Do you know who should pursue Kyrie? The BUCKS!

[skones]

I think Prozingas is a young star (2 years in the league), and more potential stars are Murray, Brown, Tatum, and Jackson with 1 year or no years experience. All of those players are 20 give or take a year...not 24 like Brogdan....big difference when you are looking at possibly rebuilding after this year. And yes, I would rather have a Phoenix trade of Bledsoe, Chriss, and a number 1 than Middleton, Brogdan and a # 1, but its close, and really depends on what you feel about Chriss. Bledsoe is a definite starter for Cavs, and not sure Middleton and Brogdan are....not sure Brogdan is a pg.

You can, quite literally, insert Khris Middleton into any starting lineup except for Golden State and instantly make it better......

[rugbyrugger23]

yeah, so. Irving is getting paid big now. And 25 is old to go with Love and TT? And he is 24 now which is younger than Kyrie! and Maker is only 20 and under complete control for 3 years. Teletovic is 3 years younger than Frye and Delladova had success backing up Irving and he will be ok backing up Rose. I don't think the Cavs could get a better package anywhere.

I didn't say that wasn't a good package -- I didn't wager an opinion on that at all. And no one, me included, said 25 was old with TT and Love. Moot points you interjected.

Cavs would be trading a young player in Irving. Some 9 months older than one of the "young" players you said were needed in a Cavs trade package. My fun fact was to remind all how young Kyrie is. And the type of young they are ideal seeking is more Maker vs. Brogdon.

Your opinion was that if it was the best out there you would roll with a unhappy LBJ and Kyrie for the year. That is turning down the trade and not considering it a good offer.

Then why bring up Brogdon's age like it was a big deal that he is only 1 year/season younger than Irving.
You said that Brogdon's would not fit the post LBJ cav rebuilding, I pointed out that his age fits fine.

Actually no that wasn't my opinion at all, you must be confusing me with someone else.

The reason for Bringing up Brogdon's age is to show how young Irving is (same age as one of the "young" players you mentioned Cavs would want (so essentially Cavs trading out a young player for a 24/25 player in). Brogdon shouldn't be falsely advertised as a youth in part of Bucks trade Package.

And (most importantly), as another poster mentioned above, Brogdon isn't ideal for a team tear down rebuild around youth. If it take 2-3 years to compete again, he will be 27-28yo and most likely 5-8 years older than the 20yo the Cavs draft moving forward.

[Magic Giannison]

What the heck im reading in this thread, its embarrassing.

How can people ignore the simple thing that applies to every NBA team, each player got different value for different teams.

It doesnt matter if Kyrie is better player than Middleton or vice verse, the fact is, Middleton is more valuable to us because of shooting he also brings defense which is essential to us.
If you take Middleton out and replace with Kyrie you create a bigger defensive gap while adding a better scorer that replies heavy on iso and is a volume scorer.

Seriously people, before you throw up analysis on team and start devaluing players when you got no clue what the team needs are or how they play.


We got one guy saying that Giannis isnt a valuable scoring option when he carried the team to playoffs and made a close series to raptors and then we got another guy saying that Giannis and Middletton pair peaked out... when one is 22 and improving every year and other had injury year.....

Like come on, i understand some level of ignorance but this is embarrassing.

[jute2003]

I didn't say that wasn't a good package -- I didn't wager an opinion on that at all. And no one, me included, said 25 was old with TT and Love. Moot points you interjected.

Cavs would be trading a young player in Irving. Some 9 months older than one of the "young" players you said were needed in a Cavs trade package. My fun fact was to remind all how young Kyrie is. And the type of young they are ideal seeking is more Maker vs. Brogdon.

SOLD.

FYI. Maker is the same age as Brogdon.

Maker is 20 (21 in season) and Brogdon is 24 (25 in season). Soooooo unless you are trying to refer to Maker's age "scandal" not sure 24 and 20 are the same age????

I'm not sure it's even a scandal at this point. It's pretty well accepted that Thon isn't 20.

[7-12-52]

Maker is 20 (21 in season) and Brogdon is 24 (25 in season). Soooooo unless you are trying to refer to Maker's age "scandal" not sure 24 and 20 are the same age????

So you're of the opinion that Thon is only 20? He went to HS twice. The Bucks trying to ignore the liar they have on their team is one thing but don't try to sell him at a higher value based on those lies.

[rugbyrugger23]

Maker is 20 (21 in season) and Brogdon is 24 (25 in season). Soooooo unless you are trying to refer to Maker's age "scandal" not sure 24 and 20 are the same age????

So you're of the opinion that Thon is only 20? He went to HS twice. The Bucks trying to ignore the liar they have on their team is one thing but don't try to sell him at a higher value based on those lies.

Doesn't matter to me what age he is. Published age is 20. 25 by theory-- sure.

Doesn't change the fact that Brogdon, and as it seems Maker too, wouldn't be the young build around-cost-controlled-players Cavs would need.

[Fotis St]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st

Let's do this

[patman52]

I think Prozingas is a young star (2 years in the league), and more potential stars are Murray, Brown, Tatum, and Jackson with 1 year or no years experience. All of those players are 20 give or take a year...not 24 like Brogdan....big difference when you are looking at possibly rebuilding after this year. And yes, I would rather have a Phoenix trade of Bledsoe, Chriss, and a number 1 than Middleton, Brogdan and a # 1, but its close, and really depends on what you feel about Chriss. Bledsoe is a definite starter for Cavs, and not sure Middleton and Brogdan are....not sure Brogdan is a pg.

Who reported that Phx is ready with that package for Kyrie? Is it a phx first or a miami one?

[patman52]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st


Let's do this

You would do Middleton, Brogdon, and Maker for Irving? Why. the bucks were not even one of his preferred stops.

[Fotis St]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st


Let's do this

You would do Middleton, Brogdon, and Maker for Irving? Why. the bucks were not even one of his preferred stops.

I would ... It would be a really tough decision BUT I am sold that Kyrie and Giannis Duo is Curry, Durant like.
I love how young both are and I am certain that they will want to build a dynasty once they get together.
I am absolutely sure they will make it to the ECFs season '17-'18 or the '18-'19.
Giannis is really friendly with his teammates. Giannis will let Kyrie flurish and they can both get to MVP level simultaneously.
I believe we haven't seen the best of Kyrie. He still has room to grow and Giannis is the perfect teammate for him.
Having said all that, I am sure Kyrie will sign an extension with the Bucks in summer 2018 before he even gets to FA.

[Mystical Apples]

My point is the Bucks ceiling with Giannis & Middleton as the two main pieces might be established, and it's not that high. Middleton is a third option on a contending team.

You can't possibly believe this.

I believe it to an extent. I don't think they're much more than a home court team with Kris as a second banana.

Depends on your view of Giannis' ceiling. The age curve for larger wings and 4/5's is slightly different from guards. I'd expect another major leap by age 24, which TBH, kinda sucks for Eastern Conference teams subjected to 25 years of Lebriannis.

And if you believe the different plateau will happen, surrendering assets for a scoring PG today is the last thing MIL needs. Better off keeping Middleton and assets for age 24 Giannis.

[BroncoBuck]

The Bucks real target should be Kemba Walker in free agency in 2 years.

Kyrie isn't worth giving up Middleton. I wouldn't even make that deal straight up.

Curry, Westbrook, Wall, CP3 and Harden take up the top 5 pgs. Next you have a mashup of Conley, Irving, Walker, Bledsoe, Lillard, IT, Lowry, Dragic (probably McCollum if he was on a different team)Is the gap between them that large? No. So why offer a top asset for him?

Not to mention this previous draft was chock full of point guards who may join that group. Heck, if even 30% of those top drafted point guards join that group that's an additional 2 players joining that pack of 8.

If I'm the Suns I continue to bar JJ from any deal involving Kyrie. Offer one of Bender or Chris with Bledsoe and stand pat. I don't see anyone offering any more than that.

[M-C-G]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st

Let's do this

Those packages are madness. Middleton, Parker and Brogdon/Maker is absurd.

Brogdon plus one of Middleton or Parker, future first is where I draw the line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hege53190]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st

Let's do this

Those packages are madness.

You act like this is the first time you have seen a Fotis trade.

[skones]

Cavs options dealing with the Bucks

Rebuilding mode:

Main package: Parker
Additional pieces: Two of ... Wilson, Bucks '18 1st, Brogdon,Maker
Filler: One of Hawes (expiring), Delly, Henson.

Contender mode

Main package: Middleton
Additional pieces: Two of ... Brogdon, Maker, Parker, Wilson, Bucks '18 1st

Let's do this

Those packages are madness. Middleton, Parker and Brogdon/Maker is absurd.

Brogdon plus one of Middleton or Parker, future first is where I draw the line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean, he's often on an island on our board.

[Xanadu]

I wouldn't do Middleton for Kyrie either. Even if you think the value's good, the fit with Kyrie and no Middleton isn't good. And I'm not even sure I'd do it anyway, Kyrie's a "star" because of media attention.

So true I will take Middleton who plays defense and takes good shots and will play within the flow of offense (not that Kidd has any offense to run). Over Kyrie bounding the ball and taking a bunch of contested mid rangers even if the he then makes a incredible drive and finish. Because after that flashy drive and finish he will let the opposing guard drive right past him. Look Kyrie is score first guard and while being a great one just isn't the type of guy I want to gut our team for. Giving up Middleton a great two way guard who will make the all star game and a two way glue guy in Brogdon who although being old has room to improve for a score first guard who makes us a top three in the east who still will get ousted by Lebron isn't worth it. Also hitting a big shot in the finals doesn't make him worth anything more to me. Derek Fisher hit big shots it doesn't make you a better player the clutch factor is a total random thing that fans seem to think really matters but in reality is very overblown.

[bondom34]

In the end the issue isn't Kyrie or Middleton, its that if the Bucks want to be a really good team they'd need them both. Kyrie without Middleton isn't a great fit and drops off too much defensively, Middleton without Kyrie we already know works well and Kyrie's not making that big an impact on a team that doesn't need a PG who's iso heavy and low on defense to keep the ball from Giannis. If you can pair him with Middleton you do it, but I'd look into packages involving Parker. I'd see if Parker/Brogdon/picks to a 3rd team could get some value to the Cavs and run from there.

[DowJones]

You can't possibly believe this.

I believe it to an extent. I don't think they're much more than a home court team with Kris as a second banana.

Depends on your view of Giannis' ceiling. The age curve for larger wings and 4/5's is slightly different from guards. I'd expect another major leap by age 24, which TBH, kinda sucks for Eastern Conference teams subjected to 25 years of Lebriannis.

And if you believe the different plateau will happen, surrendering assets for a scoring PG today is the last thing MIL needs. Better off keeping Middleton and assets for age 24 Giannis.

But if the team's second best player is Middleton then maybe they max-out as a 1 year NBA Finals team that loses in 4 or 5 to the West.

[Mystical Apples]

I believe it to an extent. I don't think they're much more than a home court team with Kris as a second banana.

Depends on your view of Giannis' ceiling. The age curve for larger wings and 4/5's is slightly different from guards. I'd expect another major leap by age 24, which TBH, kinda sucks for Eastern Conference teams subjected to 25 years of Lebriannis.

And if you believe the different plateau will happen, surrendering assets for a scoring PG today is the last thing MIL needs. Better off keeping Middleton and assets for age 24 Giannis.

But if the team's second best player is Middleton then maybe they max-out as a 1 year NBA Finals team that loses in 4 or 5 to the West.

Perhaps but getting bounced in the 1st round and making The Finals when Giannis is 24 thru 27 are entirely different ceilings (and hardly on Middleton). I believe in the latter which makes swapping the better-fitting Middleton for Kyrie counterproductive. Besides, not sure why Milwaukee burns valuable matches at PG when the difference between the 9th and 15th "best" PG is fairly marginal.

[jute2003]

You can't possibly believe this.

I believe it to an extent. I don't think they're much more than a home court team with Kris as a second banana.

Depends on your view of Giannis' ceiling. The age curve for larger wings and 4/5's is slightly different from guards. I'd expect another major leap by age 24, which TBH, kinda sucks for Eastern Conference teams subjected to 25 years of Lebriannis.

And if you believe the different plateau will happen, surrendering assets for a scoring PG today is the last thing MIL needs. Better off keeping Middleton and assets for age 24 Giannis.

I believe Giannis will be a top 5 player in MVP talks every year but he's not LeBron. Simply having him on the roster won't be enough to be an instant contender.