Clev Tank

[pipfan]

Clev has to blow it up. Can't lose that pick to ATL, and they really need some young talent.

1-Love to Port for Collins/Eturner/2019 #1
Port gets a big upgrade at the 4 and goes for it

2-Hill for BKnight and the Milw #1
Suns get a solid, vet PG to lead the young team, and free up cap space for next summer to go after max FA's

3-Korver to Philly for Bayless and Philly's top 20 protected 2019 pick
Big upgrade for Philly, and they save a little $

4-TThompson for Parsons and Memphis 2021 top 8 protected #1
Memphis gets a nice big who would fit their culture

Clev would suck-but that is the plan. They add some nice assets like Collins and 4 picks for the future, and they keep their pick

Much better than an unlikely 8th seed or just missing the playoffs and giving up a pick

[VCfor3]

Memphis says no quickly. We have Gasol plus JJJ who is our future center. DD is on the roster for now but likely isn't a future piece. Why would they trade what will likely be a good pick to get a guy who will likely be an overpaid backup for them?

[Stillwater]

CLE will not blow it up man...they absolutely should not tank and absolutely should forfeit the pick in 2019's weak ass draft class where they retain their own pick in 2020.Yes they will make moves to shed bad salary and receive decent players on longer contracts to teams looking for cap room next summer, but they will not be blowing it up anytime soon.

[HornetJail]

CLE will not blow it up man...they absolutely should not tank and absolutely should forfeit the pick in 2019's weak ass draft class where they retain their own pick in 2020.Yes they will make moves to shed bad salary and receive decent players on longer contracts to teams looking for cap room next summer, but they will not be blowing it up anytime soon.

The pick in question is top 10 protected in 2019, top 10 protected in 2020. If Cleveland is a bottom ten team both years (which I believe they probably will be with their current roster) then they only owe two 2nd rounders to Atlanta.

Cleveland gains A LOT more by being awful than they do by being mediocre

[AlexPresser]

I think the Frye signing makes it clear we're not gonna completely blow it up. At least not yet.

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[AlexPresser]

CLE will not blow it up man...they absolutely should not tank and absolutely should forfeit the pick in 2019's weak ass draft class where they retain their own pick in 2020.Yes they will make moves to shed bad salary and receive decent players on longer contracts to teams looking for cap room next summer, but they will not be blowing it up anytime soon.

The pick in question is top 10 protected in 2019, top 10 protected in 2020. If Cleveland is a bottom ten team both years (which I believe they probably will be with their current roster) then they only owe two 2nd rounders to Atlanta.

Cleveland gains A LOT more by being awful than they do by being mediocre

After going throw a tank job before, I don't wanna see it Again. I think tanking is overrated, don't wanna turn into another Sacramento Kings

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[MoneyTalks41890]

I think the Frye signing makes it clear we're not gonna completely blow it up. At least not yet.

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I mean I see Frye as more of a veteran presence. He’s not contributing to wins anymore.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Agree with Biz here Cavs should absolutely be tanking. They can easily stay in the bottom 10 and probably are even with this roster, but they can ensure it by moving guys they aren't planning to keep anyway for assets.

Cavs are squarely out of the luxury tax, so they have some room to take on bad deals that go into next year, but they shouldn't and shouldn't have to take longer deals than that. So once the pick to ATL turns into two seconds they will have a clean cap sheet and a couple high picks. All this next years drsft sucks business is premature, like it always is. Some stud wings at the top that Cleveland could def use and Bol would be pretty awesome as well. There's no reason to gift ATL a late lotto pick by trying to win games and then letting Love walk without getting anything for him.

I like 1 and 2 in the OP. Something like those deals makes a lot of sense. I like the Korver deal but I doubt PHi does it with Redick on board and KKs gtd 3.5 next year. But something similar to that.

Then I'd offer Hood a deal around 8 per for three years. It's worth the gamble. See if JR will take a buyout that involves moving his few million gtd off the books. Doubt he wants to stay and could be a lockerroom issue without Bron to cool him off. Then I'd try to deal TT to the Lakers. He's a good defensive big that Bron likes and he can switch against GS. Deng, Bonga, 2 2nds for TT.

Sexton/Knight
Hood/Clarkson
Osman/Bonga/Turner
Nance/Frye/Deng
Collins/Zizic

With a couple high picks and others picks from vet trades (high CLE picks in 19 and 20, POR 1st, MIL 1st).

[tester551]

1-Love to Port for Collins/Eturner/2019 #1
Port gets a big upgrade at the 4 and goes for it

Love to Portland has a lot of good potential. However, I would not include Collins in the trade.

My best & final offer would be ET, 2019 #1, & Cleveland's pick between Swanigan, Layman, or Gary Trent Jr.

[MoneyTalks41890]

1-Love to Port for Collins/Eturner/2019 #1
Port gets a big upgrade at the 4 and goes for it

Love to Portland has a lot of good potential. However, I would not include Collins in the trade.

My best & final offer would be ET, 2019 #1, & Cleveland's pick between Swanigan, Layman, or Gary Trent Jr.

Yeah that's not close to being close and I'm sure POR irl would offer more.

[Revenged25]

Agree with Biz here Cavs should absolutely be tanking. They can easily stay in the bottom 10 and probably are even with this roster, but they can ensure it by moving guys they aren't planning to keep anyway for assets.

Cavs are squarely out of the luxury tax, so they have some room to take on bad deals that go into next year, but they shouldn't and shouldn't have to take longer deals than that. So once the pick to ATL turns into two seconds they will have a clean cap sheet and a couple high picks. All this next years drsft sucks business is premature, like it always is. Some stud wings at the top that Cleveland could def use and Bol would be pretty awesome as well. There's no reason to gift ATL a late lotto pick by trying to win games and then letting Love walk without getting anything for him.

I like 1 and 2 in the OP. Something like those deals makes a lot of sense. I like the Korver deal but I doubt PHi does it with Redick on board and KKs gtd 3.5 next year. But something similar to that.

Then I'd offer Hood a deal around 8 per for three years. It's worth the gamble. See if JR will take a buyout that involves moving his few million gtd off the books. Doubt he wants to stay and could be a lockerroom issue without Bron to cool him off. Then I'd try to deal TT to the Lakers. He's a good defensive big that Bron likes and he can switch against GS. Deng, Bonga, 2 2nds for TT.

Sexton/Knight
Hood/Clarkson
Osman/Bonga/Turner
Nance/Frye/Deng
Collins/Zizic

With a couple high picks and others picks from vet trades (high CLE picks in 19 and 20, POR 1st, MIL 1st).

The roster isn't that bad currently, granted it looked worse than what it is due to being poor fits for LeBron-Ball, but I think they will surprise a lot of people, especially if they play with the offense going through Love. I could see Love putting up 24/12 up to the trade deadline and draw a lot of interest in teams, which at that point I think the Cavs would likely trade him and end up just missing the playoffs but still conveying the pick to the Hawks. Going straight back into a tank mentality will create a bad culture and might hurt the Cavs longer than being mediocre for a few years. They need to try and win so that guys like Osman/Zizic/Nance/Sexton can actually develop instead of just being put out there to lose.

[DowJones]

Agree with Biz here Cavs should absolutely be tanking. They can easily stay in the bottom 10 and probably are even with this roster, but they can ensure it by moving guys they aren't planning to keep anyway for assets.

Cavs are squarely out of the luxury tax, so they have some room to take on bad deals that go into next year, but they shouldn't and shouldn't have to take longer deals than that. So once the pick to ATL turns into two seconds they will have a clean cap sheet and a couple high picks. All this next years drsft sucks business is premature, like it always is. Some stud wings at the top that Cleveland could def use and Bol would be pretty awesome as well. There's no reason to gift ATL a late lotto pick by trying to win games and then letting Love walk without getting anything for him.

I like 1 and 2 in the OP. Something like those deals makes a lot of sense. I like the Korver deal but I doubt PHi does it with Redick on board and KKs gtd 3.5 next year. But something similar to that.

Then I'd offer Hood a deal around 8 per for three years. It's worth the gamble. See if JR will take a buyout that involves moving his few million gtd off the books. Doubt he wants to stay and could be a lockerroom issue without Bron to cool him off. Then I'd try to deal TT to the Lakers. He's a good defensive big that Bron likes and he can switch against GS. Deng, Bonga, 2 2nds for TT.

Sexton/Knight
Hood/Clarkson
Osman/Bonga/Turner
Nance/Frye/Deng
Collins/Zizic

With a couple high picks and others picks from vet trades (high CLE picks in 19 and 20, POR 1st, MIL 1st).

The roster isn't that bad currently, granted it looked worse than what it is due to being poor fits for LeBron-Ball, but I think they will surprise a lot of people, especially if they play with the offense going through Love. I could see Love putting up 24/12 up to the trade deadline and draw a lot of interest in teams, which at that point I think the Cavs would likely trade him and end up just missing the playoffs but still conveying the pick to the Hawks. Going straight back into a tank mentality will create a bad culture and might hurt the Cavs longer than being mediocre for a few years. They need to try and win so that guys like Osman/Zizic/Nance/Sexton can actually develop instead of just being put out there to lose.

So you say you are OK with the Cavs been mediocre for a few years. That’s fine, but then what? Do you think there is some natural progression coming from this roster and young talent where we eventually get from mediocre to top three or four in the East?

[Jaw]

Outside of Sexton Cavs don't have too much to be excited about in the future so I believe they should "tank". This teams ceiling isn't that high and Love is a major flight risk so if I were Cavs I'd cash in on him and make the most of their draft picks the next two years so that they'll have 3 young pieces that they can hopefully build around and create a team that can have sustained success. This scenario is a lot more attractive to me than being a middling team the next two years that maybe makes the playoffs then Love likely leaving and leaving the team in a situation where they just have Sexton to build around.

I don't see the Cavs accomplishing anything in the next 2 years that is worth keeping the team together.

[Skybox]

Orl offers OKC first round pick and Mozgov for Hill...shave a year off of contract and pick up a late first. Assuming Hill would not get grumpy like he did in Sacramento.

[Skybox]

Orl offers OKC first round pick and Mozgov for Hill...shave a year off of contract and pick up a late first. Assuming Hill would not get grumpy like he did in Sacramento.

my bad...both have 2 more years. How about Orlando adds an additional 2nd RP?

[Revenged25]

Outside of Sexton Cavs don't have too much to be excited about in the future so I believe they should "tank". This teams ceiling isn't that high and Love is a major flight risk so if I were Cavs I'd cash in on him and make the most of their draft picks the next two years so that they'll have 3 young pieces that they can hopefully build around and create a team that can have sustained success. This scenario is a lot more attractive to me than being a middling team the next two years that maybe makes the playoffs then Love likely leaving and leaving the team in a situation where they just have Sexton to build around.

I don't see the Cavs accomplishing anything in the next 2 years that is worth keeping the team together.

Well the Cavs also have Osman and Zizic that look promising and the Cavs are also high on what Nance brings to the table.

[Revenged25]

Agree with Biz here Cavs should absolutely be tanking. They can easily stay in the bottom 10 and probably are even with this roster, but they can ensure it by moving guys they aren't planning to keep anyway for assets.

Cavs are squarely out of the luxury tax, so they have some room to take on bad deals that go into next year, but they shouldn't and shouldn't have to take longer deals than that. So once the pick to ATL turns into two seconds they will have a clean cap sheet and a couple high picks. All this next years drsft sucks business is premature, like it always is. Some stud wings at the top that Cleveland could def use and Bol would be pretty awesome as well. There's no reason to gift ATL a late lotto pick by trying to win games and then letting Love walk without getting anything for him.

I like 1 and 2 in the OP. Something like those deals makes a lot of sense. I like the Korver deal but I doubt PHi does it with Redick on board and KKs gtd 3.5 next year. But something similar to that.

Then I'd offer Hood a deal around 8 per for three years. It's worth the gamble. See if JR will take a buyout that involves moving his few million gtd off the books. Doubt he wants to stay and could be a lockerroom issue without Bron to cool him off. Then I'd try to deal TT to the Lakers. He's a good defensive big that Bron likes and he can switch against GS. Deng, Bonga, 2 2nds for TT.

Sexton/Knight
Hood/Clarkson
Osman/Bonga/Turner
Nance/Frye/Deng
Collins/Zizic

With a couple high picks and others picks from vet trades (high CLE picks in 19 and 20, POR 1st, MIL 1st).

The roster isn't that bad currently, granted it looked worse than what it is due to being poor fits for LeBron-Ball, but I think they will surprise a lot of people, especially if they play with the offense going through Love. I could see Love putting up 24/12 up to the trade deadline and draw a lot of interest in teams, which at that point I think the Cavs would likely trade him and end up just missing the playoffs but still conveying the pick to the Hawks. Going straight back into a tank mentality will create a bad culture and might hurt the Cavs longer than being mediocre for a few years. They need to try and win so that guys like Osman/Zizic/Nance/Sexton can actually develop instead of just being put out there to lose.

So you say you are OK with the Cavs been mediocre for a few years. That’s fine, but then what? Do you think there is some natural progression coming from this roster and young talent where we eventually get from mediocre to top three or four in the East?

I think there is definitely progression available from Osman/Nance/Zizic with more playing time/opportunities. Zizic looked good the few times he got to play extended minutes and Osman showed flashes as well as just killing it in the summer league averaging like 20/8/4/3. Obviously its summer league but it does show that he has a lot more to show once he starts getting the minutes that LeBron rightly dominated. He's also been working hard with Korver on his shot and that will help a lot too.

Also with the eventual/likely trades of Korver/Love/Hill I expect the Cavs to get young prospects and/or picks in return, especially if they take on bad contracts in return.

[MoneyTalks41890]

The roster isn't that bad currently, granted it looked worse than what it is due to being poor fits for LeBron-Ball, but I think they will surprise a lot of people, especially if they play with the offense going through Love. I could see Love putting up 24/12 up to the trade deadline and draw a lot of interest in teams, which at that point I think the Cavs would likely trade him and end up just missing the playoffs but still conveying the pick to the Hawks. Going straight back into a tank mentality will create a bad culture and might hurt the Cavs longer than being mediocre for a few years. They need to try and win so that guys like Osman/Zizic/Nance/Sexton can actually develop instead of just being put out there to lose.

So you say you are OK with the Cavs been mediocre for a few years. That’s fine, but then what? Do you think there is some natural progression coming from this roster and young talent where we eventually get from mediocre to top three or four in the East?

I think there is definitely progression available from Osman/Nance/Zizic with more playing time/opportunities. Zizic looked good the few times he got to play extended minutes and Osman showed flashes as well as just killing it in the summer league averaging like 20/8/4/3. Obviously its summer league but it does show that he has a lot more to show once he starts getting the minutes that LeBron rightly dominated. He's also been working hard with Korver on his shot and that will help a lot too.

Also with the eventual/likely trades of Korver/Love/Hill I expect the Cavs to get young prospects and/or picks in return, especially if they take on bad contracts in return.

Obviously things can change but at the moment none of those guys has a ceiling beyond average starter. And I think that’s somewhat generous. Sexton is also a guy without a star ceiling probably, but a high floor, and FA signings are probably not the way to go and would be difficult.

And if you’re eventually going to trade the vets why wait until the deadline and add useless wins? I totally get winning culture but I don’t think it’s worth giving up a lotto pick for a few wins.

[pipfan]

I think I saw that Gilbert made season ticket holders pony up early, so the revenue hit is delayed some by a year-good move.

If they did my deals, their core is Sexton, Osman, Nance, Collins, Zubic (I would let Hood go). Not very good, but these deals offer some future picks too.

[Revenged25]

So you say you are OK with the Cavs been mediocre for a few years. That’s fine, but then what? Do you think there is some natural progression coming from this roster and young talent where we eventually get from mediocre to top three or four in the East?

I think there is definitely progression available from Osman/Nance/Zizic with more playing time/opportunities. Zizic looked good the few times he got to play extended minutes and Osman showed flashes as well as just killing it in the summer league averaging like 20/8/4/3. Obviously its summer league but it does show that he has a lot more to show once he starts getting the minutes that LeBron rightly dominated. He's also been working hard with Korver on his shot and that will help a lot too.

Also with the eventual/likely trades of Korver/Love/Hill I expect the Cavs to get young prospects and/or picks in return, especially if they take on bad contracts in return.

Obviously things can change but at the moment none of those guys has a ceiling beyond average starter. And I think that’s somewhat generous. Sexton is also a guy without a star ceiling probably, but a high floor, and FA signings are probably not the way to go and would be difficult.

And if you’re eventually going to trade the vets why wait until the deadline and add useless wins? I totally get winning culture but I don’t think it’s worth giving up a lotto pick for a few wins.

I think a culture is more important than a non-top 5 lotto pick. Even with the Cavs putting their tank foot forward by trading Love/Korver/Hill etc early on, they still arent in the bottom 5 of tank level squads IMO and would still be in a strange spot. Also the difference in a pick from 11-15 and a little later 1st, minimum of what Love gets in return as a pick isnt large normally. Now if you can say the cavs are guaranteed top 3 pick trading the vets then sure but you cant