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rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Explain to me what trade package Cavs would have for Porzingis?
You just had the Knicks accepting BKN 1st and zizic for Zingis. Cavs would take that in a heartbeat
Nope, no -- that wasn't the trade. And Knicks wouldn't say yes to your offer. Sooooo... not sure of confusion.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:Doesn't really work for either team. But this might...
To Cavs: Middleton + Monroe + KOQ + 2018 Bucks 1st
To Bucks: Porzingis + TT + Smith (or Shump)
To Knicks: Nets 2018 1st + Wilson + Zizic
Cavs get out of contracts, while getting Middleton to help LBJ win and stay. But Mids is young enough to be part of a non LBJ era. Monroe is a expiring, ideal if he played more defense for Cavs but oh well.
Bucks pair Giannis and Porzingis. Eating TT and Smith doesn't hurt FA plans, they will be in tax anyway.
Knicks get a top 3 pick, a recent 17th overall, and promising Zizic for Porzingis.
mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:
You just had the Knicks accepting BKN 1st and zizic for Zingis. Cavs would take that in a heartbeat
Nope, no -- that wasn't the trade. And Knicks wouldn't say yes to your offer. Sooooo... not sure of confusion.
Certainly some other small stuff, but the Cavs will easily make that work. Devaluing the pick by attaching it to bad contracts is a terrible move. Get full value for the pick and work on shedding contracts after if need be.
EDIT: whats the difference? lol. Wilson? srs?
ChaosHamster wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Doesn't really work for either team. But this might...
To Cavs: Middleton + Monroe + KOQ + 2018 Bucks 1st
To Bucks: Porzingis + TT + Smith (or Shump)
To Knicks: Nets 2018 1st + Wilson + Zizic
Cavs get out of contracts, while getting Middleton to help LBJ win and stay. But Mids is young enough to be part of a non LBJ era. Monroe is a expiring, ideal if he played more defense for Cavs but oh well.
Bucks pair Giannis and Porzingis. Eating TT and Smith doesn't hurt FA plans, they will be in tax anyway.
Knicks get a top 3 pick, a recent 17th overall, and promising Zizic for Porzingis.
This is the dream trade for the Bucks.
TT is an amazing Center for a player like KP. And I truly don't get why people keep thinking TT contract needs eating.. He is young starting center making less than 20mil per. Like cmon.
edit: And not even mentioning that his is an insulting return for Porzingis.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Nope, no -- that wasn't the trade. And Knicks wouldn't say yes to your offer. Sooooo... not sure of confusion.
Certainly some other small stuff, but the Cavs will easily make that work. Devaluing the pick by attaching it to bad contracts is a terrible move. Get full value for the pick and work on shedding contracts after if need be.
EDIT: whats the difference? lol. Wilson? srs?
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:ChaosHamster wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Doesn't really work for either team. But this might...
To Cavs: Middleton + Monroe + KOQ + 2018 Bucks 1st
To Bucks: Porzingis + TT + Smith (or Shump)
To Knicks: Nets 2018 1st + Wilson + Zizic
Cavs get out of contracts, while getting Middleton to help LBJ win and stay. But Mids is young enough to be part of a non LBJ era. Monroe is a expiring, ideal if he played more defense for Cavs but oh well.
Bucks pair Giannis and Porzingis. Eating TT and Smith doesn't hurt FA plans, they will be in tax anyway.
Knicks get a top 3 pick, a recent 17th overall, and promising Zizic for Porzingis.
This is the dream trade for the Bucks.
TT is an amazing Center for a player like KP. And I truly don't get why people keep thinking TT contract needs eating.. He is young starting center making less than 20mil per. Like cmon.
edit: And not even mentioning that his is an insulting return for Porzingis.
TT is not a albatross contract. But none the less, a big contract (confining). And not a positive asset either. I would say at best, in right situation, he is not negative, maybe even just slightly positive (but in specific situations).
And that by no means is an insulting offer for Porzingis, I can get the view point you think more is needed, but not insulting. A top 3 pick, recent 17th pick, promising Euro, and a future 15-25 is a hell of a haul.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor
ChaosHamster wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:ChaosHamster wrote:
This is the dream trade for the Bucks.
TT is an amazing Center for a player like KP. And I truly don't get why people keep thinking TT contract needs eating.. He is young starting center making less than 20mil per. Like cmon.
edit: And not even mentioning that his is an insulting return for Porzingis.
TT is not a albatross contract. But none the less, a big contract (confining). And not a positive asset either. I would say at best, in right situation, he is not negative, maybe even just slightly positive (but in specific situations).
And that by no means is an insulting offer for Porzingis, I can get the view point you think more is needed, but not insulting. A top 3 pick, recent 17th pick, promising Euro, and a future 15-25 is a hell of a haul.
Why are you blatanlty making stuff up?
First, that pick by no means is a lock to be in top3. There will be a lot of garbage teams next year.
And second. Whos that future first you are talking about? In your post Knicks are getting just the Nets pick, Wilson and Zizic. And that's for KP and KOQ..
rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Nope, no -- that wasn't the trade. And Knicks wouldn't say yes to your offer. Sooooo... not sure of confusion.
Certainly some other small stuff, but the Cavs will easily make that work. Devaluing the pick by attaching it to bad contracts is a terrible move. Get full value for the pick and work on shedding contracts after if need be.
EDIT: whats the difference? lol. Wilson? srs?
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
Swoosh_Stripes wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:
Certainly some other small stuff, but the Cavs will easily make that work. Devaluing the pick by attaching it to bad contracts is a terrible move. Get full value for the pick and work on shedding contracts after if need be.
EDIT: whats the difference? lol. Wilson? srs?
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
You say a team gutting itself in regards to the Bucks, but I do not see how they are gutting themselves when they are keeping Parker, Brogdan, and Maker to go along with Giannis, KP, and Snell that's a young team capable of being a top 4 seed in the Eastern Conference. A pick in the 20s and Wilson does not come close to moving the needle for the Knicks and likely ends up with the Knicks cutting the Bucks out.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
You have a staggerignly high opinion of Wilson+1st if you think the Cavs would have to include Love to match it. It's almost lol worthy. If the package you have the Knicks recieving is a 100, 90 of that is coming from the BKN pick. The Cavs are doing the heavy lifting to get the 2nd best player in the trade
rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:
Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
You have a staggerignly high opinion of Wilson+1st if you think the Cavs would have to include Love to match it. It's almost lol worthy. If the package you have the Knicks recieving is a 100, 90 of that is coming from the BKN pick. The Cavs are doing the heavy lifting to get the 2nd best player in the trade
I said Cavs would have to include Love to MATCH Bucks package??? Really, where? Fake news...
I said Cavs would have to include Love + Nets 1st to cut Bucks out -- because Love is the only other value they have and could trade. Doesn't mean Knicks or 3rd team in a 3 teamer wouldn't be adding value (cause I think Love + Nets 1st is too much for Porzingis if you want to know my true POV).
A trade is the sum of its parts. And in this 3 teamer you don't think Middleton + some level of "dumping" 2 big contracts + KOQ is worth Nets 1st + Zizic? I do. And you don't think Knicks getting a package of Nets 1st + Wilson + Bucks 1st + Zizic is enough for Porzinigs? Cause I do.
mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:
You have a staggerignly high opinion of Wilson+1st if you think the Cavs would have to include Love to match it. It's almost lol worthy. If the package you have the Knicks recieving is a 100, 90 of that is coming from the BKN pick. The Cavs are doing the heavy lifting to get the 2nd best player in the trade
I said Cavs would have to include Love to MATCH Bucks package??? Really, where? Fake news...
I said Cavs would have to include Love + Nets 1st to cut Bucks out -- because Love is the only other value they have and could trade. Doesn't mean Knicks or 3rd team in a 3 teamer wouldn't be adding value (cause I think Love + Nets 1st is too much for Porzingis if you want to know my true POV).
A trade is the sum of its parts. And in this 3 teamer you don't think Middleton + some level of "dumping" 2 big contracts + KOQ is worth Nets 1st + Zizic? I do. And you don't think Knicks getting a package of Nets 1st + Wilson + Bucks 1st + Zizic is enough for Porzinigs? Cause I do.
Crowder>>>>>>>>>Wilson+1st.
mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:
You have a staggerignly high opinion of Wilson+1st if you think the Cavs would have to include Love to match it. It's almost lol worthy. If the package you have the Knicks recieving is a 100, 90 of that is coming from the BKN pick. The Cavs are doing the heavy lifting to get the 2nd best player in the trade
I said Cavs would have to include Love to MATCH Bucks package??? Really, where? Fake news...
I said Cavs would have to include Love + Nets 1st to cut Bucks out -- because Love is the only other value they have and could trade. Doesn't mean Knicks or 3rd team in a 3 teamer wouldn't be adding value (cause I think Love + Nets 1st is too much for Porzingis if you want to know my true POV).
A trade is the sum of its parts. And in this 3 teamer you don't think Middleton + some level of "dumping" 2 big contracts + KOQ is worth Nets 1st + Zizic? I do. And you don't think Knicks getting a package of Nets 1st + Wilson + Bucks 1st + Zizic is enough for Porzinigs? Cause I do.
Crowder>>>>>>>>>Wilson+1st. If the Knicks would take it (which they wouldnt), this offer is better than Wilson+1st. If all they wanted were picks, plenty of teams would put out a mediocre prospect+mediocre pick for Crowder.
Listen, no team is gonna put out the most value only to get the 2nd best player.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:Swoosh_Stripes wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Actually quite a bit of difference -- not sure what you are not seeing. Willson is recent 17th overall. 2018 1st unprotected/lightly protected from Bucks -- a team gutting itself for 22yo Porzingis as promising as he is -- will probably be 15-25 at worst. Cavs can NOT offer a 2017 17th overall (or anything near it) and they can only offer a 2018 swap (with their pick being 28+ so nothing there), 2019 is owed to Hawks...so next pick they can offer is 2021.
If you would have said Love + Nets 1st, you would have made some sense. But a Cavs move like that would signal bye-bye LBJ -- even as promising as Porzingis is.
You say a team gutting itself in regards to the Bucks, but I do not see how they are gutting themselves when they are keeping Parker, Brogdan, and Maker to go along with Giannis, KP, and Snell that's a young team capable of being a top 4 seed in the Eastern Conference. A pick in the 20s and Wilson does not come close to moving the needle for the Knicks and likely ends up with the Knicks cutting the Bucks out.
Parker is coming back from injury, and oh by the way, the teams 2 best players play his positions SF & PF (in this hypothetical). Bucks would be playing him off the bench to showcase him (recovered) for trade before deadline, use his non extended rookie contract, to get themselves more wing help. Even with Parker (injury), team would showcase bunch of new players gelling, with 2 best players being 22/23 -- not sure there ever has been a sure-thing-juggernaut with all of those variables.
Again, unless Love is available from Cavs (to go along with Nets 1st), Bucks can't be cut out. If Nets 1st+Wilson+Zizic+Bucks 1st isn't enough, I get that back and forth discussion -- but I think that value for Porzingis is spot on or real damn close.
Swoosh_Stripes wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Swoosh_Stripes wrote:
You say a team gutting itself in regards to the Bucks, but I do not see how they are gutting themselves when they are keeping Parker, Brogdan, and Maker to go along with Giannis, KP, and Snell that's a young team capable of being a top 4 seed in the Eastern Conference. A pick in the 20s and Wilson does not come close to moving the needle for the Knicks and likely ends up with the Knicks cutting the Bucks out.
Parker is coming back from injury, and oh by the way, the teams 2 best players play his positions SF & PF (in this hypothetical). Bucks would be playing him off the bench to showcase him (recovered) for trade before deadline, use his non extended rookie contract, to get themselves more wing help. Even with Parker (injury), team would showcase bunch of new players gelling, with 2 best players being 22/23 -- not sure there ever has been a sure-thing-juggernaut with all of those variables.
Again, unless Love is available from Cavs (to go along with Nets 1st), Bucks can't be cut out. If Nets 1st+Wilson+Zizic+Bucks 1st isn't enough, I get that back and forth discussion -- but I think that value for Porzingis is spot on or real damn close.
The Bucks are retaining 4 out of their 5 starters and KP, Giannis and Parker (if healthy) can all play together with KP playing C, that's not a team that's picking in the teens. Wilson and a late first is not significant enough to prevent the Cavs from making up for it, Cedi Osman and/or Jae Crowder more than makes up for Wilson and a late 1st.
rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:I said Cavs would have to include Love to MATCH Bucks package??? Really, where? Fake news...
I said Cavs would have to include Love + Nets 1st to cut Bucks out -- because Love is the only other value they have and could trade. Doesn't mean Knicks or 3rd team in a 3 teamer wouldn't be adding value (cause I think Love + Nets 1st is too much for Porzingis if you want to know my true POV).
A trade is the sum of its parts. And in this 3 teamer you don't think Middleton + some level of "dumping" 2 big contracts + KOQ is worth Nets 1st + Zizic? I do. And you don't think Knicks getting a package of Nets 1st + Wilson + Bucks 1st + Zizic is enough for Porzinigs? Cause I do.
Crowder>>>>>>>>>Wilson+1st.
I don't think so. Value MAY be close, but not >>>>>>>>>>>> come on dude. For a rebuilding team like Knicks, they would prefer a recent 17th, and a future 14-25 1st, vs. a 27yo role player -- even one on that value of a contract.
mademan wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:mademan wrote:
Crowder>>>>>>>>>Wilson+1st.
I don't think so. Value MAY be close, but not >>>>>>>>>>>> come on dude. For a rebuilding team like Knicks, they would prefer a recent 17th, and a future 14-25 1st, vs. a 27yo role player -- even one on that value of a contract.
Absolutely insane. Plenty of teams would give up more than Wilson+1st for Crowder. Hell, the freakin Bucks would fall over themselves to make that trade
rugbyrugger23 wrote:Swoosh_Stripes wrote:rugbyrugger23 wrote:Parker is coming back from injury, and oh by the way, the teams 2 best players play his positions SF & PF (in this hypothetical). Bucks would be playing him off the bench to showcase him (recovered) for trade before deadline, use his non extended rookie contract, to get themselves more wing help. Even with Parker (injury), team would showcase bunch of new players gelling, with 2 best players being 22/23 -- not sure there ever has been a sure-thing-juggernaut with all of those variables.
Again, unless Love is available from Cavs (to go along with Nets 1st), Bucks can't be cut out. If Nets 1st+Wilson+Zizic+Bucks 1st isn't enough, I get that back and forth discussion -- but I think that value for Porzingis is spot on or real damn close.
The Bucks are retaining 4 out of their 5 starters and KP, Giannis and Parker (if healthy) can all play together with KP playing C, that's not a team that's picking in the teens. Wilson and a late first is not significant enough to prevent the Cavs from making up for it, Cedi Osman and/or Jae Crowder more than makes up for Wilson and a late 1st.
Than we will disagree.
Nets 1st + Zizic + Wilson + Bucks 1st > Nets 1st + Zizic + Osman + Crowder for Knicks (rebuilding team). If Cavs can get equal 1st round draft picks from a third team, that is more of a discussion to be had -- and margin is real close their.
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