Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night

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Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#1 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:39 pm

Ill offer this idea for:
-Hawks trade into getting 2nd lottery pick by leveraging cap space.
-Denver cuts salary to absorb potential contract extension to Jokic while getting multiple picks to fill out roster

To Atlanta
-Kenneth Faried (1 year, $13.7 million)
-2018 Denver 1st round pick (projected 14)

To Denver
-2018 Minnesota 1st round pick (projected 20)
-2018 Houston 1st round pick (projected 30)


Why?
-If Jokic's 2018-19 salary jumps $20 million (ie. gets a 4 year, $80-90 million offer sheet), the Nuggets need flexibility to stay under luxury tax. Faried's $13.7 million contract off the books accomplishes this as they free up glut in frontcourt. The Nuggets use the 2 picks to create more depth off the bench

Murray/FA?/#30/
Harris/Beasley/#56
Chandler/#20/
Milsap/Lyles/Lydon/Arthur?
Jokic/Plumlee/Hernangomez

-The Hawks leverage cap space to add Faried, who can backup Collins at the 4, while getting a 2nd lottery pick.

Schroder/FA?/Taylor
Bazemore/#14/Dorsey
Prince/Bembry/2018 2nd
Collins/Faried/Cavanagh
2018 1st/Plumlee/Muscala
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#2 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:14 pm

I don't think Den gets both picks back. I think fair value would be Faried, 14 for 20.

But I also don't think Denver should continue to trade back.

Thought Jokic had another year under rookie deal?
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#3 » by BullyKing » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:35 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I don't think Den gets both picks back. I think fair value would be Faried, 14 for 20.

But I also don't think Denver should continue to trade back.

Thought Jokic had another year under rookie deal?


I think he has an option that they are likely to decline so he becomes a RFA instead of a UFA next summer.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#4 » by jayu70 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:39 pm

So if Faried is considered a salary dump by Denver why do they get 2 1st round picks out of the deal? One is a stretch, 2 is definitely not happening.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#5 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:59 pm

1. Well on paper, does #14 pick = #20 + #30?
2. Further, is Faried neutral value, slightly negative value, or true negative value?
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#6 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:03 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:1. Well on paper, does #14 pick = #20 + #30?
2. Further, is Faried neutral value, slightly negative value, or true negative value?


To ATL, he's negative value.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#7 » by kg01 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:01 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:1. Well on paper, does #14 pick = #20 + #30?
2. Further, is Faried neutral value, slightly negative value, or true negative value?


To ATL, he's negative value.


Spoken like a true (closet) Hawks fan. 8-)

Seriously, as @jayu said, how would DEN end up with 2 1sts if Faried is a salary dump? To ATL, Faried is nuclearly-negative value.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#8 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:22 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:1. Well on paper, does #14 pick = #20 + #30?
2. Further, is Faried neutral value, slightly negative value, or true negative value?


To ATL, he's negative value.


Well in absorbing Faried, Hawks would still have $14.7 million cap space if they want to use that to absorb salary over 2018-19 season to get back further picks. ie. Bayless + future picks from Philly.

Bazemore: $18 million
Schroder: $15.5 million
Faried: $13.7 million
Plumlee: $12.5 million
Muscala: $5 million
Prince: $2.5 million
Collins: $2.3 million
Taylor: $1.6 million
Bembry: $1.6 million
Cavanagh: $1.4 million
Dorsey: $1.4 million
2018 Hawks 1st: $6 million
2018 Denver 1st: $2.5 milion
2018 Atlanta 2nd: $1 million
Crawford dead cap: $2.3 million
Open roster spot: $580,000
=$86.3 million.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#9 » by jayu70 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:45 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:1. Well on paper, does #14 pick = #20 + #30?
2. Further, is Faried neutral value, slightly negative value, or true negative value?


To ATL, he's negative value.


Well in absorbing Faried, Hawks would still have $14.7 million cap space if they want to use that to absorb salary over 2018-19 season to get back further picks. ie. Bayless + future picks from Philly.

Bazemore: $18 million
Schroder: $15.5 million
Faried: $13.7 million
Plumlee: $12.5 million
Muscala: $5 million
Prince: $2.5 million
Collins: $2.3 million
Taylor: $1.6 million
Bembry: $1.6 million
Cavanagh: $1.4 million
Dorsey: $1.4 million
2018 Hawks 1st: $6 million
2018 Denver 1st: $2.5 milion
2018 Atlanta 2nd: $1 million
Crawford dead cap: $2.3 million
Open roster spot: $580,000
=$86.3 million.

The amount of the Hawks leftover capspace does not matter in determining Faried's value (negative to the Hawks) in terms of what Atlanta is giving Denver in return.
Again why give two assets for a negative valued asset?
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#10 » by jayjaysee » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:59 pm

I think 20 and a future 2nd for 14 and Faried is the mark. 20 and 30 seems steep but 20 and waiting til 2020 for Atlanta’s 2nd seems right.

I like the idea though, it’s different. If Atlanta feels Faried is completely useless and all negative (he isn’t that but he isn’t good)

Chicago works in this little template as well with the Pels first.


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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#11 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:01 pm

jayu70 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
To ATL, he's negative value.


Well in absorbing Faried, Hawks would still have $14.7 million cap space if they want to use that to absorb salary over 2018-19 season to get back further picks. ie. Bayless + future picks from Philly.

Bazemore: $18 million
Schroder: $15.5 million
Faried: $13.7 million
Plumlee: $12.5 million
Muscala: $5 million
Prince: $2.5 million
Collins: $2.3 million
Taylor: $1.6 million
Bembry: $1.6 million
Cavanagh: $1.4 million
Dorsey: $1.4 million
2018 Hawks 1st: $6 million
2018 Denver 1st: $2.5 milion
2018 Atlanta 2nd: $1 million
Crawford dead cap: $2.3 million
Open roster spot: $580,000
=$86.3 million.

The amount of the Hawks leftover capspace does not matter in determining Faried's value (negative to the Hawks) in terms of what Atlanta is giving Denver in return.
Again why give two assets for a negative valued asset?


Well its not like the HAwks are going to attract a max free agent with $28 million in cap space. Perhaps adding #30 is too much for Hawks to ad if Faried is viewed as a true negative assets. As a result I think:

Faried + #14 for #20 makes sense.

The Hawks could turn around and then do

Bayless + #21 for #32

The Hawks would have their own pick, #14, #21, #30
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#12 » by jayu70 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:17 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
Well in absorbing Faried, Hawks would still have $14.7 million cap space if they want to use that to absorb salary over 2018-19 season to get back further picks. ie. Bayless + future picks from Philly.

Bazemore: $18 million
Schroder: $15.5 million
Faried: $13.7 million
Plumlee: $12.5 million
Muscala: $5 million
Prince: $2.5 million
Collins: $2.3 million
Taylor: $1.6 million
Bembry: $1.6 million
Cavanagh: $1.4 million
Dorsey: $1.4 million
2018 Hawks 1st: $6 million
2018 Denver 1st: $2.5 milion
2018 Atlanta 2nd: $1 million
Crawford dead cap: $2.3 million
Open roster spot: $580,000
=$86.3 million.

The amount of the Hawks leftover capspace does not matter in determining Faried's value (negative to the Hawks) in terms of what Atlanta is giving Denver in return.
Again why give two assets for a negative valued asset?


Well its not like the HAwks are going to attract a max free agent with $28 million in cap space. Perhaps adding #30 is too much for Hawks to ad if Faried is viewed as a true negative assets. As a result I think:

Faried + #14 for #20 makes sense.

The Hawks could turn around and then do

Bayless + #21 for #32

The Hawks would have their own pick, #14, #21, #30

Most Hawks fans know and accept that, doesn't mean because they have capspace they should take an unfair deal to rent said capspace.
I have no issue with the deal in principal, just that Denver needs to move salary but somehow ends up with 2 1sts in return, just doesn't jive with what a salary dump represents.
Again why should the Hawks give up a 1st round pick to rent capspace? What am I missing?
If Atlanta didn't gave either if those late 1sts but had capspace, what would the deal be?
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Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#13 » by jayjaysee » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:25 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:Faried + #14 for #20 makes sense.

The Hawks could turn around and then do

Bayless + #21 for #32

The Hawks would have their own pick, #14, #21, #30


Using Philly gave me a different idea..

Bayless and 11 to Denver
14 and Faried to Atl
20, 2019 Denver first (top 10 protected), 2019 Atl 2nd to Philly

Philly clears Bayless and splits a late lotto pick into a few assets for cheap labor in future, Denver trades up and clears 5 mil and Bayless can work off Ball in their system..

Not sure how I feel about it, but I think Hinkie would do it.


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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#14 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:12 pm

I just think Hawks should use their cap space to improve 2018 draft position. Taking back the likes of Faried and Bayless to move up in the draft seems like best route to help accelerate rebuilding process.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#15 » by Jaw » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:54 pm

I like the #14 + Faried for #20 idea. If I'm Denver though if Knox, Bridges or Smith are available at #14 I'd probably take one of them and try to use Hernangomez and/or Lydon to dump salary. With Barton and potentially Chandler (PO) free agents the Nuggets perimeter rotation will be lacking.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#16 » by chaliban » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 pm

If ATL got 14, I think it would make more sense to keep moving that pick up. These all seem like overpays for ATL but:

14 for 11, Bayless: Only a slight drop for the $8m for PHI.
14, Bazemore for 10, Batum, Zeller: Bazemore is a poor man's Batum signed for less money and years. Do ATL need to take on Zeller?
14, Schroder for 9, Noah: Seems like a big difference between Dennis and Noah for moving up 5 spots. Is 20, Schroder for 9, Noah more realistic?
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#17 » by Bentley1225 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:41 am

chaliban wrote:If ATL got 14, I think it would make more sense to keep moving that pick up. These all seem like overpays for ATL but:

14 for 11, Bayless: Only a slight drop for the $8m for PHI.
14, Bazemore for 10, Batum, Zeller: Bazemore is a poor man's Batum signed for less money and years. Do ATL need to take on Zeller?
14, Schroder for 9, Noah: Seems like a big difference between Dennis and Noah for moving up 5 spots. Is 20, Schroder for 9, Noah more realistic?


I mean you could try to trade into getting a top 10 2nd round pick:

Faried + #14 for #19 with Denver
Bayless + #21 for #32 With Philly
#9 for #14, #21 & #30 with New York
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#18 » by Domejandro » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:48 am

#14 and Kenneth Faried for #20 alone is an excellent deal for Denver, and a pretty good one for Atlanta. I like that a lot.

Atlanta rolls with #4(?), #14, #30, and #34
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#19 » by Resistance » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:43 am

An alternative trade for Denver would be with the Pacers.

#14 + Faried ($13,764,045) for #18 + Jefferson ($10,000,000 -- $4 million partial guarantee).

Then the Nuggets stretch waive Jefferson's $4 million over three years.
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Re: Atlanta/Denver - Draft Night 

Post#20 » by NuggetsWY » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:52 am

Just looking at the OP, I see no reason for Atlanta to make this deal. It's an overpay for a low lottery pick & a player that probably won't be a part of their future plans. They should probably keep their picks. Drafting is a crap shoot and the two picks could work out and who knows, the better pick might not (see Noel & Okafor).

I'm not convinced it's a good deal for Denver either. We have a lot of youth and what might make it better is a future pick (but I'd prefer to have one this year). I think Denver should take the OP, I'm not convinced our front office will agree.

Faried + #14 for #20 seems fair if it's a salary dump, but I think Denver can live with Faried's salary for one more year, so I don't think they'll like that at all. Probably why the OP included two 1sts. How about a counter proposal of Faried + #14 and a 2nd for #20 and a future 1st? Someone smarter can work out the rest of the details.

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