PHX-DEN

[csuriano]

First off, let me state that I hope Bledsoe remains in PHX for the remainder of his contract. Having said that, Bledsoe remains the best trade chip in PHX. If he is not involved in a Kyrie trade, then maximizing his value by trading him before he suffers another injury may be prudent. Few teams could use an upgrade at the point, but DEN signed Millsap and should be looking for the playoffs.

PHX in: Mudiay, Harris, Faried
PHX out: Bledsoe

DEN in: Bledsoe
DEN out: Mudiay, Harris, Faried

Mudiay has been underwhelming but still has potential to become a Bledsoe-type player. Harris is a promising project who can hopefully replace Knight as a third guard, but will be looking to be paid after this season. The DEN GM said he would like to extend Harris, but an upgrade at the point may be worth trading him. PHX also eats Faried's contract.
DEN gets an above average point to complement Millsap and Jokic for a playoff run. Is this value fair? I considered replacing Harris with Murray. Would that be too much in favor of PHX? What about Lyles value? I feel the original trade is close, but if the value is off, what is a fair return for both sides?

[MoneyTalks41890]

I don't see why Denver would trade Harris and he doesn't make a lot of sense on the Suns with Booker there.

Arthur, Mudiay, 1st or Barton for Bledsoe

[loserX]

Yeah, it's an old trade board adage that "trades work best when the other team values your guy more than you do", which I don't think is the case at all for Harris. Denver would like to keep him, and Phoenix already has a potential star at his position.

Maybe consider Denver throwing in Beasley instead of Harris, and then you shop him around for someone else's pick? I think New Orleans is a good spot to start.

[MidMountain]

I think the best Denver would do is:
Mudiay, Faried, and Beasley (or a 2018 1st)
or Mudiay, Arthur, Barton.
Adding Harris makes this a non-starter. He is an excellent complement to Jokic and not a piece they are interested in moving.

[lakerhater]

Denver isn't trading Harris for the oft injured, unreliable Bledsoe.

[lakerhater]

I think the best Denver would do is:
Mudiay, Faried, and Beasley (or a 2018 1st)
or Mudiay, Arthur, Barton.
Adding Harris makes this a non-starter. He is an excellent complement to Jokic and not a piece they are interested in moving.

Lots of people seem to underestimate how well Jokic and Harris complement each other. Denver would have to be blown away with an offer to deal Harris.

[csuriano]

I think the best Denver would do is:
Mudiay, Faried, and Beasley (or a 2018 1st)
or Mudiay, Arthur, Barton.
Adding Harris makes this a non-starter. He is an excellent complement to Jokic and not a piece they are interested in moving.

Lots of people seem to underestimate how well Jokic and Harris complement each other. Denver would have to be blown away with an offer to deal Harris.

Thanks for the feedback. So I'm guessing Harris is off the table here. The way I'm thinking about this (and I might be wrong):
Mudiay-underwhelming prospect so far but worth taking a flyer on based on potential.
Faried-decent player but contract carries a slightly negative value.
Beasley-young sg prospect worth developing to become a rotation player.

I think there is definitely a trade here between DEN and PHX, but are these three worth Bledsoe?

What if DEN added Arthur and PHX added Knight? PHX basically removes a year from the Knight contract by replacing him with Arthur. DEN dumps Faried and Arthur (20 mill/year for 2 years) to take Knight (13 mill/year for 3 years) and gets Bledsoe. PHX cuts Arthur or Faried.

PHX in: Mudiay, Beasley, Faried, Arthur
DEN in: Bledsoe, Knight

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[NashtyNas]

I think the best Denver would do is:
Mudiay, Faried, and Beasley (or a 2018 1st)
or Mudiay, Arthur, Barton.
Adding Harris makes this a non-starter. He is an excellent complement to Jokic and not a piece they are interested in moving.

Probably, which is why Bledsoe is still a Phoenix Sun.
If that's "the best" Denver would do, "the best" we can offer in return would probably be Brandon Knight.

No way you get Bledsoe for that poo-poo platter.

[youngthegiant]

Harris has more value than Bledsoe.

[nomansland]

I think the best Denver would do is:
Mudiay, Faried, and Beasley (or a 2018 1st)
or Mudiay, Arthur, Barton.
Adding Harris makes this a non-starter. He is an excellent complement to Jokic and not a piece they are interested in moving.

Lots of people seem to underestimate how well Jokic and Harris complement each other. Denver would have to be blown away with an offer to deal Harris.

Thanks for the feedback. So I'm guessing Harris is off the table here. The way I'm thinking about this (and I might be wrong):
Mudiay-underwhelming prospect so far but worth taking a flyer on based on potential.
Faried-decent player but contract carries a slightly negative value.
Beasley-young sg prospect worth developing to become a rotation player.

I think there is definitely a trade here between DEN and PHX, but are these three worth Bledsoe?

What if DEN added Arthur and PHX added Knight? PHX basically removes a year from the Knight contract by replacing him with Arthur. DEN dumps Faried and Arthur (20 mill/year for 2 years) to take Knight (13 mill/year for 3 years) and gets Bledsoe. PHX cuts Arthur or Faried.

PHX in: Mudiay, Beasley, Faried, Arthur
DEN in: Bledsoe, Knight

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I'd think you want Barton since his deal expires next year. And if Faried is negative value I'd love to keep him. He's still a good player. We don't want or need Knight.

So how about Barton, Mudiay, Arthur and Lydon for Bledsoe?

[NashtyNas]

I'd think you want Barton since his deal expires next year. And if Faried is negative value I'd love to keep him. He's still a good player. We don't want or need Knight.

So how about Barton, Mudiay, Arthur and Lydon for Bledsoe?

And we don't want or need any of those players because outside of Barton, they're not very good or are complete unknowns.
Barton doesn't fit here because our wings are filled with guys we like and want to develop in Booker, Jackson and Warren... so he's essentially a 1 year bench player that gives us no long term value.

Any deal between DEN and PHX for Bledsoe needs either Murray or Harris or it's not happening, and I suspect that's why Bledsoe is still going to wear a Suns uniform and not a Nuggets one this coming season.

[nomansland]

I'd think you want Barton since his deal expires next year. And if Faried is negative value I'd love to keep him. He's still a good player. We don't want or need Knight.

So how about Barton, Mudiay, Arthur and Lydon for Bledsoe?

And we don't want or need any of those players because outside of Barton, they're not very good or are complete unknowns.
Barton doesn't fit here because our wings are filled with guys we like and want to develop in Booker, Jackson and Warren... so he's essentially a 1 year bench player that gives us no long term value.

Any deal between DEN and PHX for Bledsoe needs either Murray or Harris or it's not happening, and I suspect that's why Bledsoe is still going to wear a Suns uniform and not a Nuggets one this coming season.

Yep. If Murray especially is off the table for Butler and Irving, no way he's on the table in a Bledsoe trade. If a trade happens, it'll be unbalanced because I'm having a hard time seeing a deal that makes both sides happy.

[Jaw]

These teams were in negotiations prior to the draft about a deal that would send Bledsoe to the Nuggets but couldn't work things out. I think Bledsoe would be a great fit with Nuggets, a team that needs defense and an upgrade at point guard position (Jameer Nelson isn't going to cut it at this stage of his career).

Not sure exactly what Suns would want but Jokic is off the table and although they'd probably want Murray I think he's off the table too. As mentioned Harris doesn't make a ton of sense to add so I think best offer Nuggets could give would be something like Murray, a 1st and Barton/ Beasley. If I'm the Suns that would probably be enough for me with Mudiay (young with good size and athleticism just needs to improve shot and decision making), a 1st (I'd request it to be only top 10 protected in case Nuggets miss playoffs in a deep west) and Barton (or Beasley) who probably doesn't hold that much value to suns so I'd try to involve a 3rd team to give a late 1st for him. Nuggets don't really have any big expiring contracts (Nelson at 4.7 mill is best) or cap space to absorb a deal like Dudleys but maybe they'd be willing to swap Arthur to give Suns a little salary relief.

Suns fans what would be a fair return for Bledsoe (in general not necessarily from Nuggets)? I assume you'd want a young replacement point guard and draft picks since aren't any major holes (except maybe a young center with Len not resigned yet and not anything special) which this offers but if this were enough I think the trade would've happened already. I'd like to see Bledsoe with the Nuggets so is there a 3rd team that could be involved to make things work?

[NashtyNas]

These teams were in negotiations prior to the draft about a deal that would send Bledsoe to the Nuggets but couldn't work things out. I think Bledsoe would be a great fit with Nuggets, a team that needs defense and an upgrade at point guard position (Jameer Nelson isn't going to cut it at this stage of his career).

Not sure exactly what Suns would want but Jokic is off the table and although they'd probably want Murray I think he's off the table too. As mentioned Harris doesn't make a ton of sense to add so I think best offer Nuggets could give would be something like Murray, a 1st and Barton/ Beasley. If I'm the Suns that would probably be enough for me with Mudiay (young with good size and athleticism just needs to improve shot and decision making), a 1st (I'd request it to be only top 10 protected in case Nuggets miss playoffs in a deep west) and Barton (or Beasley) who probably doesn't hold that much value to suns so I'd try to involve a 3rd team to give a late 1st for him. Nuggets don't really have any big expiring contracts (Nelson at 4.7 mill is best) or cap space to absorb a deal like Dudleys but maybe they'd be willing to swap Arthur to give Suns a little salary relief.

Suns fans what would be a fair return for Bledsoe (in general not necessarily from Nuggets)? I assume you'd want a young replacement point guard and draft picks since aren't any major holes (except maybe a young center with Len not resigned yet and not anything special) which this offers but if this were enough I think the trade would've happened already. I'd like to see Bledsoe with the Nuggets so is there a 3rd team that could be involved to make things work?

It's been discussed ad nauseam - the Suns want Murray or a 1st on top of Mudiay/Arthur without having to take on Faried.
Everything the Nuggets actually want to trade has no value to us... or almost any other team (save Barton/Faried - though they're at best neutral value given their contract situations respectively... so surprise surprise, that's why Bledsoe is still a Sun.

[Jaw]

These teams were in negotiations prior to the draft about a deal that would send Bledsoe to the Nuggets but couldn't work things out. I think Bledsoe would be a great fit with Nuggets, a team that needs defense and an upgrade at point guard position (Jameer Nelson isn't going to cut it at this stage of his career).

Not sure exactly what Suns would want but Jokic is off the table and although they'd probably want Murray I think he's off the table too. As mentioned Harris doesn't make a ton of sense to add so I think best offer Nuggets could give would be something like Mudiay, a 1st and Barton/ Beasley. If I'm the Suns that would probably be enough for me with Mudiay (young with good size and athleticism just needs to improve shot and decision making), a 1st (I'd request it to be only top 10 protected in case Nuggets miss playoffs in a deep west) and Barton (or Beasley) who probably doesn't hold that much value to suns so I'd try to involve a 3rd team to give a late 1st for him. Nuggets don't really have any big expiring contracts (Nelson at 4.7 mill is best) or cap space to absorb a deal like Dudleys but maybe they'd be willing to swap Arthur to give Suns a little salary relief.

Suns fans what would be a fair return for Bledsoe (in general not necessarily from Nuggets)? I assume you'd want a young replacement point guard and draft picks since aren't any major holes (except maybe a young center with Len not resigned yet and not anything special) which this offers but if this were enough I think the trade would've happened already. I'd like to see Bledsoe with the Nuggets so is there a 3rd team that could be involved to make things work?

It's been discussed ad nauseam - the Suns want Murray or a 1st on top of Mudiay/Arthur without having to take on Faried.
Everything the Nuggets actually want to trade has no value to us... or almost any other team (save Barton/Faried - though they're at best neutral value given their contract situations respectively... so surprise surprise, that's why Bledsoe is still a Sun.

I understand Suns wanting more but who is going to give them a significantly better offer?. Based off their young roster and Bledsoe's age, injury history and contract situation there I think now would be the ideal time to cash in on Bledsoe. He isn't likely to improve his stock this season and runs the risk of getting injured again, tanking his value. Even if he makes it through this season he is then going to be an expiring contract which negatively affects his trade value especially if Suns seek young assets. I'm not sure what good keeping Bledsoe does for them so wouldn't they be wise to take the best offer they can get now (whether that is the Nuggets or not)?

And I thought Mudiay and a 1st was what was offered prior to the draft and Suns declined. Arthur would have to be added for salary now but if I were Nuggets I'd definitely do that for Bledsoe.

[MoneyTalks41890]

There's absolutely a deal to be worked out between these two teams, and there's zero chance it involves Murray or Harris, and it shouldn't involve Faried either.

Mudiay
Barton
Beasley
Arthur
1st

These are the assets that should be on the table. Arthur probably needs to be included for matching reasons, but the rest is choose your own adventure. Some combo.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Here's a deal I like:

DEN out: Arthur, Mudiay, Barton, 2018 1st top 10 prot.
DEN in: Bledsoe, Elijah Millsap

OKC out: Singler, Ferguson, 2018 CHI 2nd
OKC in: Arthur, Barton

PHX out: Bledsoe, Elijah Millsap
PHX in: Mudiay, Ferguson, Singler, 2018 DEN 1st, 2018 CHI 2nd

[csuriano]

Here's a deal I like:

DEN out: Arthur, Mudiay, Barton, 2018 1st top 10 prot.
DEN in: Bledsoe, Elijah Millsap

OKC out: Singler, Ferguson, 2018 CHI 2nd
OKC in: Arthur, Barton

PHX out: Bledsoe, Elijah Millsap
PHX in: Mudiay, Ferguson, Singler, 2018 DEN 1st, 2018 CHI 2nd

If we were to get crazy and include a third team I've come up with:

PHX in: Mudiay, Exum and Barton
PHX out: Bledsoe
PHX gets a potential Bledsoe replacement in Mudiay, takes a flyer on a combo guard replacement for Knight, and gets a backup wing in Barton who we can shop in February if we don't want to resign him. This also helps PHX get a top pick in 2018.

DEN in: Bledsoe, Burks
DEN out: Mudiay, Barton, Faried
DEN gets Bledsoe for Mudiay and Barton. Instead of sending PHX a 1rst round pick (as is the most common deal), they swap Faried's contract for Burks due to a PF glut and the need to replace a guard.

UTA in: Faried
UTA out: Exum, Burks
UTA gets a solid player in Faried to start (replacing Jerebko) because their PF position isn't very deep and dumps Burks contract. A Gobert, Favors, Faried frontcourt is pretty solid.
Maybe throw some picks around.

.....OR
This is close and gives PHX three 1rsts this year, but I still think PHX hesitates a bit. If February rolls around and there has been nothing done with Kyrie and no great deals out there, I think PHX considers it.
PHX in: Mudiay, Barton, Arthur, 2018 top 8 prot. DEN
DEN in: Bledsoe

[NashtyNas]

I understand Suns wanting more but who is going to give them a significantly better offer?. Based off their young roster and Bledsoe's age, injury history and contract situation there I think now would be the ideal time to cash in on Bledsoe. He isn't likely to improve his stock this season and runs the risk of getting injured again, tanking his value. Even if he makes it through this season he is then going to be an expiring contract which negatively affects his trade value especially if Suns seek young assets. I'm not sure what good keeping Bledsoe does for them so wouldn't they be wise to take the best offer they can get now (whether that is the Nuggets or not)?

And I thought Mudiay and a 1st was what was offered prior to the draft and Suns declined. Arthur would have to be added for salary now but if I were Nuggets I'd definitely do that for Bledsoe.

I think we differ on what "cashing in" actually means because Mudiay along with Arthur or Faried is not "cashing in" from our perspective.

You're correct that the offer prior to the draft was Mudiay, 2017 1st and either Faried or Arthur. We don't know who backed out or why but judging from the move the Nuggets made, I'm assuming they weren't willing to make the move without dumping Faried so both sides moved on. I don't know this for sure so don't take my word for it... nothing's been reported about the details of the discussions or why they fell apart AFAIK.

[BadWolf]

You could probably swap a pick for Harris and maybe add Beasley if needed and make everyone happy.
Mudiay, Bradley, pick 19 for Bledsoe.