2 Deals That Could Keep Lebron in CLE

[nzahir]

Edits have been made

Deal 1: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycmcdscx

Cavs send 8th pick to Hornets
Maybe Cavs 2nd 2022 2nd to magic or Hornets send a 2nd(not sure if needed)

Why Cavs do it: They get Kemba to be that next star handler with Lebron and Simmons to play some defense on the wing

Why Hornets do it: They get the 8th pick to start over and an expiring guy in Hill(last year his deal is 1 million guranteed)

Why magic do it: They get a guy with more potential, younger, better shooter, expiring deal compared to 2 years of simmons, and are possibly given a 2nd

Why trade falls apart: MJ is stubborn and will try to win with Kemba even though they are going nowhere. Or he doesn't want to help out Lebron. Magic may not be very interested

OR

Deal 2: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7chczv2

Hornets receive 8th pick

Why Cavs do it: They get Kemba to be that next star handler with Lebron and Aminu to play some defense on the wing

Why Hornets do it: They get the 8th pick to start over and an expiring guy in Hill(last year his deal is 1 million guaranteed)

Why Blazers do it: They get CJ's replacement at SG if they want to move him for a wing or a big.

Why this trade can fail: Blazers dont want to move CJ.

Are these more reasonable?

[Brandon-Clyde]

The 8th pick, a mediocre player in George Hill and Osman does not bring a NBA first teamer like Lillard. It MIGHT get you CJ McCollum but even that might be doubtful

[nzahir]

The 8th pick, a mediocre player in George Hill and Osman does not bring a NBA first teamer like Lillard. It MIGHT get you CJ McCollum but even that might be doubtful

CJ is definitely not worth the 8th pick, 27 years old 25-30 million a year for the next 3 years and a poor defender. 8th pick(CJ was 10th), a nice young prospect, and a capable player who will be expiring (year 3 is 1 million guaranteed) is worth much more than CJ. Maybe its not worth Dame, but you guys aren't wining with this core anyways.

And who cares about 1st team. We all know when healthy, Curry, Kyrie, Cp3, are better point guards. I would even take WB over Dame depending on the team

[Texas Chuck]

[
And who cares about 1st team. We all know when healthy, Curry, Kyrie, Cp3, are better point guards. I would even take WB over Dame depending on the team

1st team 2nd team 3rd team, no team, the offer in the OP still falls woefully short of landing Dame.

[Waynearchetype]

The 8th pick, a mediocre player in George Hill and Osman does not bring a NBA first teamer like Lillard. It MIGHT get you CJ McCollum but even that might be doubtful

CJ is definitely not worth the 8th pick, 27 years old 25-30 million a year for the next 3 years and a poor defender. 8th pick(CJ was 10th), a nice young prospect, and a capable player who will be expiring (year 3 is 1 million guaranteed) is worth much more than CJ. Maybe its not worth Dame, but you guys aren't wining with this core anyways.

And who cares about 1st team. We all know when healthy, Curry, Kyrie, Cp3, are better point guards. I would even take WB over Dame depending on the team

Yeah, no. A few stars that had squables with their front management or were getting old on long contracts got firesold in the last 2 years. That is not Dames situation, and Cavs aren't fleecing Blazers like they got fleeced by Boston.

[Mystical Apples]

Not nearly enough for Kemba. Hornets aren’t gonna do teams favors by diluting the return for 3 draft positions. Hell, Trey Lyles got Utah 11 spots.

Recent precedent for All-Star caliber PG’s is quite easily ~ #6 to #12 including several on expiring contracts and/or for multiple picks.

Also keep in mind Kemba’s salary-to-cap is an absurd 11.9% which in of itself is roughly a $15m cap “savings” (and production boost for capped constrained teams). His hold is even lower than the majority of All-Star salaries.

[Dn4sty]

The 8th pick, a mediocre player in George Hill and Osman does not bring a NBA first teamer like Lillard. It MIGHT get you CJ McCollum but even that might be doubtful

CJ is definitely not worth the 8th pick, 27 years old 25-30 million a year for the next 3 years and a poor defender. 8th pick(CJ was 10th), a nice young prospect, and a capable player who will be expiring (year 3 is 1 million guaranteed) is worth much more than CJ. Maybe its not worth Dame, but you guys aren't wining with this core anyways.

And who cares about 1st team. We all know when healthy, Curry, Kyrie, Cp3, are better point guards. I would even take WB over Dame depending on the team

As an outsider your Portland offer falls WAY short for either player.

[Downtown]

Just to add my two cents yeah, this is a very poor return for Lillard. No matter who they draft at #8 he isn't leading the Blazers like Lillard does.

[nzahir]

Not nearly enough for Kemba. Hornets aren’t gonna do teams favors by diluting the return for 3 draft positions. Hell, Trey Lyles got Utah 11 spots.

Recent precedent for All-Star caliber PG’s is quite easily ~ #6 to #12 including several on expiring contracts and/or for multiple picks.

Also keep in mind Kemba’s salary-to-cap is an absurd 11.9% which in of itself is roughly a $15m cap “savings” (and production boost for capped constrained teams). His hold is even lower than the majority of All-Star salaries.

You do know Kemba has 1 year left and then will want the max right?

Kyrie, a much better guy with 2 years left, got moved for the 8th pick(nets pick seemed like it would be in 5-9 range before season), Jae Crowder, Zizic, and a very hurt/useless IT.

The 8th pick, cedi(as valuable as Jae imo), zizic, hill's expiring(last year is worth 1 million guaranteed) is a bit less than what Kyrie got, but Kyrie is more valuable obviously. Then you swap Batum's cancerous deal for Jr's deal, that costs you a lottery pick.

Maybe then there is no need to do the batum part and its kemba for hill and the 8th pick. But I think the Cavs need more, and salaries dont work. Need a 3rd team to give the cavs some value at sg or forward. A guy like simmons or aminu. Will post 2 edits

[KeithCozart]

Lillard is leading Blazers as best as he can and i believe in that, but i don't believe he can win anything on stacked west and that is a fact. This draft is super talented and they can pick a good-very good player at #8, not saying that player will be Lillard like with all his leadership skills but they obviously need to do somethin to get out of the first round.

If Lillard cares about winning he will do trade like this, playing with a guy like LeBron gives you best chances of winning title, and we saw that with Irving, Lillard is the same type player, score first PG.

[nzahir]

Just to add my two cents yeah, this is a very poor return for Lillard. No matter who they draft at #8 he isn't leading the Blazers like Lillard does.

Anyone in here from before, I edited the trades. Are they more fair now?

[Mystical Apples]

Not nearly enough for Kemba. Hornets aren’t gonna do teams favors by diluting the return for 3 draft positions. Hell, Trey Lyles got Utah 11 spots.

Recent precedent for All-Star caliber PG’s is quite easily ~ #6 to #12 including several on expiring contracts and/or for multiple picks.

Also keep in mind Kemba’s salary-to-cap is an absurd 11.9% which in of itself is roughly a $15m cap “savings” (and production boost for capped constrained teams). His hold is even lower than the majority of All-Star salaries.

You do know Kemba has 1 year left and then will want the max right?

Kyrie, a much better guy with 2 years left, got moved for the 8th pick(nets pick seemed like it would be in 5-9 range before season), Jae Crowder, Zizic, and a very hurt/useless IT.

The 8th pick, cedi(as valuable as Jae imo), zizic, hill's expiring(last year is worth 1 million guaranteed) is a bit less than what Kyrie got, but Kyrie is more valuable obviously. Then you swap Batum's cancerous deal for Jr's deal, that costs you a lottery pick. Maybe then there is no need to do the batum part and its kemba for hill and the 8th pick.

Good point. I'd let Charlotte worry about Batum's "cancerous deal."

But I think the Cavs need more, and salaries dont work. Need a 3rd team to give the cavs some value at sg or forward. A guy like simmons or aminu. Will post 2 edits

The expiring angle is already baked into his value. There's also the possbilitiy that his ~ $19.5M hold works in Cleveland's favor.

Cleveland received the eventual #8 for Kyrie that at one time had top 3 possibilities -- no such possibilities exist for Portland and Charlotte in your propsosal. Plus Crowder + Zizic + 2nd while holding less leverage following Free Agency.

And Dragic pulled (2) 1sts....and Hill #12. Knight eventually lol #10? And (2) top 10 picks for Jrue Holiday. Lowry returned the eventual #12 (Adams).

But Kemba gets Charlotte an 11 for 8 swap and Lillard #8? Let's be real, the PG market is brisk in June and July for good reason. Unlike other positions, teams consider elite PG's as essential gets. It just so happens that Lillard and Kemba are elite shooters in addition to being All-Star point guards.

Spoiler:

[nzahir]

Not nearly enough for Kemba. Hornets aren’t gonna do teams favors by diluting the return for 3 draft positions. Hell, Trey Lyles got Utah 11 spots.

Recent precedent for All-Star caliber PG’s is quite easily ~ #6 to #12 including several on expiring contracts and/or for multiple picks.

Also keep in mind Kemba’s salary-to-cap is an absurd 11.9% which in of itself is roughly a $15m cap “savings” (and production boost for capped constrained teams). His hold is even lower than the majority of All-Star salaries.

You do know Kemba has 1 year left and then will want the max right?

Kyrie, a much better guy with 2 years left, got moved for the 8th pick(nets pick seemed like it would be in 5-9 range before season), Jae Crowder, Zizic, and a very hurt/useless IT.

The 8th pick, cedi(as valuable as Jae imo), zizic, hill's expiring(last year is worth 1 million guaranteed) is a bit less than what Kyrie got, but Kyrie is more valuable obviously. Then you swap Batum's cancerous deal for Jr's deal, that costs you a lottery pick. Maybe then there is no need to do the batum part and its kemba for hill and the 8th pick.

Good point. I'd let Charlotte worry about Batum's "cancerous deal."

But I think the Cavs need more, and salaries dont work. Need a 3rd team to give the cavs some value at sg or forward. A guy like simmons or aminu. Will post 2 edits

The expiring angle is already baked into his value. There's also the possbilitiy that his ~ $19.5M hold works in Cleveland's favor.

Cleveland received the eventual #8 for Kyrie that at one time had top 3 possibilities -- no such possibilities exist for Portland and Charlotte in your propsosal. Plus Crowder + Zizic + 2nd while holding less leverage following Free Agency.

And Dragic pulled (2) 1sts....and Hill #12. Knight eventually lol #10? And (2) top 10 picks for Jrue Holiday. Lowry returned the eventual #12 (Adams).

But Kemba gets Charlotte an 11 for 8 swap and Lillard #8? Let's be real, the PG market is brisk in June and July for good reason. Unlike other positions, teams consider elite PG's as essential gets. It just so happens that Lillard and Kemba are elite shooters in addition to being All-Star point guards.

Spoiler:

Is new deal better? Dragic pulled 2 1sts, but they were protected to some extent and not as high. Knight deal a disaster. Jrue deal was an overpay

[stinger14]

Not nearly enough for Kemba. Hornets aren’t gonna do teams favors by diluting the return for 3 draft positions. Hell, Trey Lyles got Utah 11 spots.

Recent precedent for All-Star caliber PG’s is quite easily ~ #6 to #12 including several on expiring contracts and/or for multiple picks.

Also keep in mind Kemba’s salary-to-cap is an absurd 11.9% which in of itself is roughly a $15m cap “savings” (and production boost for capped constrained teams). His hold is even lower than the majority of All-Star salaries.

You do know Kemba has 1 year left and then will want the max right?

Kyrie, a much better guy with 2 years left, got moved for the 8th pick(nets pick seemed like it would be in 5-9 range before season), Jae Crowder, Zizic, and a very hurt/useless IT.

The 8th pick, cedi(as valuable as Jae imo), zizic, hill's expiring(last year is worth 1 million guaranteed) is a bit less than what Kyrie got, but Kyrie is more valuable obviously. Then you swap Batum's cancerous deal for Jr's deal, that costs you a lottery pick.

Maybe then there is no need to do the batum part and its kemba for hill and the 8th pick. But I think the Cavs need more, and salaries dont work. Need a 3rd team to give the cavs some value at sg or forward. A guy like simmons or aminu. Will post 2 edits

You make some valid points, but remember Isaiah Thomas was supposed to be an all star player coming back in the trade. The Cavs got fleeced in the deal because Thomas injury was worse than thought and he ended up being terrible. Crowder also looked like a completely different player under Brad Stevens. In the end, the Cavs got hosed because of results, and it is obvious that have missed Kyrie who could get his own shot and take some pressure from LeBron.

Also, Kyrie was asking to be traded, which slightly altered his value. Kemba is not asking, has given no indication he wants out, and is even building a house in Charlotte. Kemba would give the Cavs what they are missing in a guy who can get his own shot, and not make LeBron carry the whole load. He is not Kyrie, but he isn't far behind him and I believe he is the player that's game most resembles Kyrie. I also think Kemba will be perfectly happy playing second fiddle to LeBron. In fact, it would be interesting to see how good Kemba is when he isn't the focus of the defense.

[Brandon-Clyde]

The 8th pick, a mediocre player in George Hill and Osman does not bring a NBA first teamer like Lillard. It MIGHT get you CJ McCollum but even that might be doubtful

CJ is definitely not worth the 8th pick, 27 years old 25-30 million a year for the next 3 years and a poor defender. 8th pick(CJ was 10th), a nice young prospect, and a capable player who will be expiring (year 3 is 1 million guaranteed) is worth much more than CJ. Maybe its not worth Dame, but you guys aren't wining with this core anyways.

And who cares about 1st team. We all know when healthy, Curry, Kyrie, Cp3, are better point guards. I would even take WB over Dame depending on the team

CJ is a proven scorer who can get his own shot off. The fact that he was picked 10th is irrelevant at this point, his value is set by what he can do. He is young, a top 20 scorer in the league and while his contract is somewhat sizable I don't think it is negative.
Now in exchange you want to offer George Hill who will earn around $19 and 18 million each of the next two seasons with much less production(his contract can be consider negative) and Cedi Osman may be a fine player someday but his rookie season is nothing special

[Brandon-Clyde]

Your amended trade is again a no go from Portland. Portland is not trading Aminu for a guard while they still have CJ and Lillard and it would leave them with only Zach Collins and Caleb Swanigan at PF with Nurkic our starting center a RFA. I get it you want to improve Cleveland enough that Lebron will stay but you still need to consider what the other team wants and needs

[nzahir]

Your amended trade is again a no go from Portland. Portland is not trading Aminu for a guard while they still have CJ and Lillard and it would leave them with only Zach Collins and Caleb Swanigan at PF with Nurkic our starting center a RFA. I get it you want to improve Cleveland enough that Lebron will stay but you still need to consider what the other team wants and needs

What about the magic one?

That trade only happens if you move CJ for a forward or big man

[Mystical Apples]

You do know Kemba has 1 year left and then will want the max right?

Kyrie, a much better guy with 2 years left, got moved for the 8th pick(nets pick seemed like it would be in 5-9 range before season), Jae Crowder, Zizic, and a very hurt/useless IT.

The 8th pick, cedi(as valuable as Jae imo), zizic, hill's expiring(last year is worth 1 million guaranteed) is a bit less than what Kyrie got, but Kyrie is more valuable obviously. Then you swap Batum's cancerous deal for Jr's deal, that costs you a lottery pick. Maybe then there is no need to do the batum part and its kemba for hill and the 8th pick.

Good point. I'd let Charlotte worry about Batum's "cancerous deal."

But I think the Cavs need more, and salaries dont work. Need a 3rd team to give the cavs some value at sg or forward. A guy like simmons or aminu. Will post 2 edits

The expiring angle is already baked into his value. There's also the possbilitiy that his ~ $19.5M hold works in Cleveland's favor.

Cleveland received the eventual #8 for Kyrie that at one time had top 3 possibilities -- no such possibilities exist for Portland and Charlotte in your propsosal. Plus Crowder + Zizic + 2nd while holding less leverage following Free Agency.

And Dragic pulled (2) 1sts....and Hill #12. Knight eventually lol #10? And (2) top 10 picks for Jrue Holiday. Lowry returned the eventual #12 (Adams).

But Kemba gets Charlotte an 11 for 8 swap and Lillard #8? Let's be real, the PG market is brisk in June and July for good reason. Unlike other positions, teams consider elite PG's as essential gets. It just so happens that Lillard and Kemba are elite shooters in addition to being All-Star point guards.

Spoiler:

Is new deal better? Dragic pulled 2 1sts, but they were protected to some extent and not as high. Knight deal a disaster. Jrue deal was an overpay

You're new deal is closer. I have Kemba worth slightly less then #8. Ask for Kaminsky, swap Clarkson for Hill, cut Orlando, and balance accordingly. It opens the door to moving Kevin Love's production for a 3/4 wing. Maybe not immediately - if ever - but the option is there and frees up minutes for Nance too.

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure either of these players keep LBJ in CLE. Particularly CJ.

[MoneyTalks41890]

CJ isn't worth the 8th pick.