Gobert to bos w/mil

Post #61 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:42 pm

OFWGKTA wrote:
Baynes is a 15mpg guy that makes 4 mil, enough said.

Yes in a thread about Gobert this statement in any fashion is funny.

Post #62 » by **BullyKing** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:43 pm

bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Nor do I. But he does have a penchant for not trading for top 10 players of late so I guess you're right.

Ok I'll bite, what top 10 player has been dealt? The only one I see is Jimmy Butler, who is fringe top 10 at best.

A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

And let's get real. Whether Gobert is a top-10, top-15 or top-20 player is irrelevant to the fact that saying Boston wouldn't be interested in him is one of the most absurd homerific takes in recent memory on this board.

Post #63 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:44 pm

bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Nor do I. But he does have a penchant for not trading for top 10 players of late so I guess you're right.

Ok I'll bite, what top 10 player has been dealt? The only one I see is Jimmy Butler, who is fringe top 10 at best.

A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

Post #64 » by **loserX** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Not sure what all this top-10/top-15 business is about. Does a guy really have to be in the top 10 before Ainge decides he wants him?

Boston could really use a C. Gobert is one of the best in the league, whether you think he's top-3 or top-5 is moot.

I'm certainly willing to hear arguments why Ainge still wouldn't want Rudy, but so far I haven't heard any.

OFWGKTA · Post #65 » by **OFWGKTA** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:46 pm

bondom34 wrote:
OFWGKTA wrote:
Baynes is a 15mpg guy that makes 4 mil, enough said.

Yes in a thread about Gobert this statement in any fashion is funny.

You'd think after years on this board, you'd be able to follow how the quote system works, I guess not. Here, I'll put the full context of the quote below and bold the relevant parts in order to help you out.

OFWGKTA wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
OFWGKTA wrote:

Gobert isn't a top 10 player though.

And disagree that Gobert is not already a top 15 player. He was 8th in the NBA in RPM for instance. 13th in BPM. 2nd in Win shares. Gobert changes games.

I would be curious to hear someone make a serious argument for Gobert not being top 15 at least. Statistically he has been. And he absolutely changes games at one end.

Oh, and all those takes about how Stevens and Ainge only want three point shooters from their big men need to explain Baynes career numbers (1 for 7).

Jokic was 6th in RPM, 19th in win shares, and 5th in BPM, is he top 10? I don't have the wherewithal to make a top 15 right now, but I wouldn't take Gobert over 15 other guys to start a franchise.

Baynes is a 15mpg guy that makes 4 mil, enough said.

That should make it easy for you, you're welcome.

Rapcity_11 · Post #66 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Not sure I can think of a more perfect C to pair with Kyrie (and Hayward). But Ainge wouldn't be interested? LOLOL

Post #67 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:49 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Ok I'll bite, what top 10 player has been dealt? The only one I see is Jimmy Butler, who is fringe top 10 at best.

A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

I don't have PG a top 10 player -- he needs to do a lot more on defense -- but I also don't have him barely top 10. He's been an all star last 4 seasons he has played, he's very safely top 10.

Post #68 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:56 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

I don't have PG a top 10 player -- he needs to do a lot more on defense -- but I also don't have him barely top 10. He's been an all star last 4 seasons he has played, he's very safely top 10.

I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

Post #69 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:56 pm

League ranks in RPM and BPM

RPM:
7 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 76 37.0 4.82 1.80 6.62 17.35
8 Rudy Gobert, C UTAH 81 33.9 0.35 6.02 6.37 15.55
19 DeMarcus Cousins, C NO/SAC 72 34.2 3.56 0.64 4.20 11.26
37 Paul George, SF IND 75 35.9 2.67 -0.09 2.58 9.72
53 Kyrie Irving, PG CLE 72 35.1 4.35 -2.30 2.05 8.28

BPM:
10 Jimmy Butler 6.9
11 DeMarcus Cousins 6.6
13 Rudy Gobert 5.8
33 Paul George 2.8
40 Kyrie Irving 2.5

Karate Diop · Post #70 » by **Karate Diop** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Djh7475 wrote:Both teams say no. The Celtics value Tatum as the #1 overall pick (regardless of what Utah thinks), so the minor upgrade from Horford to Gobert wouldn't be worth it. I get that Gobert is better defensively and grabs a lot more boards, but he's never going to make the type of offensive impact Horford does. He clogs the lane, slows down the offense, and ensures the opposing rim protectors will always be around the paint.

I also question how effective Gobert would be going up against a Warriors death squad that takes him away from the rack defensively. If he's not protecting the rim, he doesn't provide much value at all. I actually prefer Horford to Gobert (short term) if the Celtics' only goal is to win a title since he is more mobile defensively and keeps the lane clear and creates for others offensively. On the other hand, neither Horford or Tatum are great fits in Utah. Utah already employs Hood, JJ, Ingles, and Favors as wings/combo forwards, and Horford doesn't fit into what should be a long term timeline in Utah.

Horford is incredibly soft. He's routinely overpowered on the boards and will probably transition into a full-time jump-shooting big in the next year or two.

Also... No. Just no. Horford is not more mobile defensively than Gobert.

I'd take Gobert 10 out of 10 times over Horford to defend a pick and roll.

Post #71 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:00 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Ok I'll bite, what top 10 player has been dealt? The only one I see is Jimmy Butler, who is fringe top 10 at best.

A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

Probably not. But would love to hear 10 SFs. Because thats pretty sad.

I get Boston likes its team but a case could be made for any of those 3.

Post #72 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:00 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:League ranks in RPM and BPM

RPM:
7 Jimmy Butler, SG CHI 76 37.0 4.82 1.80 6.62 17.35
8 Rudy Gobert, C UTAH 81 33.9 0.35 6.02 6.37 15.55
19 DeMarcus Cousins, C NO/SAC 72 34.2 3.56 0.64 4.20 11.26
37 Paul George, SF IND 75 35.9 2.67 -0.09 2.58 9.72
53 Kyrie Irving, PG CLE 72 35.1 4.35 -2.30 2.05 8.28

BPM:
10 Jimmy Butler 6.9
11 DeMarcus Cousins 6.6
13 Rudy Gobert 5.8
33 Paul George 2.8
40 Kyrie Irving 2.5

I still don't see anything that allows you to meaningfully declare PG13 better than Kyrie. They're both not top 10 guys and appear marginally different at best.

Post #73 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:03 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

I don't have PG a top 10 player -- he needs to do a lot more on defense -- but I also don't have him barely top 10. He's been an all star last 4 seasons he has played, he's very safely top 10.

I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

Post #74 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:05 pm

bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
I don't have PG a top 10 player -- he needs to do a lot more on defense -- but I also don't have him barely top 10. He's been an all star last 4 seasons he has played, he's very safely top 10.

I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

Really, Dom?

Maybe not top 10 player. But not a top 10 PG is wild.

Post #75 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:05 pm

bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:A case could be had for Butler PG or Cousins. Butler is for sure to me and maybe Cousins.

I was ready to reply but then literally started to laugh.

Because there is literally no argument that PG is a top 10 player. He's barely a top 10 SF.

Probably not. But would love to hear 10 SFs. Because thats pretty sad.

I get Boston likes its team but a case could be made for any of those 3.

LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi, Butler and Hayward are above him. He's 7, with Covington and Crowder close.

Post #76 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Oh and Kyrie has a small advantage in being a second option

Post #77 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:07 pm

bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
I don't have PG a top 10 player -- he needs to do a lot more on defense -- but I also don't have him barely top 10. He's been an all star last 4 seasons he has played, he's very safely top 10.

I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

If you want to argue Kemba above Kyrie due to advanced Metrics, ill reciprocate with Covington and Crowder above PG13. :roll:

Post #78 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:09 pm

Andre Roberstan wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

Really, Dom?

Maybe not top 10 player. But not a top 10 PG is wild.

Curry
Russ
CP3
Wall
Lowry
Lillard
Conley
Harden
IT

Theres 9 with zero doubts. I take Kemba pretty fast too. Theres 10.

mademan · Post #79 » by **mademan** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:10 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

If you want to argue Kemba above Kyrie due to advanced Metrics, ill reciprocate with Covington and Crowder above PG13.

Kyrie/Kemba have similar roles/playing time/usage etc. So you can actually make a direct comparison, as opposed to Crowder-PG

Post #80 » by **bondom34** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:11 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I guess I just don't see any argument that PG13 is meaningfully better than Kyrie, to the point that you take an "Ainge won't trade for top 10 players' dig.

I have LeBron, KD, Giannis, Kawhi and Butler comfortably ahead of PG. Hes probably behind Hayward too, but it's close. PG is not close to being a top 10 overall guy.

I don't have PG top 10 either but hes well ahead of Kyrie and a little over Hayward. Kyrie is barely a top 10 PG alone.

If you want to argue Kemba above Kyrie due to advanced Metrics, ill reciprocate with Covington and Crowder above PG13.

I agree on the SFs other than Hayward.

But I'd use more than a year of data, and Kemba/Kyrie play the same role, Crowder/PG don't.