Do you know who should pursue Kyrie? The BUCKS!

[MoneyTalks41890]

Can Bucks fans help explain the rationale of not wanting to give up Middleton for Kyrie? As an outsider I do not understand it at all. Looks like Middleton and Kyrie have the same amount of years left on their deal (assuming Middleton will opt out). I'm honestly confused.

It really doesn't make sense from an outsider's perspective. Middleton is good, yes, but he's not a star. Kyrie is a star. And a Kyrie/Giannis core is killer. They fit very well together.

And in general, I think the "this guys a star, this guys not" is the dumbest rationale you can use in any trade. By and by, if you talk to a casual NBA fan off this board, they have no idea what they're talking about. They also happen to be the ones who decide who's a star and who's not. Those same people couldn't name a guy like Rudy Gobert even though he single handedly makes most teams in this league elite on the defensive end over night.

Well we're talking on here and I think the more educated group on here would agree that Kyrie is a star and Midds is not. Is Middleton a great complementary player to have? Yes. But trades for stars hurt. They aren't painless.

[Prez]

Kyrie is clearly better than the 2016-17 post-hamstring tear off the bone shell of Middleton. He absolutely is not a discernibly higher impact player than a full strength 2015-16 Middleton.

I would probably do the trade because the concerns over whether Middleton will get back to 100% are legit. But I can totally see why someone would prefer Middleton if they think that he does get back to 100%. This "Kyrie is a star, Middleton isn't" stuff isn't super meaningful as it's not tied to who actually brings more two-way value on court but instead who is the better go-to scorer and marketable/popular player.

[skones]

It really doesn't make sense from an outsider's perspective. Middleton is good, yes, but he's not a star. Kyrie is a star. And a Kyrie/Giannis core is killer. They fit very well together.

And in general, I think the "this guys a star, this guys not" is the dumbest rationale you can use in any trade. By and by, if you talk to a casual NBA fan off this board, they have no idea what they're talking about. They also happen to be the ones who decide who's a star and who's not. Those same people couldn't name a guy like Rudy Gobert even though he single handedly makes most teams in this league elite on the defensive end over night.

Well we're talking on here and I think the more educated group on here would agree that Kyrie is a star and Midds is not. Is Middleton a great complementary player to have? Yes. But trades for stars hurt. They aren't painless.

As I stated. "This guy's a star, this guy's not" is dumb. You have to look at the substance each guy brings to the floor, and I think one guy's perception of "substance" is greatly affected by the fact that he plays with the greatest player of all time.

[Laimbeer]

I'm pretty surprised at these takes. Kyrie has comfortably more value than even a healthy Middleton.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Kyrie is clearly better than the 2016-17 post-hamstring tear off the bone shell of Middleton. He absolutely is not a discernibly higher impact player than a full strength 2015-16 Middleton.

I would probably do the trade because the concerns over whether Middleton will get back to 100% are legit. But I can totally see why someone would prefer Middleton if they think that he does get back to 100%. This "Kyrie is a star, Middleton isn't" stuff isn't super meaningful as it's not tied to who actually brings more two-way value on court but instead who is the better go-to scorer and marketable/popular player.

Kyrie brings more value on the court than Middleton, even when healthy. Is that better?

[old ball coach]

Can Bucks fans help explain the rationale of not wanting to give up Middleton for Kyrie? As an outsider I do not understand it at all. Looks like Middleton and Kyrie have the same amount of years left on their deal (assuming Middleton will opt out). I'm honestly confused.

Its the little things that really add up middleton has a fantastic contract very good teammate very good 2way player fits with freak . now the negatives on irving and i like him but.. Defence is nothing to write home about. Not a true point more of a hybrid then anything will not resign with bucks after his two years you can bet on that.mecontent wasn't happy with king james being the man greek owns Milwaukee how do u think he will like that then there injuries irving has never player a full 82. In fact three seasons he didn't make it to 60 games he is a unique scorer that cant put 25 in the hole any given night but middleton can put 20 and play d and the asking price of Cleveland fans is insane you look at what george and Butler got. Add up all the baggage and we keep midds and

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If you think Middleton signs after his 2 years and Kyrie wouldn't then that is a very fair stance to take. I agree the Butler trade was a head scratcher. Thought they could get more. PG only has 1 year left so not a great comparison.

I agree on paul as a rental but value wise u add irving inj. Historyand his not being happy shouldn't he value be about the same as paul? I just think what Cleveland fans are asking is out of wack it only takes one team to agree with them on his value but fact is if any team offered near that he would be traded already

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[Prez]

Kyrie is clearly better than the 2016-17 post-hamstring tear off the bone shell of Middleton. He absolutely is not a discernibly higher impact player than a full strength 2015-16 Middleton.

I would probably do the trade because the concerns over whether Middleton will get back to 100% are legit. But I can totally see why someone would prefer Middleton if they think that he does get back to 100%. This "Kyrie is a star, Middleton isn't" stuff isn't super meaningful as it's not tied to who actually brings more two-way value on court but instead who is the better go-to scorer and marketable/popular player.

Kyrie brings more value on the court than Middleton, even when healthy. Is that better?

That's a perfectly fine opinion to hold. As is the other side of that.

[old ball coach]

I'm pretty surprised at these takes. Kyrie has comfortably more value than even a healthy Middleton.

Were talking value not who's the better basketball player you add all the little things up and it brings his value down also it's not that they want just middleton they want parker and brogdon maybe a 1st thon maker been brought up even seen ones will all of them in it plus take shumperts contract. Just not happening.

Can Bucks fans help explain the rationale of not wanting to give up Middleton for Kyrie? As an outsider I do not understand it at all. Looks like Middleton and Kyrie have the same amount of years left on their deal (assuming Middleton will opt out). I'm honestly confused.

It really doesn't make sense from an outsider's perspective. Middleton is good, yes, but he's not a star. Kyrie is a star. And a Kyrie/Giannis core is killer. They fit very well together.

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[Fotis St]

So, it seems the consensus from Buck fans is they would rather have a pretty good all around player who is NOT an all star, nor done anything like hit a clutch shot to win in the Finals, than a young dynamic all star pg who has proven his worth deep into the playoffs (Lebron wasn't making those shots for him by the way). Think how much better Giannis will be with Kyrie taking away the Defenses attention.....makes no sense to me either. Same view Piston fans seem to have with Tobias Harris, also a pretty good all around player. News flash...you win in the NBA with stars not pretty good all around players.

Absolutely.
Agree 100%.

Now expect most Bucks' fans respond explaining how Kyrie is not a true star.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think Parker, Brogdon and Delly for Irving and Frye is fair.

Slight overpay if anything for MIL but they get an expiring for Delly which pushes the deal into their favor IMHO.

[jute2003]

I'd like to see the bucks with Middleton and Kyrie with Giannis. I don't think the Cavs would accept any offer that didn't include Middleton.

If it were just KM and 2018 1st I could accept it. If it really takes KM, 1st, Brogdon, Thon, and expiring or more like Cavs fans think...well that would just be stupid. Irving doesn't effect the game enough to gut your team for.

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[Pacers_Freak]

Its the little things that really add up middleton has a fantastic contract very good teammate very good 2way player fits with freak . now the negatives on irving and i like him but.. Defence is nothing to write home about. Not a true point more of a hybrid then anything will not resign with bucks after his two years you can bet on that.mecontent wasn't happy with king james being the man greek owns Milwaukee how do u think he will like that then there injuries irving has never player a full 82. In fact three seasons he didn't make it to 60 games he is a unique scorer that cant put 25 in the hole any given night but middleton can put 20 and play d and the asking price of Cleveland fans is insane you look at what george and Butler got. Add up all the baggage and we keep midds and

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If you think Middleton signs after his 2 years and Kyrie wouldn't then that is a very fair stance to take. I agree the Butler trade was a head scratcher. Thought they could get more. PG only has 1 year left so not a great comparison.

I agree on paul as a rental but value wise u add irving inj. Historyand his not being happy shouldn't he value be about the same as paul? I just think what Cleveland fans are asking is out of wack it only takes one team to agree with them on his value but fact is if any team offered near that he would be traded already

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Doesn't Middleton's injury history even that out?

[Laimbeer]

So, it seems the consensus from Buck fans is they would rather have a pretty good all around player who is NOT an all star, nor done anything like hit a clutch shot to win in the Finals, than a young dynamic all star pg who has proven his worth deep into the playoffs (Lebron wasn't making those shots for him by the way). Think how much better Giannis will be with Kyrie taking away the Defenses attention.....makes no sense to me either. Same view Piston fans seem to have with Tobias Harris, also a pretty good all around player. News flash...you win in the NBA with stars not pretty good all around players.

Absolutely.
Agree 100%.

Now expect most Bucks' fans respond explaining how Kyrie is not a true star.

Even though he has a track record in said NBA finals...

[bondom34]

So, it seems the consensus from Buck fans is they would rather have a pretty good all around player who is NOT an all star, nor done anything like hit a clutch shot to win in the Finals, than a young dynamic all star pg who has proven his worth deep into the playoffs (Lebron wasn't making those shots for him by the way). Think how much better Giannis will be with Kyrie taking away the Defenses attention.....makes no sense to me either. Same view Piston fans seem to have with Tobias Harris, also a pretty good all around player. News flash...you win in the NBA with stars not pretty good all around players.

Absolutely.
Agree 100%.

Now expect most Bucks' fans respond explaining how Kyrie is not a true star.

Even though he has a track record in said NBA finals...

Last year was 29/4/4 on OK efficiency with bad defense and about a 1:1 assist to TO ratio.

He's a star until you take away Lebron, then he's not so great.

[old ball coach]

I am also very curious if he so great why Cleveland doesn't tell him to shut play ball and after king james leaves next year your the man.

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[Fotis St]

I am also very curious if he so great why Cleveland doesn't tell him to shut play ball and after king james leaves next year your the man.

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Kyrie is doing what King James did when young.
Kyrie wants to win rings. This is why he doesn't want to stay in Cleveland without Lebron.
Break down the teams he requested and you understand that he wants to win rings...

Knicks have Porzingis
Spurs have Kawhi
Wolves have Butler,Kat

If wanted only to be the man he would have stayed. He doesn't want to be the new Melo. He is being proactive to pair with at least another star in order to win a Championship or at least make it to Conference Finals.

[phraoh]

Honestly, he has NEVER wanted to be in Cleveland, and most fans were shocked when he resigned so quickly. If Giannis told you he wanted to leave Milwaukee, he hated it there, and to trade him, would you keep him and tell him to shut up and play?? Look if they don't get any semblance of a decent offer, they probably will tell him to shut up and play, but you are just going to get less for him in the future.

[Mykhyn]

I agree somewhat with some of these posts..

Ideally the goal would be to pair Irving/Middleton/Giannis. I'd give up everything to pair those 3, Parker, Brogdon, Monroe, Thon, picks if need be.

A lot of the posts in this thread though are baffling to say the least.

[tidho]

Its amazing how little value Kyrie has. I'm starting to wonder what fans of other teams actually want to add. A nearly unstoppable offensive weapon that has proven to be an absolute killer in the playoffs?.... nah, won't even do that for my 3&D wing coming off an injury, lol.

[trwi7]

Even though he has a track record in said NBA finals...

Which he doesn't sniff without playing with LeBron.