Knickerbockers / Cavaliers / Bulls

[gardenofsound]

NYK Out: Noah, CHI 2nd, pick swap
NYK In: Shumpert, Felicio, pick swap

CLE Out: Shumpert, pick swap
CLE In: Holiday, pick swap

CHI out: Holiday, Felicio, pick swap
CHI in: Noah, CHI 2nd, pick swap

For the pick swap of BKN, NYK, and CHI 2018 1sts:

Chicago gets the best of the three picks (could be BKN or CHI pick, unlikely to be NYK pick)
Cleveland gets the second best (could be BKN or CHI pick, very unlikely to be NYK pick)
New York gets the worst (very likely to be their own)

Thoughts?

[Laimbeer]

Knicks aren't getting out of Noah's deal that easily. That's like $30M more than Schump.

[gardenofsound]

Knicks aren't getting out of Noah's deal that easily. That's like $30M more than Schump.

What should they add, and who should it be going to? I'm sure the Bulls would love their 2018 1st outright, but I suspect that's completely off the table.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

This is pretty bad for Cleveland. You really think they’re gonna move down in this draft to turn Shumpert into Holiday? The Knicks should be trading their 1st outright and maybe more if they want to dump Noah.

You’re doing your own team a disservice here.

[Laimbeer]

Knicks aren't getting out of Noah's deal that easily. That's like $30M more than Schump.

What should they add, and who should it be going to?

Your own Bulls. That swap isn't likely to help them that much.

On edit - didn't realize that was the Brooklyn pick.

[DowJones]

Cavs obviously decline

[gardenofsound]

This is pretty bad for Cleveland. You really think they’re gonna move down in this draft to turn Shumpert into Holiday? The Knicks should be trading their 1st outright and maybe more if they want to dump Noah.

You’re doing your own team a disservice here.

I won't necessarily disagree with the 2nd statement about doing the Bulls a disservice.

As for this being bad for Cleveland, as proposed, the worst realistic scenario has them getting the Bulls pick, which is still likely a mid lotto pick (in a similar range to Brooklyn), particularly assuming that Mirotic is traded also.

It's very likely that, after the lottery, the Cavs still have the BKN pick. I think it's unlikely the Cavs lose more than 2 spots in the draft order.

How does this balance it?

CHI Out: Felicio, Holiday
CHI In: Noah, NYK 1st, best of BKN/CHI 1sts

CLE Out: Shumpert
CLE In: Holiday, worse of BKN/CHI 1sts, CHI 2nd

NYK Out: Noah
NYK In: Shumpert, Felicio, NYK 1st, CHI 2nd

[Laimbeer]

Right now Nets #8, Bulls #9, Knicks #12.

[gardenofsound]

Right now Nets #8, Bulls #9, Knicks #12.

Edited my post preceding yours.

How does this balance it?

CHI Out: Felicio, Holiday
CHI In: Noah, NYK 1st, best of BKN/CHI 1sts

CLE Out: Shumpert
CLE In: Holiday, worse of BKN/CHI 1sts, CHI 2nd

NYK Out: Noah
NYK In: Shumpert, Felicio, NYK 1st, CHI 2nd

[TheBrooklynKidd]

This is pretty bad for Cleveland. You really think they’re gonna move down in this draft to turn Shumpert into Holiday? The Knicks should be trading their 1st outright and maybe more if they want to dump Noah.

You’re doing your own team a disservice here.

I won't necessarily disagree with the 2nd statement about doing the Bulls a disservice.

As for this being bad for Cleveland, as proposed, the worst realistic scenario has them getting the Bulls pick, which is still likely a mid lotto pick (in a similar range to Brooklyn), particularly assuming that Mirotic is traded also.

It's very likely that, after the lottery, the Cavs still have the BKN pick. I think it's unlikely the Cavs lose more than 2 spots in the draft order.

How does this balance it?

CHI Out: Felicio, Holiday
CHI In: Noah, NYK 1st, best of BKN/CHI 1sts

CLE Out: Shumpert
CLE In: Holiday, worse of BKN/CHI 1sts, CHI 2nd

NYK Out: Noah
NYK In: Shumpert, Felicio, NYK 1st, CHI 2nd

This one works IMO. Can’t let the Knicks get out of their mistakes that easy.

[HoopsterJones]

This is a hard no from the Cavs prospective.

[ChettheJet]

The only way the Bulls are even remotely interested is if they add a 1st round pick and it better be a single digit pick because Noah is just an expensive towel waver that they have no use for.

How does someone list a trade where CHI gets their own pick? Where in the hell is the swap in that?

[jbk1234]

Cavs obviously decline

Yeah after this season, Shump & JR become $25 million in expiring contracts. Couple them with the Brooklyn pick and see what's available.

[gardenofsound]

The only way the Bulls are even remotely interested is if they add a 1st round pick and it better be a single digit pick because Noah is just an expensive towel waver that they have no use for.

How does someone list a trade where CHI gets their own pick? Where in the hell is the swap in that?

New York owns Chicago's 2018 2nd rounder, if you're looking at the initial post. I'm not fully sure what you're talking about otherwise.

Check the revised offer. Bulls get the better of a pick swap with Brooklyn AND New York's pick.

Cavs obviously decline

Yeah after this season, Shump & JR become $25 million in expiring contracts. Couple them with the Brooklyn pick and see what's available.

JR Smith's contract is through the 2019-2020 season. Shump, with player option exercised, is through 2018-2019 season. Holiday is through 2018-2019 season.

This is a hard no from the Cavs prospective.

Why though? They get a projected high second rounder, and the loss of 1st round draft position is likely to be minimal if at all. The Bulls are actively shopping Mirotic, Grant, Holiday, and RoLo. They're not going to get better, even with LaVine back, because you still need to play defense to win. There's a very good chance that BKN ends up being a better team (thus worse draft position) than Chicago anyways.

[jbk1234]

The only way the Bulls are even remotely interested is if they add a 1st round pick and it better be a single digit pick because Noah is just an expensive towel waver that they have no use for.

How does someone list a trade where CHI gets their own pick? Where in the hell is the swap in that?

New York owns Chicago's 2018 2nd rounder, if you're looking at the initial post. I'm not fully sure what you're talking about otherwise.

Check the revised offer. Bulls get the better of a pick swap with Brooklyn AND New York's pick.

Cavs obviously decline

Yeah after this season, Shump & JR become $25 million in expiring contracts. Couple them with the Brooklyn pick and see what's available.

JR Smith's contract is through the 2019-2020 season. Shump, with player option exercised, is through 2018-2019 season. Holiday is through 2018-2019 season.

This is a hard no from the Cavs prospective.

Why though? They get a projected high second rounder, and the loss of 1st round draft position is likely to be minimal if at all. The Bulls are actively shopping Mirotic, Grant, Holiday, and RoLo. They're not going to get better, even with LaVine back, because you still need to play defense to win. There's a very good chance that BKN ends up being a better team (thus worse draft position) than Chicago anyways.

Only three million of JR's last year is guaranteed. He's essentially expiring next summer. As to why no because the difference between Shump's contract and Holiday's contract isn't worth that much.

[HoopsterJones]

The only way the Bulls are even remotely interested is if they add a 1st round pick and it better be a single digit pick because Noah is just an expensive towel waver that they have no use for.

How does someone list a trade where CHI gets their own pick? Where in the hell is the swap in that?

New York owns Chicago's 2018 2nd rounder, if you're looking at the initial post. I'm not fully sure what you're talking about otherwise.

Check the revised offer. Bulls get the better of a pick swap with Brooklyn AND New York's pick.

Cavs obviously decline

Yeah after this season, Shump & JR become $25 million in expiring contracts. Couple them with the Brooklyn pick and see what's available.

JR Smith's contract is through the 2019-2020 season. Shump, with player option exercised, is through 2018-2019 season. Holiday is through 2018-2019 season.

This is a hard no from the Cavs prospective.

Why though? They get a projected high second rounder, and the loss of 1st round draft position is likely to be minimal if at all. The Bulls are actively shopping Mirotic, Grant, Holiday, and RoLo. They're not going to get better, even with LaVine back, because you still need to play defense to win. There's a very good chance that BKN ends up being a better team (thus worse draft position) than Chicago anyways.

The pick swap needs to be viewed objectively in terms of value. Especially this year’s draft.

As it currently stands, BKN pick is the better pick. The Bulls have been trending upwards (14-7 in last 21 games). They also just got LaVine back.

The opportunity cost of swapping Holiday for Shumpert arguably nets the Cavs a better player right now for less money. In my opinion he does not move the needle all that much. He’s somewhat redundant and will likely play maybe 20 mpg? They still have to play Korver, JR Smith, Wade minutes too.

The BKN pick is the Cavs best trade asset by a mile. If they part with it, it needs to be for an impact player. In my opinion.

[Rockazoids]

This is pretty bad for Cleveland. You really think they’re gonna move down in this draft to turn Shumpert into Holiday? The Knicks should be trading their 1st outright and maybe more if they want to dump Noah.

You’re doing your own team a disservice here.

I won't necessarily disagree with the 2nd statement about doing the Bulls a disservice.

As for this being bad for Cleveland, as proposed, the worst realistic scenario has them getting the Bulls pick, which is still likely a mid lotto pick (in a similar range to Brooklyn), particularly assuming that Mirotic is traded also.

It's very likely that, after the lottery, the Cavs still have the BKN pick. I think it's unlikely the Cavs lose more than 2 spots in the draft order.

How does this balance it?

CHI Out: Felicio, Holiday
CHI In: Noah, NYK 1st, best of BKN/CHI 1sts

CLE Out: Shumpert
CLE In: Holiday, worse of BKN/CHI 1sts, CHI 2nd

NYK Out: Noah
NYK In: Shumpert, Felicio, NYK 1st, CHI 2nd

There is no way NYK trade their 1st & CHI 2nd and have to take Shumpert & Felicio. It's not like either of the two are any good.
Noah will be off the books in 2 year. NYK are not winning anything in 2 year anyway.

[BR0D1E86]

This is horrendous or the Bulls. They take on Noah, give up a second, and don’t even add a first. Granted they move Felicio, but that doesn’t even come close to making up for the inequity.


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