and get your own high picks and additional 1st round picks. We'll be the dumping ground of bad contracts and in 3 years we'll have lots of young guys and money to spend. Better to do this than be perpetually stuck fighting for a 7 or 8 seed in the East. Young guys like Kennard, Ellenson, Hartenstein, Johnson and Ntilikina should get plenty of minutes.


Knicks out: Anthony, Noah, Ntilikina, 2018 1st, and 2020 1st

Knicks in: Irving, Tobias Harris, Reggie Jackson

Why for Knicks? Harris and Irving will make the Knicks a playoff team and help draw free agents. Having to take Jackson or losing Ntilikina and the picks isn't ideal, but it will be easier to move Lee or Jackson than Noah.

Cavs out: Irving, Thompson, Shumpert and 2021 1st

Cavs in: Bradley, Ariza, Drummond, and Moreland

Why for Cavs? Improves the defense and gives them one more chance at the Warriors and tells LeBron they are trying to build a winning team.

Rockets out: Anderson, Ariza, Rights to Hartenstein, and a future 1st (probably 2020)

Rockets in: Anthony

Why for Rockets? I know they don't want to give up Ariza, but I don't think they get Anthony unless they do. They also get out of Anderson's contract.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#2 » by MotownMadness » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Are those picks unprotected?
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#3 » by MotownMadness » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:10 pm

Actually that's a no cause those picks shouldn't be worth much as everyone gets better especially the Knicks while we are stuck with some ugly contracts for a while.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#4 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:11 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Are those picks unprotected?


I would say yes, but they're likely to be mid to late first round picks. We should definitely be in the upper half of the lottery with our own picks for the next few years and that is a big reason why I say the Pistons should do this and basically tank for a few years and get their young guys more minutes.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#5 » by Laimbeer » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:22 pm

It looks like a perfect path to doing the Hinkie thing to me. I don't think it's a sure thing at all those picks will be low.

I think I'd do it. I mean, what are we really giving up from a player standpoint? Only Drummond has a high ceiling of that group and the hope for him grows dimmer every season. At least the franchise would have some direction and we'd get off the treadmill.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#6 » by MotownMadness » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:26 pm

Laimbeer wrote:It looks like a perfect path to doing the Hinkie thing to me. I don't think it's a sure thing at all those picks will be low.

I think I'd do it. I mean, what are we really giving up from a player standpoint? Only Drummond has a high ceiling of that group and the hope for him grows dimmer every season. At least the franchise would have some direction and we'd get off the treadmill.

Hinkie had top picks to turn things around as these are those Henry Ellenson type picks while taking on two of the worst contracts in the league. I Would rather just add to what we got than go a route like that.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#7 » by Laimbeer » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:40 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:It looks like a perfect path to doing the Hinkie thing to me. I don't think it's a sure thing at all those picks will be low.

I think I'd do it. I mean, what are we really giving up from a player standpoint? Only Drummond has a high ceiling of that group and the hope for him grows dimmer every season. At least the franchise would have some direction and we'd get off the treadmill.

Hinkie had top picks to turn things around as these are those Henry Ellenson type picks while taking on two of the worst contracts in the league. I Would rather just add to what we got than go a route like that.


Yeah, but weren't Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid a result of their own picks? The Pistons would be setting themselves up to "earn" some like that.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#8 » by MotownMadness » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:46 pm

Laimbeer wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:It looks like a perfect path to doing the Hinkie thing to me. I don't think it's a sure thing at all those picks will be low.

I think I'd do it. I mean, what are we really giving up from a player standpoint? Only Drummond has a high ceiling of that group and the hope for him grows dimmer every season. At least the franchise would have some direction and we'd get off the treadmill.

Hinkie had top picks to turn things around as these are those Henry Ellenson type picks while taking on two of the worst contracts in the league. I Would rather just add to what we got than go a route like that.


Yeah, but weren't Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid a result of their own picks? The Pistons would be setting themselves up to "earn" some like that.

True, I wasn't thinking of how bad our own picks would be. I guess it would make sense as a total rebuild but either way we all know the FO is dead set on playoffs and not a rebuild right now with SVG having two years left and a new arena opening this year.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#9 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:19 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: Hinkie had top picks to turn things around as these are those Henry Ellenson type picks while taking on two of the worst contracts in the league. I Would rather just add to what we got than go a route like that.


Yeah, but weren't Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid a result of their own picks? The Pistons would be setting themselves up to "earn" some like that.

True, I wasn't thinking of how bad our own picks would be. I guess it would make sense as a total rebuild but either way we all know the FO is dead set on playoffs and not a rebuild right now with SVG having two years left and a new arena opening this year.


I agree. There is no long term thinking, only short term "make the playoffs". It's just my opinion that being stuck in perpetual mediocrity, in the East no less, is worse than trying something like this. Having a bunch of young guys and soon to be high picks gives fans something more to be excited about than fighting for a 7th or 8th seed year in and year out, and even being unsuccessful at that more often than not.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#10 » by Caramel_Anton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:32 pm

If I'm the Knicks - I think really long and hard about this because in theory the value is right. Irving & Harris are both natives that want to play for the Knicks - so that's a plus.

Let's just take a look though at our perimeter/wing defense...
Tim Hardaway Jr, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, Reggie Jackson
Image

We'd amount to nothing with this team ultimately because it basically adds 3 poor defenders and trades away a potentially elite defender. Yes, we'd have fire power but that is not a team I see meshing well.

I can't move Noah's salary for Jackson's... He is just trash & one of the leagues worst defenders. Why don't you keep Jackson, and we keep Noah - and we keep one of our picks? Preferably 2018. I'd be okay with that.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#11 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:33 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:If I'm the Knicks - I think really long and hard about this because in theory the value is right. Irving & Harris are both natives that want to play for the Knicks - so that's a plus.

Let's just take a look though at our perimeter/wing defense...
Tim Hardaway Jr, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, Reggie Jackson
Image

We'd amount to nothing with this team ultimately because it basically adds 3 poor defenders and trades away a potentially elite defender. Yes, we'd have fire power but that is not a team I see meshing well.

I can't move Noah's salary for Jackson's... He is just trash & one of the leagues worst defenders. Why don't you keep Jackson, and we keep Noah - and we keep one of our picks? Preferably 2018. I'd be okay with that.


How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#12 » by Caramel_Anton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:44 pm

Jingles2 wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:If I'm the Knicks - I think really long and hard about this because in theory the value is right. Irving & Harris are both natives that want to play for the Knicks - so that's a plus.

Let's just take a look though at our perimeter/wing defense...
Tim Hardaway Jr, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, Reggie Jackson
Image

We'd amount to nothing with this team ultimately because it basically adds 3 poor defenders and trades away a potentially elite defender. Yes, we'd have fire power but that is not a team I see meshing well.

I can't move Noah's salary for Jackson's... He is just trash & one of the leagues worst defenders. Why don't you keep Jackson, and we keep Noah - and we keep one of our picks? Preferably 2018. I'd be okay with that.


How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.


If it was a hungry, motivated Tristan Thompson then it's a steal. Fact is, he seems very low on the work ethic side of things.
Plus he is with a Kardashian, so you know how that always ends for NBA players. I like the fit better though, and you definitely have a better chance getting a yes out of me with this deal than the Jackson deal.. Just wish he wasn't with that Kardashian.

Irving / Sessions / Baker
Hardaway / Lee / Dotson
Harris / Beasley
Porzingis / KOQ
Thompson / WHG

It's an interesting team...
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#13 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
Jingles2 wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:If I'm the Knicks - I think really long and hard about this because in theory the value is right. Irving & Harris are both natives that want to play for the Knicks - so that's a plus.

Let's just take a look though at our perimeter/wing defense...
Tim Hardaway Jr, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, Reggie Jackson
Image

We'd amount to nothing with this team ultimately because it basically adds 3 poor defenders and trades away a potentially elite defender. Yes, we'd have fire power but that is not a team I see meshing well.

I can't move Noah's salary for Jackson's... He is just trash & one of the leagues worst defenders. Why don't you keep Jackson, and we keep Noah - and we keep one of our picks? Preferably 2018. I'd be okay with that.


How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.


If it was a hungry, motivated Tristan Thompson then it's a steal. Fact is, he seems very low on the work ethic side of things.
Plus he is with a Kardashian, so you know how that always ends for NBA players. I like the fit better though, and you definitely have a better chance getting a yes out of me with this deal than the Jackson deal.. Just wish he wasn't with that Kardashian.

Irving / Sessions / Baker
Hardaway / Lee / Dotson
Harris / Beasley
Porzingis / KOQ
Thompson / WHG

It's an interesting team...


Done deal. I'll talk with SVG and you get with whoever is running the show over there now. I think yoi should have Baker over Sessions though. I expect his shooting will improve next year if he gets regular backup point guard minutes and he's a better defender.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#14 » by Caramel_Anton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Jingles2 wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
Jingles2 wrote:
How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.


If it was a hungry, motivated Tristan Thompson then it's a steal. Fact is, he seems very low on the work ethic side of things.
Plus he is with a Kardashian, so you know how that always ends for NBA players. I like the fit better though, and you definitely have a better chance getting a yes out of me with this deal than the Jackson deal.. Just wish he wasn't with that Kardashian.

Irving / Sessions / Baker
Hardaway / Lee / Dotson
Harris / Beasley
Porzingis / KOQ
Thompson / WHG

It's an interesting team...


Done deal. I'll talk with SVG and you get with whoever is running the show over there now. I think yoi should have Baker over Sessions though. I expect his shooting will improve next year if he gets regular backup point guard minutes and he's a better defender.


We would - it IS a youth movement after all. Just giving the veteran some respect. Baker is also a true SG so he'd play a lot of backup at both the 1 and 2.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#15 » by MotownMadness » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
Jingles2 wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:If I'm the Knicks - I think really long and hard about this because in theory the value is right. Irving & Harris are both natives that want to play for the Knicks - so that's a plus.

Let's just take a look though at our perimeter/wing defense...
Tim Hardaway Jr, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, Reggie Jackson
Image

We'd amount to nothing with this team ultimately because it basically adds 3 poor defenders and trades away a potentially elite defender. Yes, we'd have fire power but that is not a team I see meshing well.

I can't move Noah's salary for Jackson's... He is just trash & one of the leagues worst defenders. Why don't you keep Jackson, and we keep Noah - and we keep one of our picks? Preferably 2018. I'd be okay with that.


How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.


If it was a hungry, motivated Tristan Thompson then it's a steal. Fact is, he seems very low on the work ethic side of things.
Plus he is with a Kardashian, so you know how that always ends for NBA players. I like the fit better though, and you definitely have a better chance getting a yes out of me with this deal than the Jackson deal.. Just wish he wasn't with that Kardashian.

Irving / Sessions / Baker
Hardaway / Lee / Dotson
Harris / Beasley
Porzingis / KOQ
Thompson / WHG

It's an interesting team...

That's actually a pretty decent lineup
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#16 » by He Filled it Up » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:15 pm

Laimbeer wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:It looks like a perfect path to doing the Hinkie thing to me. I don't think it's a sure thing at all those picks will be low.

I think I'd do it. I mean, what are we really giving up from a player standpoint? Only Drummond has a high ceiling of that group and the hope for him grows dimmer every season. At least the franchise would have some direction and we'd get off the treadmill.

Hinkie had top picks to turn things around as these are those Henry Ellenson type picks while taking on two of the worst contracts in the league. I Would rather just add to what we got than go a route like that.


Yeah, but weren't Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid a result of their own picks? The Pistons would be setting themselves up to "earn" some like that.

They were able to move up for Fultz by cashing in on draft assets from other teams.
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#17 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:22 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
Jingles2 wrote:
How about we keep Jackson and take Noah and instead of Jackson you get Tristan Thompson, but we still get both picks.


If it was a hungry, motivated Tristan Thompson then it's a steal. Fact is, he seems very low on the work ethic side of things.
Plus he is with a Kardashian, so you know how that always ends for NBA players. I like the fit better though, and you definitely have a better chance getting a yes out of me with this deal than the Jackson deal.. Just wish he wasn't with that Kardashian.

Irving / Sessions / Baker
Hardaway / Lee / Dotson
Harris / Beasley
Porzingis / KOQ
Thompson / WHG

It's an interesting team...

That's actually a pretty decent lineup


Pistons lineup on the other hand would be pretty bad. I can't think of anyone who would be worse on paper and that should mean a high pick.

Jackson, Smith, Ntilikina
Galloway, Kennard, Shumpert
Bullock, Johnson, Tolliver
Anderson, Leuer, Hartenstein
Marjonivic, Ellenson, Noah
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#18 » by Caramel_Anton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:30 pm

Win - Win
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#19 » by bgrep14 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:16 pm

No from Cleveland if they have to give up that 1st probably still a no without it
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Re: Pistons-Rockets-Knicks-Cavs (Piston dumping ground) 

Post#20 » by Jingles2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:59 pm

bgrep14 wrote:No from Cleveland if they have to give up that 1st probably still a no without it


Yeah, I think Cleveland isn't going to get as much as they think they are for Irving. He's a great scorer who plays almost no defense and has a list of teams. We shall see, but I don't think they'll get a Porzingis or Josh Jackson or anyone like that.

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