KOTB: SAC / PHI (This trade DOES amount to a Hill of beans!) (0 Points)

[DocRI]

Couldn't resist making the Casablanca pun; also couldn't resist revisiting a similar theme as my last entry, but using different teams this time.

Obligatory stuff — if you believe all teams would accept this trade, vote yes. If you believe otherwise, vote no. Please explain your vote.

NOTE: Trade executed after 12/15

SAC OUT: George Hill
SAC IN: Amir Johnson, Jerryd Bayless, best of PHI's four 2018 2nd round picks (currently slotted to be BKN's 2018 2nd rounder), pick-swap rights returned for their own 2019 2nd round pick (currently, PHI receives better of SAC 2019 2nd rounder or MIL 2019 2nd rounder)
WHY: In order: 1) They do right by George Hill and send him to a team with playoff aspirations; 2) They hand the keys of the franchise to DeAaron Fox, giving him all the minutes he can handle; 3) They get out of over half of Hill's guaranteed $20M salary for the 2018/19 season; 4) They get an extra high 2nd rounder this year and get the swap rights back on their own 2019 2nd rounder, which will presumably be another high 2nd round pick. There's no "big get" here, but for a rebuilding team like the Kings, lots of little assets / positives add up (and I think they'd honestly need to attach value to dump Hill outright, which is obviously something they should avoid if possible).

PHI OUT: Amir Johnson, Jerryd Bayless, best of PHI's four 2018 2nd round picks (currently slotted to be BKN's 2018 2nd rounder), pick-swap rights returned for SAC 2019 2nd round pick (currently, PHI receives better of SAC 2019 2nd rounder or MIL 2019 2nd rounder)
PHI IN: George Hill
WHY: First and foremost, they solidify their lineup for a playoff run this season. George Hill is the perfect PG for their squad because he can play off the ball and spread the floor on offense while Simmons handles the rock and guard the opposing PG on defense. He also brings all the intangibles a young team like the Sixers need from a veteran PG — leadership, toughness, playoff experience, etc. This also takes significant pressure off rookie Markelle Fultz once he returns from injury, setting Hill up as his two-year mentor (the last year of Hill's contract is only guaranteed for $1M). Most importantly, they push for the playoffs by making a significant upgrade at PG while sacrificing literally nothing of consequence; Johnson's an expiring bench big and they're already overflowing in 2nd round picks for the foreseeable future.

[HornetJail]

I imagine they brought in Hill to mentor their young guards. But aside from that, yeah this is a pretty good deal all around

I'll say yes

[MoneyTalks41890]

I'll say no because iirc Philly is going to need the space in the future that Hill takes up.

[Mamba4Goat]

Uffda...I am torn. On one hand, Hill has underpreformed a bit in Sac and this gets them a pair of higher end 2nds and out of his deal. On the other hand, I think he was brought in to foster a winning environment and mentor the younger players. I'm not sure I'd sell low on him just for that reason. He may be worth keeping around a little longer until he figures it out.

Philly would likely do this though. I can't see the salary being an issue as Hill likely wouldn't be too hard to move and he's a versatile combo guard and could always slide over to the two when Fultz finally comes to life as a pro.

I'm not voting quite yet.

[NuggetsWY]

My goodness; Hill makes sense in Sacramento as a mentor to Fox. But clearing him out throws Fox into the deep end and he just might manage quite well. This trade would be nice for the Kings, other than losing the best player in the trade.

Hill makes sense in Philadelphia but they have Fultz & Simmons - both of whom they seem to want running the team. With Hill there to mentor them, it would make sense and they aren't trading anyone that can't afford to trade. Picks seem to fit.

KOTB yes

[SmokeyPaw]

Kotb yes. I agree that hill should be moveable if necessary after the season. If I'm the kings I'd want to give Fox the reins from what we've seen so far.

[BullyKing]

KOTB no. This trade takes away over $10 million of cap space for next season, which the Sixers are saving to try and add an impact player. That player is not George Hill.

[LightTheBeam]

KOTB no. Kings arent moving Hill for what amounts to garbage expirings and 2nds.

And as Philly fans said they want the cap space for next season.

Edit: didnt realize Bayless is signed through next year. HUGE no for Sacramento. Hes not a winning player. We don't need chuckers influencing the guards. Ramon Sessions 2.0

[HartfordWhalers]

KOTB no. Kings arent moving Hill for what amounts to garbage expirings and 2nds.

And as Philly fans said they want the cap space for next season.

Edit: didnt realize Bayless is signed through next year. HUGE no for Sacramento. Hes not a winning player. We don't need chuckers influencing the guards. Ramon Sessions 2.0

Bayless is not a chucker. His usage was 16.4% last full season he played. He is a role playing shooter who averaged under 15 shots per 100 possessions last full season.

To put that in comparison, his numbers from his last full season would have had him 11th on the Kings this season in shots per possession, taking less shots than even such prolific shooters such as WCS and Jakarr Sampson.

That complaint is just illogical.

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh, and Hill is getting paid 19m next season, while looking worse than an MLE pg. It is a big bad contract unless he turns it around and fast, and definitely not something that Philly should be doing even without the picks.

KOTB no.

[LightTheBeam]

KOTB no. Kings arent moving Hill for what amounts to garbage expirings and 2nds.

And as Philly fans said they want the cap space for next season.

Edit: didnt realize Bayless is signed through next year. HUGE no for Sacramento. Hes not a winning player. We don't need chuckers influencing the guards. Ramon Sessions 2.0

Bayless is not a chucker. His usage was 16.4% last full season he played. He is a role playing shooter who averaged under 15 shots per 100 possessions last full season.

To put that in comparison, his numbers from his last full season would have had him 11th on the Kings this season in shots per possession, taking less shots than even such prolific shooters such as WCS and Jakarr Sampson.

That complaint is just illogical.

When you are taking 7-8-9 shots per game in 20 minutes while shooting 41% from the field. That isn't something I want on my team.

For instance most people consider JR Smith and Nick Young chuckers. These guys all have similar usage. Chucker doesn't mean you shoot 20 times a game or have a 35% usage. I take it as you take bad shots. Ill admit I haven't much watched Bayless since hes been in Philly but I certainly wasn't impressed with him in previous years.

His career usage is actually 20-21 so using that 16 number (his lowest ever) is a little disingenuous wouldnt you think?

I just get the feeling with a player like him similar to Sessions. If he comes to a bad team he feels he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants.

[HartfordWhalers]

KOTB no. Kings arent moving Hill for what amounts to garbage expirings and 2nds.

And as Philly fans said they want the cap space for next season.

Edit: didnt realize Bayless is signed through next year. HUGE no for Sacramento. Hes not a winning player. We don't need chuckers influencing the guards. Ramon Sessions 2.0

Bayless is not a chucker. His usage was 16.4% last full season he played. He is a role playing shooter who averaged under 15 shots per 100 possessions last full season.

To put that in comparison, his numbers from his last full season would have had him 11th on the Kings this season in shots per possession, taking less shots than even such prolific shooters such as WCS and Jakarr Sampson.

That complaint is just illogical.

When you are taking 7-8-9 shots per game in 20 minutes while shooting 41% from the field. That isn't something I want on my team.

For instance most people consider JR Smith and Nick Young chuckers. These guys all have similar usage. Chucker doesn't mean you shoot 20 times a game or have a 35% usage. I take it as you take bad shots. Ill admit I haven't much watched Bayless since hes been in Philly but I certainly wasn't impressed with him in previous years.

His career usage is actually 20-21 so using that 16 number (his lowest ever) is a little disingenuous wouldnt you think?

I just get the feeling with a player like him similar to Sessions. If he comes to a bad team he feels he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants.

I think using the number that reflects what a player has been doing is the thing to do.

JR Smith hasn't been chucking. If people haven't caught on between the difference of when he was shooting 25 shots per 100 possessions down to 13 now, they have missed what has been a big change.
If people are saying Bayless is a chucker, they are being ignorant to what he has been. It is just an incredibly inaccurate complaint.

As a side note, anyone using FG% instead of TS% or at least efg% is also being exceptionally dated and doing a disservice to the level of the conversation.

If a player shoots 41% and only takes 3's they are a good shooter.
If a player shoots 41% and only takes 2's they are a bad shooter.

Saying a guy shoots 41% doesn't tell which it is -- or where in between. Frankly, this form should be better than that.

[LightTheBeam]

Bayless is not a chucker. His usage was 16.4% last full season he played. He is a role playing shooter who averaged under 15 shots per 100 possessions last full season.

To put that in comparison, his numbers from his last full season would have had him 11th on the Kings this season in shots per possession, taking less shots than even such prolific shooters such as WCS and Jakarr Sampson.

That complaint is just illogical.

When you are taking 7-8-9 shots per game in 20 minutes while shooting 41% from the field. That isn't something I want on my team.

For instance most people consider JR Smith and Nick Young chuckers. These guys all have similar usage. Chucker doesn't mean you shoot 20 times a game or have a 35% usage. I take it as you take bad shots. Ill admit I haven't much watched Bayless since hes been in Philly but I certainly wasn't impressed with him in previous years.

His career usage is actually 20-21 so using that 16 number (his lowest ever) is a little disingenuous wouldnt you think?

I just get the feeling with a player like him similar to Sessions. If he comes to a bad team he feels he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants.

I think using the number that reflects what a player has been doing is the thing to do.

JR Smith hasn't been chucking. If people haven't caught on between the difference of when he was shooting 25 shots per 100 possessions down to 13 now, they have missed what has been a big change.
If people are saying Bayless is a chucker, they are being ignorant to what he has been. It is just an incredibly inaccurate complaint.

As a side note, anyone using FG% instead of TS% or at least efg% is also being exceptionally dated and doing a disservice to the level of the conversation.

If a player shoots 41% and only takes 3's they are a good shooter.
If a player shoots 41% and only takes 2's they are a bad shooter.

Saying a guy shoots 41% doesn't tell which it is -- or where in between. Frankly, this form should be better than that.

Lol. I love how suddenly FG% means absolutely nothing.

Okay man...

Bayless TS% .525

Hill TS% .566
Collison TS% .562
Danny Green TS% .565

Nick Young TS% .535
Lou williams TS% .552

No matter how you want to look at this, hes not efficient. Hes not a good defender. He not an above replacement player level. He doesn't have a positive box score. He has a PER well below league average. He shoots more than I would ever want a player of his caliber to shoot. Now if that doesn't fit you description of a chucker sure, but talking to people like you are better than them is just unnecessary.

Clearly we have different definitions. You think a chucker is someone who shoots 25 shots per 100 possessions. I think its a bad player who shoots non-open shots a ton more than he should.

[HartfordWhalers]

When you are taking 7-8-9 shots per game in 20 minutes while shooting 41% from the field. That isn't something I want on my team.

For instance most people consider JR Smith and Nick Young chuckers. These guys all have similar usage. Chucker doesn't mean you shoot 20 times a game or have a 35% usage. I take it as you take bad shots. Ill admit I haven't much watched Bayless since hes been in Philly but I certainly wasn't impressed with him in previous years.

His career usage is actually 20-21 so using that 16 number (his lowest ever) is a little disingenuous wouldnt you think?

I just get the feeling with a player like him similar to Sessions. If he comes to a bad team he feels he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants.

I think using the number that reflects what a player has been doing is the thing to do.

JR Smith hasn't been chucking. If people haven't caught on between the difference of when he was shooting 25 shots per 100 possessions down to 13 now, they have missed what has been a big change.
If people are saying Bayless is a chucker, they are being ignorant to what he has been. It is just an incredibly inaccurate complaint.

As a side note, anyone using FG% instead of TS% or at least efg% is also being exceptionally dated and doing a disservice to the level of the conversation.

If a player shoots 41% and only takes 3's they are a good shooter.
If a player shoots 41% and only takes 2's they are a bad shooter.

Saying a guy shoots 41% doesn't tell which it is -- or where in between. Frankly, this form should be better than that.

Lol. I love how suddenly FG% means absolutely nothing. I don't think talking to a member of the forum like that is acceptable either but apparently it is.

Okay man...

Bayless TS% .525

Hill TS% .566
Collison TS% .562
Danny Green TS% .565

Nick Young TS% .535
Lou williams TS% .552

No matter how you want to look at this, hes not efficient. Hes not a good defender. He not an above replacement player level. He doesn't have a positive box score. He has a PER well below league average. He shoots more than I would ever want a player of his caliber to shoot. Now if that doesn't fit you description of a chucker sure, but talking to people like you are better than them is just unnecessary.

Oh, Bayless cannot defend a paper bag. That is a legitimate complaint about him. But you have to go back a full 7 seasons to fund a high usage Bayless that might approach a chucker.

As for I love how FG% means absolutely nothing suddenly, it sure as hell has not been sudden. The fact that fg% is dated and nowhere near as informative as other metrics for shooting efficiency has been around for a long time at this point. I hope you aren't watching Hield saying he is just a 42% shooter and ignoring that almost half of his shots have been 3's.

[jbk1234]

Ask me before the season, and I say get it done no questions asked from Philly's perspective. But now it's a no. George Hill is playing his way into un-tradeable.

[HartfordWhalers]

I have that as a 5th no then:
MoneyTalks41890
BullyKing
RipPizzaGuy
HFW
jbk