Utah - Minnesota

[getrichordie]

I might consider flipping Udoh plus to another team for an upgrade at back up center or on the wing.

A solid backup wing is probably a bigger need long-term for Minnesota so I might take a shot on a prospect or project player. Maybe a Rashad Vaughn. He’s stuck behind some good wings in MKE and I like him as a diamond in the rough player who will get his shot eventually and play well. It wouldn’t hurt to add the defensive Udoh to MKE’s front-court rotation, either.

By the way, MKE guys, on Spotrac it shows Vaughn’s option was exercised for the 2018 season but says he’s a UFA in 2018? I’m confused. So is he under contract through the 2018-19 season or not?




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[shrink]

It sees awfully strange to me that in a multi-player deal like this, you have decided that the 2015 OKC pick was the exact piece that was needed to move Kendrick Perkins salary, and that you would use that as a baseline for the price of moving salaries, with a better pick, two years later!

Since you didn't mention receiving Kantor or any of the other players in the deal, here is the whole trade

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/jazz-acquire-three-players-and-two-future-draft-picks-three-team-trade

[bondom34]

I know the trade. Kanter and Jackson essentially offset. Pleiss was nothing.

[TheDominator273]

Pass on this one for the Wolves. Udoh would get no minutes and while Thabo would be nice wing depth he's not worth the OKC pick

[HartfordWhalers]

Dont think its too far off but I have Aldrich and a late first as neutral value and Utah is sending useful players. Of need a little more if I were them.

Does it really take a first to move Aldrich? He's not a long term contract...

It usually takes a late first for a 10 mil expiring of a relatively useless player, so that's my guess. It took OKC that to move Perkins last year and Aldrich is owed about as much and barely leaves the bench.

What?

Perkins trade was for Kanter. And was more than a year ago.

You dump 6m expiring with 2nd and cash right now. No way Aldrich costs a 1st to dump.

[getrichordie]

Maybe...

MIN sends: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd
MIN gets: Thabo Sefolosha, Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd

UTA sends: Thabo Sefolosha, Ekpe Udoh
UTA gets: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd

MIL sends: Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd
MIL gets: Ekpe Udoh

[HartfordWhalers]

And gave up Reggie Jackson and more...

Jackson got a 2nd and Singler and Augustin.

The Utah and Det portions were really separate.

[wolves_89]

I could see a trade built around Aldrich for Sefolosha, but there is no way the Wolves would give up a 1st round pick in the deal.

[babyjax13]

I could see a trade built around Aldrich for Sefolosha, but there is no way the Wolves would give up a 1st round pick in the deal.

I'd say we are probably too thin at small forward for that to be worth it. The OP feels tilted in our favor, I'd definitely include our second which is likely to be fairly high...but if I were Minnesota I wouldn't be in a huge hurry to add veteran talent.

[babyjax13]

Maybe...

MIN sends: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd
MIN gets: Thabo Sefolosha, Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd

UTA sends: Thabo Sefolosha, Ekpe Udoh
UTA gets: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd

MIL sends: Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd
MIL gets: Ekpe Udoh

In that case I'd cut Minnesota out and just do the Milwaukee part.

[bondom34]

Does it really take a first to move Aldrich? He's not a long term contract...

It usually takes a late first for a 10 mil expiring of a relatively useless player, so that's my guess. It took OKC that to move Perkins last year and Aldrich is owed about as much and barely leaves the bench.

What?

Perkins trade was for Kanter. And was more than a year ago.

You dump 6m expiring with 2nd and cash right now. No way Aldrich costs a 1st to dump.

So Jackson was for nothing? Because they got back Augustin who was essentially nothing otherwise.

[getrichordie]

Maybe...

MIN sends: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd
MIN gets: Thabo Sefolosha, Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd

UTA sends: Thabo Sefolosha, Ekpe Udoh
UTA gets: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd

MIL sends: Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd
MIL gets: Ekpe Udoh

In that case I'd cut Minnesota out and just do the Milwaukee part.

Do you think MKE would be interested in Udoh at that price?

[babyjax13]

Maybe...

MIN sends: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd
MIN gets: Thabo Sefolosha, Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd

UTA sends: Thabo Sefolosha, Ekpe Udoh
UTA gets: Cole Aldrich, 2019 MIA 2nd, 2020 MIN 2nd

MIL sends: Rashad Vaughn, 2020 WAS 2nd
MIL gets: Ekpe Udoh

In that case I'd cut Minnesota out and just do the Milwaukee part.

Do you think MKE would be interested in Udoh at that price?

If I were them I would be. Udoh is an excellent backup (better than Henson, probably more impactful than Maker is right now). It depends on how they feel about Vaughn, I guess. Maybe Jerebko would be more interesting to them.

[HartfordWhalers]

It usually takes a late first for a 10 mil expiring of a relatively useless player, so that's my guess. It took OKC that to move Perkins last year and Aldrich is owed about as much and barely leaves the bench.

What?

Perkins trade was for Kanter. And was more than a year ago.

You dump 6m expiring with 2nd and cash right now. No way Aldrich costs a 1st to dump.

So Jackson was for nothing? Because they got back Augustin who was essentially nothing otherwise.

Here was the trade:

OKC out to Det: Jackson
OKC in from Det: D.J. Augustin, Kyle Singler, Det 2017 2nd (#42)

OKC out to Utah: Det 2017 2nd (#42), Grant Jerrett, Kendrick Perkins, Tibor Pleiss, 2017 1st
OKC in from Utah: Kanter ad Novak

The Detroit 2nd was passed on to Utah, but that was all Jackson was traded for. Trading Jackson did not add any to the ability to do the Utah part in terms of salary matching.

Haven't we gone over this a lot?

[bondom34]

What?

Perkins trade was for Kanter. And was more than a year ago.

You dump 6m expiring with 2nd and cash right now. No way Aldrich costs a 1st to dump.

So Jackson was for nothing? Because they got back Augustin who was essentially nothing otherwise.

Here was the trade:

OKC out to Det: Jackson
OKC in from Det: D.J. Augustin, Kyle Singler, Det 2017 2nd (#42)

OKC out to Utah: Det 2017 2nd (#42), Grant Jerrett, Kendrick Perkins, Tibor Pleiss, 2017 1st
OKC in from Utah: Kanter ad Novak

The Detroit 2nd was passed on to Utah, but that was all Jackson was traded for. Trading Jackson did not add any to the ability to do the Utah part in terms of salary matching.

Haven't we gone over this a lot?

Yes but I'm talking strictly by overall value. OKC gave up Jackson for Kanter. After that it was Perk and a first plus extras for Augustin and Singler.

Augustin and Singler then were probably close to this package so I'd haggle for the minor extras.

Edit. Also most seem to think it takes a first to dump Singler who's owed about the same.

[HartfordWhalers]

So Jackson was for nothing? Because they got back Augustin who was essentially nothing otherwise.

Here was the trade:

OKC out to Det: Jackson
OKC in from Det: D.J. Augustin, Kyle Singler, Det 2017 2nd (#42)

OKC out to Utah: Det 2017 2nd (#42), Grant Jerrett, Kendrick Perkins, Tibor Pleiss, 2017 1st
OKC in from Utah: Kanter ad Novak

The Detroit 2nd was passed on to Utah, but that was all Jackson was traded for. Trading Jackson did not add any to the ability to do the Utah part in terms of salary matching.

Haven't we gone over this a lot?

Yes but I'm talking strictly by overall value. OKC gave up Jackson for Kanter. After that it was Perk and a first plus extras for Augustin and Singler.

Augustin and Singler then were probably close to this package so I'd haggle for the minor extras.

No. Just not listening repeatedly and still saying it doesn't actually make it true.


The only **** connection between OKC getting Kanter and OKC giving up Jackson was a single mid 2nd from Detroit that OKC sent to Utah.

OKC gave up Jackson for a 2nd (and Singler and Augustin). Not for Kanter. They could have done the Utah trade without tradng Jackson, and used one of their mid 2nds.

[bondom34]

Here was the trade:

OKC out to Det: Jackson
OKC in from Det: D.J. Augustin, Kyle Singler, Det 2017 2nd (#42)

OKC out to Utah: Det 2017 2nd (#42), Grant Jerrett, Kendrick Perkins, Tibor Pleiss, 2017 1st
OKC in from Utah: Kanter ad Novak

The Detroit 2nd was passed on to Utah, but that was all Jackson was traded for. Trading Jackson did not add any to the ability to do the Utah part in terms of salary matching.

Haven't we gone over this a lot?

Yes but I'm talking strictly by overall value. OKC gave up Jackson for Kanter. After that it was Perk and a first plus extras for Augustin and Singler.

Augustin and Singler then were probably close to this package so I'd haggle for the minor extras.

No. Just not listening repeatedly and still saying it doesn't actually make it true.


The only **** connection between OKC getting Kanter and OKC giving up Jackson was a single mid 2nd from Detroit that OKC sent to Utah.

OKC gave up Jackson for a 2nd (and Singler and Augustin). Not for Kanter. They could have done the Utah trade without tradng Jackson, and used one of their mid 2nds.

Financially sure, but value wise it wasn't there. I know we've been over the stupid thing.

[HartfordWhalers]

Yes but I'm talking strictly by overall value. OKC gave up Jackson for Kanter. After that it was Perk and a first plus extras for Augustin and Singler.

Augustin and Singler then were probably close to this package so I'd haggle for the minor extras.

No. Just not listening repeatedly and still saying it doesn't actually make it true.


The only **** connection between OKC getting Kanter and OKC giving up Jackson was a single mid 2nd from Detroit that OKC sent to Utah.

OKC gave up Jackson for a 2nd (and Singler and Augustin). Not for Kanter. They could have done the Utah trade without tradng Jackson, and used one of their mid 2nds.

Financially sure, but value wise it wasn't there. I know we've been over the stupid thing.

The only value they gained to send to Utah was that 2nd.

They traded Jackson for a 2nd because of his locker room issues. They absolutely did not send him away in any way because they needed to for Kanter. Not financially. And not asset wise.

[bondom34]

No. Just not listening repeatedly and still saying it doesn't actually make it true.


The only **** connection between OKC getting Kanter and OKC giving up Jackson was a single mid 2nd from Detroit that OKC sent to Utah.

OKC gave up Jackson for a 2nd (and Singler and Augustin). Not for Kanter. They could have done the Utah trade without tradng Jackson, and used one of their mid 2nds.

Financially sure, but value wise it wasn't there. I know we've been over the stupid thing.

The only value they gained to send to Utah was that 2nd.

They traded Jackson for a 2nd because of his locker room issues. They absolutely did not send him away in any way because they needed to for Kanter. Not financially. And not asset wise.

So Utah traded Kanter for nothing by that means as well. Because at this point that's what the trade comes down to. I know they could have done it financially, and never disagreed. It was a three team trade, and all the teams had value in/out.

[HartfordWhalers]

Financially sure, but value wise it wasn't there. I know we've been over the stupid thing.

The only value they gained to send to Utah was that 2nd.

They traded Jackson for a 2nd because of his locker room issues. They absolutely did not send him away in any way because they needed to for Kanter. Not financially. And not asset wise.

So Utah traded Kanter for nothing by that means as well. Because at this point that's what the trade comes down to. I know they could have done it financially, and never disagreed. It was a three team trade, and all the teams had value in/out.

No.

OKC out to Utah: Det 2017 2nd (#42), Grant Jerrett, Kendrick Perkins, Tibor Pleiss, 2017 1st
OKC in from Utah: Kanter ad Novak

You are looking at this and deciding:
Jackson = Kanter.
We have Jackson = 2nd
Thus Kanter = 2nd.

But that only follows if your first assumption, Kanter = Jackson is true, and there was no reason for that to be true.


We had:
Jackson = #2 (at #42), Augustin, SIngler

And We had:
Kanter = 1st + 2nd(at #42) + rights to Pleiss and {Perkins + Jerrett - Novak}


What was the value of Perkins + Jerett - Novak? There isn't a clean cut trade so that cannot be answered definitively.

I would argue that:
$3,445,946 / $3,750,000 for 9,654,342 + 2nd was about fair, so the #42 equalized the Novak/Perkins swap. But others can have different values there.

There is no tie between trading for Kanter and the 2nd they got for Jackson except that mid 2nd however.