I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers

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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#21 » by ETGoHome » Fri May 25, 2018 5:12 pm

Downtown wrote:I wonder if the Lakers would want McCollum for Ingram and Hart if Portland took Deng back as well? Would the Lakers have enough room to sign Paul George? They would then end up with Ball, McCollum, and George, which I would think is a significant upgrade to Ball, Hart, and Ingram.

Portland ends up with Lillard, Hart, and Ingram, which gives them an upgrade at small forward, and I think it would also save them some money as well. They could then explore options with Turner, and possibly one of Harkless or Aminu.


I really like this trade for Portland. Deng expires at the same time as all the other bad contracts so it would line up well for them. Ingram is absolutely the type of player they should go after.

The Lakers would still have room to sign one max player, like George, but they wouldn't have enough for two. So the idea of Lebron, PG13, and CJ all coming to the Lakers wouldn't work. If they're all in, they might go for it. If I were them, I'd rather try and get George this year and if you can't get anyone else, then roll over the space to 2019 and try again.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#22 » by Wizenheimer » Fri May 25, 2018 5:43 pm

Blockwatcher wrote:Turner , Leonard and 24
For
Kanter and Lance Thomas


as a Blazers fan that trade makes me hot and sweaty....so that also makes me think the Knicks wouldn't do it, even if Kanter did pick up his option. But apparently you're a Knicks fan so lets sign the form and send it to the league office
*********************************************************************************************

this thread gives me a chance to bring my obnoxious opinions out of the Blazer forum and into the general population....where there are more shivs.

Portland is in a bind. They have a broken but ridiculously expensive roster that appears to be capped out, in more ways then one; and they are a young team with limited upside and very little flexibility. Take your choice: treadmill or purgatory

this all tracks back to a rash of horrible decisions consummated in July of 2016. Blazer management completely misread the end of 2015-16 season and the 'meaning' of their 1st round playoff win over the injury-ravaged LA Clippers. They decided to double-down on that team. You can talk about the contracts give to Allen Crabbe, Evan Turner and Meyers Leonard. For sure those were absolutely stupid decisions. Making it even worse is that before giving Evan Turner that deal, the Blazer GM's first choice was Chandler Parsons for a even bigger contract. Are you kidding me?? Parsons the main prize but Turner was the consolation... :banghead:

anyway, those were all bad decisions. But the worst one, IMO, was the decision to build the team around the Lillard/McCollum back-court; make those two players the two max contracts and the two primary options. One way it was a bad decision is that the two players were simply too redundant in style, game, and size. A pair of ball-dominant 6'2 guards hampered by poor defense. The other way it was bad is that McCollum, bluntly stated, was simply not good enough to justify the commitment of salary and usage. He's not an all-star level player but he has a near max contract. This season, he was 8th in the NBA in FGA's/game and 3rd in total FGA's. Yet, he had a TS% that was about 20 points below the league average. His production efficiency does not warrant the possessions he uses or the way he uses them

so...what to do? well, the first thing is to fire the ass of the architect that designed this mess...the Blazer GM. Next, take an objective look at the Dame/CJ pairing and that should have CJ on the trade market. Portland can't climb any further up the ladder from where it's leaning. They have to step down and re-position the ladder. Probably take a couple of steps back before they can take 3 steps forward. Tinkering around with the lower levels of the rotation isn't going to do any good. The problem is at the top of both the roster and the management
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#23 » by JasonStern » Fri May 25, 2018 7:54 pm

so many unrealistic proposals... unfortunately, both teams have to agree for a trade to go through.

Nurkić+#24 isn't landing Gordon and wouldn't address the salary cap issue

nobody is taking on Turner for pick #24

McCollum isn't netting a lotto pick, Harris, and dumping Turner's contract

given how many picks they have, Atlanta has no need for a late 1st round pick

for the right price, the Knicks might bite on Turner or Leonard - but it's highly unlikely they can dump both without giving up serious value. #24+Leonard for Thomas?
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#24 » by shrink » Sat May 26, 2018 2:31 am

No idea from me on their difficult position, but I wanted to give kudos to the POR trade posters, who I feel have a longtime tradition of being some of the most realistic and unbiased fanbases we have on these Trade Boards. Good job, guys!
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#25 » by Blazers20 » Sat May 26, 2018 3:11 am

CJ & Nurkic (S&T) to Atlanta
Aminu, Mo & #30 to Minny
#3 (Bagley or Porter) & Wiggins to Portland
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#26 » by SalemStoner » Sat May 26, 2018 4:38 am

As a Blazer fan, the two ideas I've liked the most that don't involve us escaping our Evan Turner & Meyers Leonard induced cap hell are the following CJ based deals. At least as far as realistic options go.

CJ for Deng + Ingram

CJ for Wiggins

Maybe one team needs a little more in one direction or the other in those deals but the basis seems realistic to me, minor tweaks aside.

I'm pretty sure both of these deals would be best consummated AFTER the start of FA this summer.

Either way I would like to see us re - sign Nurkic. Especially since I think we can get him signed to something reasonable short of Neil Olshey and Paul Allen needlessly driving up the price with their fantastic negotiation skills.

I would love to lose Turner and/or Leonard for shorter contacts but I would try to avoid using a 1st to do it. I might be more inclined if we made a move to upgrade SF though.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#27 » by Spens1 » Sat May 26, 2018 4:55 am

CJ for Beal maybe could work? Also CJ for Cousins (S&T) wouldn't be a bad option either for both parties.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#28 » by jazzfan1971 » Sat May 26, 2018 5:34 am

I'll float this out there, but I imagine both sides will be burning me in effigy.

Utah trades
-------------------
Donovan Mitchell
Ricky Rubio
Udoh
Jerebko
Burks
Sefolosha

Portland trades
---------------------
Dame
CJ

Why for Portland: They decide to blow it up and take a young star in the making in Donovan Mitchell and a ton of salary relief.

Why for Utah: They decide to get their big 3 via trade. Dame, CJ, and Gobert is a pretty good core locked up for a few years. Toss in Jingles and Favors and I think you are looking at a contending team.

I suspect both fan bases are seeing red and breathing fire at the idea.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#29 » by BadWolf » Sat May 26, 2018 7:05 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'll float this out there, but I imagine both sides will be burning me in effigy.

Utah trades
-------------------
Donovan Mitchell
Ricky Rubio
Udoh
Jerebko
Burks
Sefolosha

Portland trades
---------------------
Dame
CJ

Why for Portland: They decide to blow it up and take a young star in the making in Donovan Mitchell and a ton of salary relief.

Why for Utah: They decide to get their big 3 via trade. Dame, CJ, and Gobert is a pretty good core locked up for a few years. Toss in Jingles and Favors and I think you are looking at a contending team.

I suspect both fan bases are seeing red and breathing fire at the idea.


Interesting idea. Imo Jazz say no, even though they become a better version of Portland with this deal. Both Lillard and CJ are young enough to go with Gobert, Jingles and Favors. But I'm not sure they're really any closer to contending then with what they have, that is still a tier or two under GSW /Hou. It would be extremely hard to move away from Mitchell, with the way he wanted to go to Jazz and the growth he had last year.

Blazers get out of luxury tax hell. Get a bit worse short term but not all that much, really depends on what they do with the rest of the team, maybe they just hit the soft reset button. Would they, would Allen?
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#30 » by Terakos » Sat May 26, 2018 2:09 pm

1.Trade McCollum for Middleton and Brogdon
2.Trade Turner for Dieng (or Noah)
3.Trade Leonard + Second round pick 2019 for Bembry
4.Re-sign Connaughton for 15M 3Y
5.Sign Acy or Tolliver for minimum.
6.Sign a veteran guard

Lillard/No 24
Brogdon/Connaughton
Middleton/Harkless/Bembry
Aminu/Acy/Swanigan
Patton/Dieng/Papagiannis
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#31 » by jpengland » Sat May 26, 2018 2:20 pm

Ouch. That salary sheet is straight up disgusting.

I think it's clear that Lillard/McCollum isn't getting near a championship. So first move is to extract some value from one of those guys.

Lillard took.huge strides this year. So CJ is the piece I'm.moving.

I don't see that Nurkic is really going to have a fantastic FA market this summer as there is just no money available.

I'd probably offer 3/36 at most. I don't see anyone with space beating that. If he wants to gamble on his QO and be unrestricted next year, fine. Tell him that's ok and if he plays as well as he did this year the money will be on the table once again.

I'd try to turn. cJ into a defensive minded wing and a pick. I'd certainly see if Philly were dumb enough to give Covington and 10.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#32 » by Soulyss » Sat May 26, 2018 2:22 pm

At the end of the day, here is what the Blazers will do this off-season: Almost Nothing

- The Blazers will probably re-sign Nurkic & Davis... and probably try and retain Baldwin.
- I see it highly unlikely that the Blazers use a pick to move Salary. The draft is one of the things they do well.
- The Blazers will sit tight on Salaries until all of those absurd contracts they signed in 2016 (Mo, Meyers, Turner) are expiring deals. I suspect next summer the Blazers will be hyper-aggressive in turning those expiring contracts into another star on a team entering a rebuild. I also suspect that Dame knows all of this and is bought in.
- I COULD see the Blazers moving #24 for a pick next year that they think will be more valuable which would also give them two assets next year to help facilitate a big trade
- If CJ is traded, it's going to have to be viewed as an absolute slam-dunk deal for the Blazers, and I don't see anyone making an godfather offer for CJ who is valuable, but not a top-10 player.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#33 » by Soulyss » Sat May 26, 2018 2:23 pm

jpengland wrote:Ouch. That salary sheet is straight up disgusting.

I think it's clear that Lillard/McCollum isn't getting near a championship. So first move is to extract some value from one of those guys.

Lillard took.huge strides this year. So CJ is the piece I'm.moving.

I don't see that Nurkic is really going to have a fantastic FA market this summer as there is just no money available.

I'd probably offer 3/36 at most. I don't see anyone with space beating that. If he wants to gamble on his QO and be unrestricted next year, fine. Tell him that's ok and if he plays as well as he did this year the money will be on the table once again.

I'd try to turn. cJ into a defensive minded wing and a pick. I'd certainly see if Philly were dumb enough to give Covington and 10.


I agree on Nurkic. I think you are low, but not unreasonably so. 3/45 to 4/60 wouldn't shock me at all. My BIGGEST fear this offseason is them bidding against themselves for Nurkic.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#34 » by Village Idiot » Sat May 26, 2018 10:12 pm

Trade: Charlotte-Indiana-Portland

Charlotte trades:

#11 pick
Nicolas Batum

Charlotte receives:

#23
#24
Evan Turner
Al Jefferson - cut with only $4 million guaranteed

Chalotte cuts salary after this upcoming season and most importantly gets massive savings in 2021 by not having to pay Batum $27 million. The cost is the #11 pick but in return they get a couple of later picks

Indiana trades:

Myles Turner
#23
Bojan Bogdanovic
Darren Collison
Al Jefferson

Indiana receives:

CJ McCollum
Myers Leonard
Caleb Swanigan

The Pacers get another go-to guy who can be the ideal back-court partner to Oladipo. All it cost them is a redundant center, a low pick, taking on Myers Leonard and their unguaranteed contracts.

Portland trades:

CJ McCollum
Myers Leonard
Caleb Swanigan
Evan Turner
#24

Portland receives:

#11 pick
Myles Turner
Nic Batum
Bojan Bogdanovic - cut with only $1.5 million guaranteed
Darren Collison - cut with only $2 million guaranteed

The Blazers cut $24 million in salary this upcoming season and get out of luxury tax hell. With Myles Turner on board Portland can afford to cut Nurkic loose if they don't get a good deal. Batum was a pretty good player in Portland. The Blazers hope last season was an aberration. The #11 can be used to get decent player.

Free-agency:

Let Nurkic, Napier, Connaughton go.

Resign Ed Davis with BAE
Regisn Wade Baldwin for vet minimum

Sign Avery Bradley with MLE to a first year salary starting at $8.5 million
sign one of the many veteran PGs with the veteran minimum - let's say Devin Harris

Draft:

#11 - Mikal Bridges - wing

Roster

PG: Lillard, Harris, Baldwin
SG: Bradley, Bridges
SF: Batum, Harkless, Layman
PF: Aminu, Collins
C: Turner, Davis

I believe the Blazers will be about $20 million under the luxury tax with this roster and have a massive trade exception for Evan Turner that they can use to pick up a veteran if they are better than expected. The teams identity is much more focussed on defense. There is a lot of versatility on this roster and a good mix of veterans entering their primes and younger players. The recent 1sts on the roster are (ages when season starts) Bridges (22), Turner (22), Baldwin (22), Collins (20). They will also have all of their future 1sts and plenty of flexibility.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#35 » by Waynearchetype » Sat May 26, 2018 10:21 pm

I'm not sure IND is ready to trade Myles Turner but I'm also not sure if I start him over Sabonis anymore...
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#36 » by JasonStern » Tue May 29, 2018 5:20 am

finally drunk enough to post my thoughts, so enjoy/avoid.

nobody knows what Portland should do this summer. the team is literally stuck in a treadmill situation.

the obvious casual fan thought is to blow it up - trade Dame and CJ for picks, build around young talent in Nurkic and Collins, and see what happens. but long term fans will realize that the Hinkie model is nothing new. the Sonics/Thunder did it before them. and what came from their Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka dynasty? one finals appearance. but even before then, the Blazers tanked. took THE KING OF FLAIR, NO ONE CAN COMPARE, TO SEBASTIAN TELFAIR. passed on Chris Paul because they had Telfair. drafted Brandon Roy only to lose him to injuries. acquired LaMarcus Aldridge only to lose him in free agency. passed on Kevin Durant to draft a domestic abusing alcoholic in Greg Oden. and then you have an owner in Paul Allen that has fought cancer and very likely does not want to sit through a long rebuild - in fact, very believable rumors suggest that Rich Cho was fired for wanting to go down that path as opposed to maximizing what opportunity was provided.

so being the "RealGM", our objective is not to win a championship, but rather to provide the most entertaining team to a passive aggressive owner. unfortunately, the team is capped out without much talent, dealing with flaws that have been mitigated so far. they do have a face of the franchise, which is a huge advantage. but he's also entering his prime and lacks a supporting cast. so what do you do?

Olshey - fire his ass. no question there.

Stotts - this is a huge question. the Blazers have maxed out their potential under Stotts. he's a great regular season coach, but given time, opposing coaches can out-scheme him. but he's still an amazing regular season coach. so if you can replace him with a great coach, you take that. but odds are even if you upgrade, you make it harder to make the playoffs due to the lack of talent the team has.

Dame - off limits. it could easily take a decade or three to replace him.

McCollum - should be moved for better fitting pieces, but probably won't. you have to shop him, but I get if you don't make a move to "sell high". but if his value is what the trade board seemingly thinks it is, on occasion...

Nurkic - tell him to find the best contract he can and then match it. he is young enough to be a piece you can rebuild around with Collins. should you? no, but despite the "young team" narrative, this is a team lacking rookie scale talent.

picks - Portland is in a good position pick-wise as they do not owe any, but their late season rally moved them from #14 (no playoffs) to #24. given a lack of overall talent, you can only include a future pick in a trade if it brings back proven talent. imagine if Dame gets injured - how far would Portland fall? that said, #24 isn't as valuable as Blazers fans make it out to be, so if a reasonably priced veteran, salary relief, or an intriguing prospect that a team has buyers' remorse over becomes available, trade the pick.

Collins, #24, Swanigan, etc. - you kind of have to hold onto them unless an opportunity presents itself. what kind of opportunity? let's say LeBron leaves Cleveland. that probably puts Kevin Love on the market. Portland would be stupid to not make an offer to build around Dame at the potential long-term expense (see Butler and Cousins), although other teams likely can out-bid Portland due to a lack of assets. but you still have to ask about a Collins+#24+future 1st style package.

The Luxury Tax Red Flag - Turner, Leonard, Harkless, etc.
Harkless is neutral value, and I imagine a team that strikes out in free agency would't mind absorbing his contract. when he shows up, he's a really good player. unfortunately, he doesn't show up 82 games a year.
Turner is massively overpaid, and the best option Portland likely has is to ride his contract out. but if he can be moved for a similarly overpriced player - Ibaka? - Portland needs to jump at that. unless Stotts is replaced, which is risky, Turner just doesn't fit the style of play the Blazers run, so might as well gamble on a better fit.
Leonard - ideally, you ride out his contract and bash Olshey. but if you were the owner looking at $15+ million a season, the stretch option ($5 million/year for 4 years) looks really good despite its four year consequences.

the one trade I've posted and like for both teams is Harkless (neutral value)+#25 (positive value)+Leonard (negative value) for Carroll (neutral value). saves Portland $5 million this season (plus luxury tax) and gets Portland out of $20 million next season while providing them with a stopgap veteran. meanwhile the Nets get a pick they can hopefully combine to move up in the draft and a young-ish player in Harkless in exchange for spreading Carroll's salary out across two seasons. by no means is it a home run trade for either team, but it remains one of the most realistic moves that I can see. Nets fans hate it because they think they can land a big name free agent with their cap space, but as a fan of a team that has Turner, offered Parsons, offered Monroe, offered Hibbert, offered Turkoglu, etc., I'd be cautious about spending free agency money for the sake of spending free agency moeny.

the rest of the cast - is important for being a high 40s win team versus a low 40s win team. but realistically if your playoff chances stem on retaining (and paying luxury tax for) an Ed Davis or Shabazz Napier, your roster has bigger problems, which goes back to the "fire Olshey" comment earlier. FWIW I've always liked Ed Davis.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#37 » by NYG » Tue May 29, 2018 5:34 am

Could the Blazers get in on the Kawhi trade talks without losing Lillard?
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#38 » by JasonStern » Tue May 29, 2018 8:22 pm

NYG wrote:Could the Blazers get in on the Kawhi trade talks without losing Lillard?


as a third-team facilitator, maybe. but the Blazers don't have any non-Lillard assets that San Antonio would ever consider trading Leonard for.
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#39 » by Blazer50 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:16 pm

Posted in Blazer thread
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Re: I know what they should do this summer: Portland Trailblazers 

Post#40 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:22 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'll float this out there, but I imagine both sides will be burning me in effigy.

Utah trades
-------------------
Donovan Mitchell
Ricky Rubio
Udoh
Jerebko
Burks
Sefolosha

Portland trades
---------------------
Dame
CJ

Why for Portland: They decide to blow it up and take a young star in the making in Donovan Mitchell and a ton of salary relief.

Why for Utah: They decide to get their big 3 via trade. Dame, CJ, and Gobert is a pretty good core locked up for a few years. Toss in Jingles and Favors and I think you are looking at a contending team.

I suspect both fan bases are seeing red and breathing fire at the idea.


I actually like it, pair Dame & Lill with Ingles and Gobert, now that's a team to be reckon with

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