Nets - Trailblazers

[JasonStern]

deal makes sense for both teams if Portland adds cash considerations and the Nets send out a 2nd round pick projected later in the draft. Portland buys a pick and gets out of the luxury tax. Brooklyn gets some financial compensation for helping out and takes a flyer on Vonleh. worst case, Brooklyn spends $0 on a Vonleh rental and release his RFA rights this offseason.

[letsgobulls23]

Agreed with the Nets fan here. I think the value is fair but there is no reason for Brooklyn to give up 2nd for a guy they a). don't necessarily need, b). can get in FA in a few months. Nets pass

[Soulyss]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

[Myth]

Of course Portland fans like it. They duck the luxury tax and get a high 2nd for a player whos a FA and basically has no value.

If anything, they should be paying us to help them out not the other way around.

No chance the Nets do this deal. They can just sign him in the off season and keep the 2nd. Portland won’t be resigning him anyway.

Vonleh is a 6-10, 240 lb, power forward. He is only 22 years old and has played over 3000 minutes in the NBA, averaging almost 10 pts and more than 10 rebounds per 36 minutes. Why does he have no value? Especially for a team like Brooklyn that has few options for power-forward.

By acquiring him, you can make a (cheap) qualifying offer and gain right of first refusal. He's a restricted free agent.

He has almost no value cause you can sign him for half of the MLE or less in a couple of months and portland won’t match because they have to go into the luxury tax to re-sign Nurkic.

His RFA rights mean nothing. No one loses any sleep cause they couldn’t match a contract for Noah Vonleh.

Make it a top 55 protected 2nd and we’ll take him but there’s absolutely no reason to give up a high 2nd rounder.

Blazers may actually be willing to sign him if he is cheap. Not only are they willing to go into luxury tax, they fully expect to next season. Trading Noah this season to avoid the repeater tax makes a lot of sense, but if he is on the team going into free agency, then that means we traded somebody else to avoid the repeater tax or we are already in it. Essentially, this means that to sign him away from Portland, you may need to overpay. If a team trades for him and has the rights to him, then they only have to overpay to keep him if a 3rd team steps in and offers to overpay for him. Now if you don't want him at all, that is fine, but the idea that Portland would be unwilling to re-sign him if he is cheap is false.

[pacers33granger]

I like it for both sides. And for those saying "we can just sign Vonleh in the offseason," yeah you can be sure Portland won't match any offer and likely won't even offer him the QO, but Vonleh has a say in it all too. Unless of course you trade for his RFA rights.

[gom]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Vonleh is a 6-10, 240 lb, power forward. He is only 22 years old and has played over 3000 minutes in the NBA, averaging almost 10 pts and more than 10 rebounds per 36 minutes. Why does he have no value? Especially for a team like Brooklyn that has few options for power-forward.

By acquiring him, you can make a (cheap) qualifying offer and gain right of first refusal. He's a restricted free agent.

He has almost no value cause you can sign him for half of the MLE or less in a couple of months and portland won’t match because they have to go into the luxury tax to re-sign Nurkic.

His RFA rights mean nothing. No one loses any sleep cause they couldn’t match a contract for Noah Vonleh.

Make it a top 55 protected 2nd and we’ll take him but there’s absolutely no reason to give up a high 2nd rounder.

Blazers may actually be willing to sign him if he is cheap. Not only are they willing to go into luxury tax, they fully expect to next season. Trading Noah this season to avoid the repeater tax makes a lot of sense, but if he is on the team going into free agency, then that means we traded somebody else to avoid the repeater tax or we are already in it. Essentially, this means that to sign him away from Portland, you may need to overpay. If a team trades for him and has the rights to him, then they only have to overpay to keep him if a 3rd team steps in and offers to overpay for him. Now if you don't want him at all, that is fine, but the idea that Portland would be unwilling to re-sign him if he is cheap is false.

I doubt we would need to overpay. Even a 4 mill deal will make a luxury tax team think twice if it’s for their 3rd string PF/C.

But like I said, no one is losing any sleep over missing out on Noah Vonleh. He’s been incredibly disappointing throughout his career.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

I could imagine another team doing this deal with a lower 2nd rounder, if they for some reason really needed a back up PF and didn’t have cap space to sign him in the summer. But it doesn’t make sense for the Nets to give up assets for a back up PF.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

You gave way too high a pick. I think the suggestion to add cash from Portland's side and do a little bit later pick (less favorable of NYK or IND?) was a very good tweak.

If there is no pick my preference would be in moving Davis though.

[gom]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

I could imagine another team doing this deal with a lower 2nd rounder, if they for some reason really needed a back up PF and didn’t have cap space to sign him in the summer. But it doesn’t make sense for the Nets to give up assets for a back up PF.

Probably I don't value draft picks as highly as you do, especially second-round picks. I would only expect to get a bench player for a second-round pick, even a high one. While there are exceptions, statistically, it is unusual that a second-round player is a big contributor. The odds are that the second-round pick you draft would be inferior to Noah Vonleh are pretty high.

[jbk1234]

I think the point is that the Blazers aren't really in a position to insist on the pick when 1) They don't intend on bringing Vonleh back; and 2) there's no point in retaining him if doing so puts you into the luxury tax. If the Nets will just take him, they should ship him out.

[gom]

This trade feels about right... Nice trade OP.

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

You gave way too high a pick. I think the suggestion to add cash from Portland's side and do a little bit later pick (less favorable of NYK or IND?) was a very good tweak.

If there is no pick my preference would be in moving Davis though.

I'd rather have Noah Vonleh than Ed Davis, even though I like both players.

I agree with the modification of Portland adding cash, but I doubt if that moves the needle. Brooklyn fans don't seem to like Vonleh. I think he's a pretty decent player myself, who may one day be even better. Certainly, he's worth a second-round pick.

I think the point is that the Blazers aren't really in a position to insist on the pick when 1) They don't intend on bringing Vonleh back; and 2) there's no point in retaining him if doing so puts you into the luxury tax. If the Nets will just take him, they should ship him out.

Fair enough, jbk. I saw him as an asset for the Nets, a better asset than they are likely to draft. I guess I'm wrong.



2014 draft, players with more than 3 WS, sorted by ws/48. Vonleh looks pretty good, smack in the middle. His VORP is worst though at -1.6.

Sorted by VORP:




2014 draft:

80%: First round (top 5): 4 (all but Dante Exum)
89%: First round (rest of lottery): 8 of 9 (all but Stauskas)
40%: Rest of First round: 6 of 15
23%: Second round picks (7 of 30)

35 players don't have 3 WS after almost 3 seasons.

Only 10 of the 25 players are on the teams that drafted them, although 3 players changed teams the day of the draft and remain on their new teams: Dario Saric, Gary Harris, & Elfrid Payton.

[jbk1234]

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

You gave way too high a pick. I think the suggestion to add cash from Portland's side and do a little bit later pick (less favorable of NYK or IND?) was a very good tweak.

If there is no pick my preference would be in moving Davis though.

I'd rather have Noah Vonleh than Ed Davis, even though I like both players.

I agree with the modification of Portland adding cash, but I doubt if that moves the needle. Brooklyn fans don't seem to like Vonleh. I think he's a pretty decent player myself, who may one day be even better. Certainly, he's worth a second-round pick.

I think the point is that the Blazers aren't really in a position to insist on the pick when 1) They don't intend on bringing Vonleh back; and 2) there's no point in retaining him if doing so puts you into the luxury tax. If the Nets will just take him, they should ship him out.

Fair enough, jbk. I saw him as an asset for the Nets, a better asset than they are likely to draft. I guess I'm wrong.

In a vacuum, he's probably a worth a second. But if you're not taking back any salary, this market, you've probably spent that second.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

LOL. Only Blazers fans seem to like it though, so I guess it isn't right. It was my intention to be fair, though. I was trying to help.

I could imagine another team doing this deal with a lower 2nd rounder, if they for some reason really needed a back up PF and didn’t have cap space to sign him in the summer. But it doesn’t make sense for the Nets to give up assets for a back up PF.

Probably I don't value draft picks as highly as you do, especially second-round picks. I would only expect to get a bench player for a second-round pick, even a high one. While there are exceptions, statistically, it is unusual that a second-round player is a big contributor. The odds are that the second-round pick you draft would be inferior to Noah Vonleh are pretty high.

To be honest our front office has been pretty good at nailing late picks/g-league steals and I’d rather give them the chance to do it again than pay for someone else’s mistake. Especially when there’s a scenario where we get both players.

I only expect to get a bench player as well but the thing is that this is a rebuilding team and acquiring a bench player is more or less meaningless.

[Myth]

He has almost no value cause you can sign him for half of the MLE or less in a couple of months and portland won’t match because they have to go into the luxury tax to re-sign Nurkic.

His RFA rights mean nothing. No one loses any sleep cause they couldn’t match a contract for Noah Vonleh.

Make it a top 55 protected 2nd and we’ll take him but there’s absolutely no reason to give up a high 2nd rounder.

Blazers may actually be willing to sign him if he is cheap. Not only are they willing to go into luxury tax, they fully expect to next season. Trading Noah this season to avoid the repeater tax makes a lot of sense, but if he is on the team going into free agency, then that means we traded somebody else to avoid the repeater tax or we are already in it. Essentially, this means that to sign him away from Portland, you may need to overpay. If a team trades for him and has the rights to him, then they only have to overpay to keep him if a 3rd team steps in and offers to overpay for him. Now if you don't want him at all, that is fine, but the idea that Portland would be unwilling to re-sign him if he is cheap is false.

I doubt we would need to overpay. Even a 4 mill deal will make a luxury tax team think twice if it’s for their 3rd string PF/C.

But like I said, no one is losing any sleep over missing out on Noah Vonleh. He’s been incredibly disappointing throughout his career.

I'd be very surprised if they let him go for $4M per.

[DoItALL9]

cash considerations need to be added


Plus

Also, something minor say...maybe a future 2nd round pick swap could make it worth Brooklyn's while

[Norm2953]

Blazers may actually be willing to sign him if he is cheap. Not only are they willing to go into luxury tax, they fully expect to next season. Trading Noah this season to avoid the repeater tax makes a lot of sense, but if he is on the team going into free agency, then that means we traded somebody else to avoid the repeater tax or we are already in it. Essentially, this means that to sign him away from Portland, you may need to overpay. If a team trades for him and has the rights to him, then they only have to overpay to keep him if a 3rd team steps in and offers to overpay for him. Now if you don't want him at all, that is fine, but the idea that Portland would be unwilling to re-sign him if he is cheap is false.

I doubt we would need to overpay. Even a 4 mill deal will make a luxury tax team think twice if it’s for their 3rd string PF/C.

But like I said, no one is losing any sleep over missing out on Noah Vonleh. He’s been incredibly disappointing throughout his career.

I'd be very surprised if they let him go for $4M per.

It's likely Portland despite their LT issues would match a $4 Million offer. In the end, they've got to pay somebody
to replace him.