Aldridge to Detroit!

[Pharaoh]

Wow. The target was to the right and you fired left. Way left. No one said defensive guru, said he was good defensively. He plays that end. Using PPG and RPG as comparative stats is at least half a decade out of date. He could start declining, or he could have another good 3-4 years left. And then a personal attack as the coup de grâce. Fantastic.

Not getting into the slinging match but:

LMA is 32

SVG doesn't need the "win now jolt" and ALL his moves since being hired show that

He was hired to rebuild the entire organization!

He has done this while not sacrificing the future for a short term fix, despite rumours claiming Detroit would be happy to part with their first for veteran help.

SVG has essentially acquired assets and flipped some of them for greater assets!

Gave up nothing for Mook & Bullock...flipped Morris for AB

Gave up nothing for Illyasova...flipped him (& Jennings) for Harris.

Gave up nothing for RJ

And yet every Detroit trade on this board has the Pistons giving up quality assets for lesser ones!

I've seen LMA proposals, Jabari Parker proposals, Ryan Anderson proposals & all anyone wants to say as justification is that Detroit needs to win now!

In all those scenarios the Pistons assume all the risk! What has SVG done thus far to show he's a risk taker?

Every deal he's done has been a obvious, opportunistic win for Detroit.

The season before last we won 44 games and made the playoffs. That's what ownership wants! The East is weaker now since Chicago, Atlanta & Indiana lost studs!

I think it's painfully obvious the vast majority of people don't know enough about the Pistons situation AND refuse to learn since I've posted the same thing over and over again all off-season!

I see what you're saying, but the point remains SVG was hired to win. Is just making the playoffs on the treadmill enough winning? Or does there need to be the hope of more? Because right now their ceiling is the 8 seed & 1st round sweep by Cleveland or Boston. Can't imagine that's too exciting for Gores, especially in a weak East. I do think LMA improves that outlook somewhat.

I'll address this again:

Gores wants a playoff team. SVG has been outspoken against tanking. BOTH have spoken about the team being a "community asset"

Right now reaching the playoffs consistently is THE goal!

After that happens who knows what Gores and SVG will decide?

You might think their ceiling is the 8th seed - they likely believe they can finish higher than that (5th)

Either way acquiring LMA doesn't really help them achieve the playoff goal - he's a short term solution that doesn't help long term.

That's not the approach Gores & SVG have taken thus far and if they were gonna trade for a vet it would have happened at the Draft.

The other issue here is Harris' value. It's not nearly as high as is being implied. I'd argue LMA has more value, even adjusting for age.

You can argue Harris' value all you like mate. I'm a big believer in him and tbh LMA has fallen off a cliff since signing with SA.

That's just my eyes though - I don't get into advanced numbers or even traditional numbers

[Chinook]

The Value is not horrible here but I struggle to see why either team would do it. I guess if SA kind of wants to get a little younger it sort of makes sense for them. For Detroit I am not sure.

SAS and Aldridge are ready to part ways. Harris could be a great running mate for Leonard moving forward.

SVG needs a winner and I think this move makes them better in the short term.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Is it really that bad?

No, it's not. It's really not. I like Harris well enough, but with Gay on the team it just doesn't make sense. I don't disagree that LMA isn't an on-court fit for the Pistons, but I do think people are concerning themselves way too much with "timelines". The Pistons don't have a timeline. They don't have any legit star or player with likely star potential. Therefore, they don't have any reason to believe that they'll be considerably better in a few years than they are now unless they make a few moves. You can argue that LMA is not one of those moves, but you can't argue that Detroit should wait to make one. Same goes for Charlotte, but that's a different thread, obviously.

[dakomish23]

SAS and Aldridge are ready to part ways. Harris could be a great running mate for Leonard moving forward.

SVG needs a winner and I think this move makes them better in the short term.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Is it really that bad?

No, it's not. It's really not. I like Harris well enough, but with Gay on the team it just doesn't make sense. I don't disagree that LMA isn't an on-court fit for the Pistons, but I do think people are concerning themselves way too much with "timelines". The Pistons don't have a timeline. They don't have any legit star or player with likely star potential. Therefore, they don't have any reason to believe that they'll be considerably better in a few years than they are now unless they make a few moves. You can argue that LMA is not one of those moves, but you can't argue that Detroit should wait to make one. Same goes for Charlotte, but that's a different thread, obviously.

I don't get the perception of LMA lacking trade value. He's still good. Is he top 15 good? No. Doesnt mean he's not an impactful player. If I was a GM I would call up Buford.

What do you think of a Jonas / Bebe for LMA swap? I think both teams win.

[the_process]

You might think their ceiling is the 8th seed - they likely believe they can finish higher than that (5th)

Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte.

[MotownMadness]

You might think their ceiling is the 8th seed - they likely believe they can finish higher than that (5th)

Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte.

While Pistons aren't anything special it's not completely unrealistic for them to be a 5th or 6th seed in that group. We will see soon enough though.

[Chinook]

Is it really that bad?

No, it's not. It's really not. I like Harris well enough, but with Gay on the team it just doesn't make sense. I don't disagree that LMA isn't an on-court fit for the Pistons, but I do think people are concerning themselves way too much with "timelines". The Pistons don't have a timeline. They don't have any legit star or player with likely star potential. Therefore, they don't have any reason to believe that they'll be considerably better in a few years than they are now unless they make a few moves. You can argue that LMA is not one of those moves, but you can't argue that Detroit should wait to make one. Same goes for Charlotte, but that's a different thread, obviously.

I don't get the perception of LMA lacking trade value. He's still good. Is he top 15 good? No. Doesnt mean he's not an impactful player. If I was a GM I would call up Buford.

What do you think of a Jonas / Bebe for LMA swap? I think both teams win.

I'd rather stay the course, honestly. LMA has shown he can be a strong second option against GS while also being a potential great third option. I don't think trading for Valanciunas would make sense. As far as bringing in Noguiera to balance out the roster, I'd rather just sign David Lee.

I may sound like a broken record, but all we've really heard about SA in the trade market is that they were offering LMA for a top-five pick and then both LMA and Green were on the table in talks with the Cavs but the teams couldn't come to a deal. To add to that relatively non-controversial reporting, we had speculation on McMullan's and SAS' parts that LMA was trying to force a trade, LMA selling his house in SA and temporarily unfollowing the Spurs on social media, and Zach Lowe saying the Spurs might trade Aldridge. His value has been tanked by reports that he was on the table for a really high price and speculation, nothing really factual.

[Chinook]

You might think their ceiling is the 8th seed - they likely believe they can finish higher than that (5th)

Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte.

Honestly, I wonder if Charlotte would have been a good destination for LMA and Danny Green this past off-season. Walker/Green/Batum/Aldridge/Howard is a very talented and well-balanced SL, and depending on what trade would have been used to create that, they would have been like an MLE away from having a top-four rotation.

[Pharaoh]

SAS and Aldridge are ready to part ways. Harris could be a great running mate for Leonard moving forward.

SVG needs a winner and I think this move makes them better in the short term.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Is it really that bad?

No, it's not. It's really not. I like Harris well enough, but with Gay on the team it just doesn't make sense. I don't disagree that LMA isn't an on-court fit for the Pistons, but I do think people are concerning themselves way too much with "timelines". The Pistons don't have a timeline. They don't have any legit star or player with likely star potential. Therefore, they don't have any reason to believe that they'll be considerably better in a few years than they are now unless they make a few moves. You can argue that LMA is not one of those moves, but you can't argue that Detroit should wait to make one. Same goes for Charlotte, but that's a different thread, obviously.

To the bold:

Agree the Pistons don't have a legit star player.

Agree they have no reason to believe they'll be considerably better in a few years unless they make a few moves

Disagree that Detroit shouldn't wait to make a move.

Quick fixes rarely work and a 32 year old LMA is not gonna solve the issues in Detroit.

Acquiring him doesn't make us considerably better now or in the future

[Moses ShamMoses]

The only way i'd be interested in 32 year old LMA is if we got him for cheap. Harris + SJ isn't cheap in my book so I'd pass. If we could trade Jon Leuer + Boban + Middling Prospect/protected 1st rounder, sure i'd do it. That middling prospect could be Henry Ellenson. I think all three of those guys would do well in SA.

[Chinook]

The only way i'd be interested in 32 year old LMA is if we got him for cheap. Harris + SJ isn't cheap in my book so I'd pass. If we could trade Jon Leuer + Boban + Middling Prospect/protected 1st rounder, sure i'd do it. That middling prospect could be Henry Ellenson. I think all three of those guys would do well in SA.

I don't think Pop wants anything to do with SVG's ... more ambitious acquisitions. The idea of getting Aldridge for cheap may be something worth exploring at the deadline, but no way SA looks to move him for a package like this before the season starts. Kills any title hopes they have for no future gain.

[MotownMadness]

The only way i'd be interested in 32 year old LMA is if we got him for cheap. Harris + SJ isn't cheap in my book so I'd pass. If we could trade Jon Leuer + Boban + Middling Prospect/protected 1st rounder, sure i'd do it. That middling prospect could be Henry Ellenson. I think all three of those guys would do well in SA.

I don't think Pop wants anything to do with SVG's ... more ambitious acquisitions. The idea of getting Aldridge for cheap may be something worth exploring at the deadline, but no way SA looks to move him for a package like this before the season starts. Kills any title hopes they have for no future gain.

You don't have any title hopes and your not getting a 25 year old Tobias Harris who is much cheaper and just as good and will probably be much better this year Then LMA.

LMA is older, fatter, slower and just a a mid range shooter who's never been really efficient even in his prime.

Harris is young and entering his prime while scoring just as much but is more versatile inside and out.

Plus you want 21 year old rookie who's already a really good defender, just not happening.

[Mykhyn]

The only way i'd be interested in 32 year old LMA is if we got him for cheap. Harris + SJ isn't cheap in my book so I'd pass. If we could trade Jon Leuer + Boban + Middling Prospect/protected 1st rounder, sure i'd do it. That middling prospect could be Henry Ellenson. I think all three of those guys would do well in SA.

I don't think Pop wants anything to do with SVG's ... more ambitious acquisitions. The idea of getting Aldridge for cheap may be something worth exploring at the deadline, but no way SA looks to move him for a package like this before the season starts. Kills any title hopes they have for no future gain.

You don't have any title hopes and your not getting a 25 year old Tobias Harris who is much cheaper and just as good and will probably be much better this year Then LMA.

LMA is older, fatter, slower and just a a mid range shooter who's never been really efficient even in his prime.

Harris is young and entering his prime while scoring just as much but is more versatile inside and out.

Plus you want 21 year old rookie who's already a really good defender, just not happening.

If you're going to focus on defense for 1 player you kind of need to take it into consideration for them all.

Aldridge's defense dwarfs Harris's and its not even close.

Theres about 0 chance Harris is better than Aldridge this coming year for that reason alone.

Aldridge would be the clear #1 option on the Pistons even if they retained Harris.


Also no title hopes? Spurs were dominating the Warriors until Kawhi went down. And he's healthy now.

[MotownMadness]

I don't think Pop wants anything to do with SVG's ... more ambitious acquisitions. The idea of getting Aldridge for cheap may be something worth exploring at the deadline, but no way SA looks to move him for a package like this before the season starts. Kills any title hopes they have for no future gain.

You don't have any title hopes and your not getting a 25 year old Tobias Harris who is much cheaper and just as good and will probably be much better this year Then LMA.

LMA is older, fatter, slower and just a a mid range shooter who's never been really efficient even in his prime.

Harris is young and entering his prime while scoring just as much but is more versatile inside and out.

Plus you want 21 year old rookie who's already a really good defender, just not happening.

If you're going to focus on defense for 1 player you kind of need to take it into consideration for them all.

Aldridge's defense dwarfs Harris's and its not even close.

Theres about 0 chance Harris is better than Aldridge this coming year for that reason alone.

Aldridge would be the clear #1 option on the Pistons even if they retained Harris.


Also no title hopes? Spurs were dominating the Warriors until Kawhi went down. And he's healthy now.

Don't see how as I can't picture LMA out guarding guys on the perimeters in small ball. Harris isn't that good of a defender but he is built like a wing that can actually get up and down the court. Either way there's just too much age gap and price difference that doesn't match up with the talent difference at this point of their careers.

[Chinook]

The only way i'd be interested in 32 year old LMA is if we got him for cheap. Harris + SJ isn't cheap in my book so I'd pass. If we could trade Jon Leuer + Boban + Middling Prospect/protected 1st rounder, sure i'd do it. That middling prospect could be Henry Ellenson. I think all three of those guys would do well in SA.

I don't think Pop wants anything to do with SVG's ... more ambitious acquisitions. The idea of getting Aldridge for cheap may be something worth exploring at the deadline, but no way SA looks to move him for a package like this before the season starts. Kills any title hopes they have for no future gain.

You don't have any title hopes and your not getting a 25 year old Tobias Harris who is much cheaper and just as good and will probably be much better this year Then LMA.

LMA is older, fatter, slower and just a a mid range shooter who's never been really efficient even in his prime.

Harris is young and entering his prime while scoring just as much but is more versatile inside and out.

Plus you want 21 year old rookie who's already a really good defender, just not happening.

You make it sound like I am pushing for this trade. My first post in here was saying I understood why the trade didn't make sense. The only reason why I commented at all was to dispel the notion that Detroit has a timeline. They don't. You need franchise players before you get a window to worry about. Just having youngish guys isn't enough.

Anyway, the Spurs totally have title hopes -- they just have to hope to be luckier against GS than they were last year. If Curry or KD got that injury instead of Kawhi, the Spurs may well be champions right now. I'd like to see a straight-up series at this point. The Spurs have the talent to compete, but that talent comes with a lot more qualifiers than it ever has before.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Pistons have a timeline of sorts with the current roster. Its not a timeline to win a championship but with a younger roster they can at least compete for decent playoff positioning for more years versus trading for older guys on the way down. Most teams in the NBA wont be able to reasonably compete for a 'ship anytime soon, so its not like Detroit is in a terrible place.

[Chinook]

Pistons have a timeline of sorts with the current roster. Its not a timeline to win a championship but with a younger roster they can at least compete for decent playoff positioning for more years versus trading for older guys on the way down. Most teams in the NBA wont be able to reasonably compete for a 'ship anytime soon, so its not like Detroit is in a terrible place.

I am skeptical that a) that's actually a window and b) that's something you need to protect. The least volatile team in the East has been the Atlanta Hawks, who will likely still find a way to make the playoffs this season despite the fact that they REALLY don't look like they will right now. The Hawks have managed to maintain their streak despite constantly redoing their roster and changing coaches (and front offices and ownership). The Memphis Grizzlies have done it while changing coaches and styles, and making win-now trades and signings. But teams like Denver and Utah fetishized their rosters and petered out.

Again, whether LMA is the right trade or not is beside the point (since it's not even a rumored deal) what is the point is that you can make trades for older players at the expense of younger players, take the short window of competitiveness and when that closes, make another move or set moves to open it again. Until you get someone who can take you to the promised land, you can keep trying to find out what works. That's what teams with long windows do.

[Pharaoh]

Pistons have a timeline of sorts with the current roster. Its not a timeline to win a championship but with a younger roster they can at least compete for decent playoff positioning for more years versus trading for older guys on the way down. Most teams in the NBA wont be able to reasonably compete for a 'ship anytime soon, so its not like Detroit is in a terrible place.

I am skeptical that a) that's actually a window and b) that's something you need to protect. The least volatile team in the East has been the Atlanta Hawks, who will likely still find a way to make the playoffs this season despite the fact that they REALLY don't look like they will right now. The Hawks have managed to maintain their streak despite constantly redoing their roster and changing coaches (and front offices and ownership). The Memphis Grizzlies have done it while changing coaches and styles, and making win-now trades and signings. But teams like Denver and Utah fetishized their rosters and petered out.

Again, whether LMA is the right trade or not is beside the point (since it's not even a rumored deal) what is the point is that you can make trades for older players at the expense of younger players, take the short window of competitiveness and when that closes, make another move or set moves to open it again. Until you get someone who can take you to the promised land, you can keep trying to find out what works. That's what teams with long windows do.

Detroit made the playoffs with Drummond & RJ as the offensive focus after acquiring Harris and people thought they'd repeat that last season.

So they've got "someone" to take them to the "promise land" & they know that it works!

RJ was limited due to injury and despite this the Pistons were in the playoff "race" until Feb/March, 4 wins out of the 4th seed (if memory serves) until a late losing streak dropped them out

IF you're SVG you could look at last season and honestly say that the team overachieved without RJ.

Trading for LMA is a short sighted attempt to rush the process.

And who would play SF if SJ & Harris are dealt?

RJ, AB, Ish, Kennard & Galloway complete the backcourt

SJ, Harris, Jon, Tolliver, Henry are the forwards

Without SJ & Harris we have... Bullock! None of the other guys can log significant minutes at SF & it's debatable if Bull can as well!

"Detroit could make another trade" - so the idea is we make a deal for LMA & then make another one for a SF and those 2 additions are going to get us a playoff spot?

That would mean we've added a new SG, SF & PF this season to the starting line up. That is significant change and would take them some time to gel AND in the end everything would still come back to Reggie Jackson's health!

[Chinook]

Detroit made the playoffs with Drummond & RJ as the offensive focus after acquiring Harris and people thought they'd repeat that last season.

So they've got "someone" to take them to the "promise land" & they know that it works!

The playoffs are not the promised land. They are the mountain. There are significantly more ways to getting to the mountain than the one SVG happened to find. That was the point of my post.

IF you're SVG you could look at last season and honestly say that the team overachieved without RJ.

That's a pretty hard sell in the East.

Trading for LMA is a short sighted attempt to rush the process.

What process? And I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not pushing for a LMA deal. I'd rather have Aldridge as it is.

"Detroit could make another trade" - so the idea is we make a deal for LMA & then make another one for a SF and those 2 additions are going to get us a playoff spot?

No, the point of what I was saying is that the "window" of being a mediocre playoff team can be held open indefinitely. Trading for a 32-year-old player now may mean that player declines in a couple of years and has to be replaced, but replacing them shouldn't be that hard. Just make a similar trade again and keep going. Not every trade is the Brooklyn trade. Teams give up young players and picks and move on without being crippled after a couple of years. It's not a big deal.

[Pharaoh]

Detroit made the playoffs with Drummond & RJ as the offensive focus after acquiring Harris and people thought they'd repeat that last season.

So they've got "someone" to take them to the "promise land" & they know that it works!

The playoffs are not the promised land. They are the mountain. There are significantly more ways to getting to the mountain than the one SVG happened to find. That was the point of my post.

Agreed, but irrelevant to the discussion

IF you're SVG you could look at last season and honestly say that the team overachieved without RJ.

That's a pretty hard sell in the East. [/quote]

Really? RJ missed 30 games completely and was obviously hampered in at least another 10 - we're talking about a guy that excelled in the PnR the year before, finishing 53% at the rim and then finishing at 48%...

Significant drop due to his knee and not much else.

To lose the guy that is essential for a PG dominated offense is THE reason they struggled mightily

Pistons went from 43 wins to 37 - I think it's fair to say they overachieved given RJ missed those 30 games and Ish was forced to start.

Trading for LMA is a short sighted attempt to rush the process.

What process? And I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not pushing for a LMA deal. I'd rather have Aldridge as it is.[/quote]

The slow and steady process SVG begun when he was hired! They made the playoffs without making short sighted moves. LMA is not the move the Pistons should be looking to make right now

"Detroit could make another trade" - so the idea is we make a deal for LMA & then make another one for a SF and those 2 additions are going to get us a playoff spot?

No, the point of what I was saying is that the "window" of being a mediocre playoff team can be held open indefinitely. Trading for a 32-year-old player now may mean that player declines in a couple of years and has to be replaced, but replacing them shouldn't be that hard. Just make a similar trade again and keep going. Not every trade is the Brooklyn trade. Teams give up young players and picks and move on without being crippled after a couple of years. It's not a big deal.[/quote]

I'm not arguing that being a mediocre playoff team has a short shelf life. I agree that window can be open indefinitely

What I'm saying is that as constructed SVG likely believes the window is open and it's on them to walk through it!

If you're not a fan of the proposal then what are we really discussing here? The Pistons future? Happy to do that on the Pistons board

[Chinook]

I'm not arguing that being a mediocre playoff team has a short shelf life. I agree that window can be open indefinitely

What I'm saying is that as constructed SVG likely believes the window is open and it's on them to walk through it!

If you're not a fan of the proposal then what are we really discussing here? The Pistons future? Happy to do that on the Pistons board

First, I don't think Stan signed up to lead a treadmill team. Detroit is a relatively active team trade-wise, which suggests Van Gundy isn't married to anyone on the roster. He knows as well as anyone that he can shuffle the decks a lot and still make the playoffs. He doesn't need Jackson, Drummond or Harris to do it. He just needs good players he can coach, and those guys are not ultra rare.

I'm really not a fan of any Spurs trades. The reason why I am commenting on this thread is because I feel that too many people are concerned with "timelines" when that really only applies to like Minnesota, Philly and Phoenix (maybe). There were Jazz fans complaining last year about trades for older players that didn't fit their timeline. But now of course, their star left, their starting PG moved on and their second-best big is saddled with injury problems at like 26, so what looked like a future to plan for became murky again.

The Pistons have Harris locked in for one more year after this one. After that, they'll either keep him for a raise or let him walk -- and that's if he doesn't peter out and become unremarkable. Jackson has another year after that. The "window" then is more like two years, not five or six. Especially if Detroit gets to keep control of their draft picks, I don't see any particular reason to avoid trades for older guys. even if they are only a modest upgrade.