RealGM

Relatively small and simple deal:

OKC in: Shumpert
OKC out: McDermott, Singler, Christon (nong.), Husetis, 2018 CHI 2nd; 2018 BOS or OKC 2nd

CLE in: Christon (nong.)
CLE out: Shumpert

BKN in: McDermott, Husetis, better of BOS or OKC 2018 2nd

ATL in: Singler, 2018 CHI 2nd

Thunder get 3&D wing they lack while not giving anything of significant value besides Bulls 2018 2nd and maintaining a solid bench of Felton-Abrines-Roberson-Grant-Kanter. Even clear 500k on cap to stay under luxury.

Cleveland clear Shumpert contract as they are looking to.

Hawks take on Singler in exchange for early 2nd (#31-35) via Bulls.

Nets absorb Husetis small contract in exchange for McDermott tryout and likely a late 2nd. (could throw in both).

TBH I'd rather just stick with the junk OKC's got instead of taking more expensive junk. And I don't see why the Nets do it either.

OKC trades bunch of guys who'd hardly see the floor and PT for a guy that might actually be usefull since he is at worst average defender for a starter and solid 3pt shooter (36% last year imo), and are saving 500k in cap doing so.

As for Nets, they can't do much more than accumulate talent and give them opportunity, and while I am not high on McDermott, he still has some rep left and could become a servicable role player retainable for cheap. One or two late 2nd aren't dealmakers but aren't trash either in Nets context.

But OKC doesn't need a 3rd SG enough to trade for a bad overpaid one. And the Nets aren't really accumulating much. The Cavs are getting a ton of savings for free.

bondom34 wrote:But OKC doesn't need a 3rd SG enough to trade for a bad overpaid one. And the Nets aren't really accumulating much. The Cavs are getting a ton of savings for free.

I think I'd probably do the trade, if for no other reason it opens up roster spots.

They could use their 4.9 million TPE or sign and/or sign a player to a veteran minimum contract.

Dn4sty wrote:

bondom34 wrote:But OKC doesn't need a 3rd SG enough to trade for a bad overpaid one. And the Nets aren't really accumulating much. The Cavs are getting a ton of savings for free.

I think I'd probably do the trade, if for no other reason it opens up roster spots.

They could use their 4.9 million TPE or sign and/or sign a player to a veteran minimum contract.

I see that, but they wouldn't because they'd be even further into the tax.

OKC has Roberson which makes them the wrong team for this type of trade. But there are teams where he'd be the best wing defender.

bondom34 wrote:

Dn4sty wrote:

bondom34 wrote:But OKC doesn't need a 3rd SG enough to trade for a bad overpaid one. And the Nets aren't really accumulating much. The Cavs are getting a ton of savings for free.

I think I'd probably do the trade, if for no other reason it opens up roster spots.

They could use their 4.9 million TPE or sign and/or sign a player to a veteran minimum contract.

I see that, but they wouldn't because they'd be even further into the tax.

I think the tax bill is somewhat down the list of priorities for this Thunder team. I think they are all in this year and tax is a consideration, but not the primary concern.

I don't actually see Roberson as starter quality, but well, guess I'll try Pels one now

Roberson is just better than Shump.

A wing who get's hacked to a FT line is not starter quality imo in any case, and I wouldn't want him starting in possibly a crucial year for a franchise.

A wing who is nearly as bad offensively and not close defensively shoudln't start anywhere. Robes is by far a better player. BPM, RPM, heck even PER.

http://bkref.com/tiny/3pkaO

Roberson is great defender, true, but he can't stop top players as he didn't with Harden, and he limits your offense no matter what, since he is just left in the corner standing. Makes it a lot harder, more static for his team on that end in half court imo. His offensive arsenal is comparable to D only centers (cuts and lobs basically).

Not claiming Shumpert is great starter but he can be your 5th man, average defender (or better when he puts in effort) and floor spacer, which is also valuable especially with guys like Westbrook and George on team.

(Roberson is strictly that, defensive specialist and you need to have a more balanced player to share minutes with him, and Abrines isn't that imo. Also think Roberson might bring stability to your 2nd unit with his D)

realEAST wrote:Roberson is great defender, true, but he can't stop top players as he didn't with Harden, and he limits your offense no matter what, since he is just left in the corner standing. Makes it a lot harder, more static for his team on that end in half court imo. His offensive arsenal is comparable to D only centers (cuts and lobs basically).

Not claiming Shumpert is great starter but he can be your 5th man, average defender (or better when he puts in effort) and floor spacer, which is also valuable especially with guys like Westbrook and George on team.

(Roberson is strictly that, defensive specialist and you need to have a more balanced player to share minutes with him, and Abrines isn't that imo. Also think Roberson might bring stability to your 2nd unit with his D)

Except 1 on 1 defense isn't everything. Team defense is. When he's on court he's covering not just for his own man, and that's where his value lies. Couldn't care if Harden goes for 50 if Houston's offense is worse for it.

And Shump isn't a 5th man, he's barely 10th man, Roberson's just a way better overall player. Shump does nothing very well, and Roberson is a capable off ball offensive player who cuts well, passes fairly well and has developed some ball handling. Shump's offensive arsenal is standing in a corner and being a mediocre shooter, and his defense isn't remotely near Roberson's.

Honestly I'd start Abrines over Shump pretty easily.

bondom34 wrote:

realEAST wrote:Roberson is great defender, true, but he can't stop top players as he didn't with Harden, and he limits your offense no matter what, since he is just left in the corner standing. Makes it a lot harder, more static for his team on that end in half court imo. His offensive arsenal is comparable to D only centers (cuts and lobs basically).

Not claiming Shumpert is great starter but he can be your 5th man, average defender (or better when he puts in effort) and floor spacer, which is also valuable especially with guys like Westbrook and George on team.

(Roberson is strictly that, defensive specialist and you need to have a more balanced player to share minutes with him, and Abrines isn't that imo. Also think Roberson might bring stability to your 2nd unit with his D)

Except 1 on 1 defense isn't everything. Team defense is. When he's on court he's covering not just for his own man, and that's where his value lies. Couldn't care if Harden goes for 50 if Houston's offense is worse for it.

And Shump isn't a 5th man, he's barely 10th man, Roberson's just a way better overall player. Shump does nothing very well, and Roberson is a capable off ball offensive player who cuts well, passes fairly well and has developed some ball handling. Shump's offensive arsenal is standing in a corner and being a mediocre shooter, and his defense isn't remotely near Roberson's.

Honestly I'd start Abrines over Shump pretty easily.

No offense, but you still lost that series. And to say Shump does nothing well on offense and Robes is good handler and passer is kind of funny really.

Shumpert is better at above mentioned aspects - heck, he even came in the league as combo guard, playing some PG.
Plus he is in his physical prime, 27, so not unimaginable he improves his performance if put in persobally better situation (finally puts a good season on both end of the floor simultaniously).

But it is not even a point if Shump vs. Robes, but Shump vs McDermott, Christon, Singler and Husetis, don't know what's not to like.

realEAST wrote:
No offense, but you still lost that series. And to say Shump does nothing well on offense and Robes is good handler and passer is kind of funny really.

Shumpert is better at above mentioned aspects - heck, he even came in the league as combo guard, playing some PG.
Plus he is in his physical prime, 27, so not unimaginable he improves his performance if put in persobally better situation (finally puts a good season on both end of the floor simultaniously).

But it is not even a point if Shump vs. Robes, but Shump vs McDermott, Christon, Singler and Husetis, don't know what's not to like.

And GSW beat the Cavs, so Shump sucks too...

The Thunder won the series with the starters, when Robes played. And I said Shump is better on offense, but the gap isn't remotely close to the defensive gap, he sucks, is older, more expensive, and has regressed. I posted the numbers above, and Roberson, overall, is a largely better player due to a massive defensive gap.

And even at that price he'd be behind Roberson and Abrines, and I'd rather just play Ferguson at that point and develop him instead of 11 mil on a 3rd string SG.

bondom34 wrote:

realEAST wrote:
No offense, but you still lost that series. And to say Shump does nothing well on offense and Robes is good handler and passer is kind of funny really.

Shumpert is better at above mentioned aspects - heck, he even came in the league as combo guard, playing some PG.
Plus he is in his physical prime, 27, so not unimaginable he improves his performance if put in persobally better situation (finally puts a good season on both end of the floor simultaniously).

But it is not even a point if Shump vs. Robes, but Shump vs McDermott, Christon, Singler and Husetis, don't know what's not to like.

And GSW beat the Cavs, so Shump sucks too...

The Thunder won the series with the starters, when Robes played. And I said Shump is better on offense, but the gap isn't remotely close to the defensive gap, he sucks, is older, more expensive, and has regressed. I posted the numbers above, and Roberson, overall, is a largely better player due to a massive defensive gap.

And even at that price he'd be behind Roberson and Abrines, and I'd rather just play Ferguson at that point and develop him instead of 11 mil on a 3rd string SG.

As there is value to help D, there is also value to being a floor spacer that goes beyond individual player stats, especially when player can hold his own on D.
More so when you have pretty good defensive team as Thunder does and one average defender but more capable player on offense would have greater impact overall than great defender with no offense.
But it hard to back it with numbers, it is my opinion.

And I wouldn't want to drag it any further since you are clearly satisfied with your team, and you obviously know it better than I do, so thanks for a nice discussion

realEAST wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

realEAST wrote:
No offense, but you still lost that series. And to say Shump does nothing well on offense and Robes is good handler and passer is kind of funny really.

Shumpert is better at above mentioned aspects - heck, he even came in the league as combo guard, playing some PG.
Plus he is in his physical prime, 27, so not unimaginable he improves his performance if put in persobally better situation (finally puts a good season on both end of the floor simultaniously).

But it is not even a point if Shump vs. Robes, but Shump vs McDermott, Christon, Singler and Husetis, don't know what's not to like.

And GSW beat the Cavs, so Shump sucks too...

The Thunder won the series with the starters, when Robes played. And I said Shump is better on offense, but the gap isn't remotely close to the defensive gap, he sucks, is older, more expensive, and has regressed. I posted the numbers above, and Roberson, overall, is a largely better player due to a massive defensive gap.

And even at that price he'd be behind Roberson and Abrines, and I'd rather just play Ferguson at that point and develop him instead of 11 mil on a 3rd string SG.

As there is value to help D, there is also value to being a floor spacer that goes beyond individual player stats, especially when player can hold his own on D.
More so when you have pretty good defensive team as Thunder does and one average defender but more capable player on offense would have greater impact overall than great defender with no offense.
But it hard to back it with numbers, it is my opinion.

And I wouldn't want to drag it any further since you are clearly satisfied with your team, and you obviously know it better than I do, so thanks for a nice discussion

I'll leave it here.

Shump isn't a floor spacer, and the Cavs were better defensively when he was on the bench. He also had a negative DRPM.

Also, I'm all for trades, just no need for a 3rd string SG.

realEAST wrote:Relatively small and simple deal:

OKC in: Shumpert
OKC out: McDermott, Singler, Christon (nong.), Husetis, 2018 CHI 2nd; 2018 BOS or OKC 2nd

CLE in: Christon (nong.)
CLE out: Shumpert

BKN in: McDermott, Husetis, better of BOS or OKC 2018 2nd

ATL in: Singler, 2018 CHI 2nd

Thunder get 3&D wing they lack while not giving anything of significant value besides Bulls 2018 2nd and maintaining a solid bench of Felton-Abrines-Roberson-Grant-Kanter. Even clear 500k on cap to stay under luxury.

Cleveland clear Shumpert contract as they are looking to.

Hawks take on Singler in exchange for early 2nd (#31-35) via Bulls.

Nets absorb Husetis small contract in exchange for McDermott tryout and likely a late 2nd. (could throw in both).

I think Atlanta has 15 players under contract so they'll have to release someone.
Atlanta passes on this deal, Singler has 3 years left on his deal. Along with Bazemore and Plumlee with 3 year contracts as well that's already 2 more high dollar salaries vs production.