Kawhi's package vs Kyrie's package

[Snakebites]

Are you asking us to compare how the Cavs package looked at the time or how good it actually ended up being?

Isaiah's injury issues were way worse than hoped and nobody knew Jae Crowder was going to start sucking as soon as he left Boston.

Compare it to how the Kyrie package looked at the time of the trade.

Not 20/20 hindsight. That’s why there is the word context in the OP.

Okay. Worse then.

Cavs had a perfect trading partner- a team that had an embarrassment of wealth in terms of medium-value assets they increasingly felt the need to consolidate, a need growing greater over time.

I don't see such a trading partner in terms of the wealth of assets (which gives more room to bargain). Kyrie also had a longer period of team control following the trade plus less specific and expressed desires with respect to free agency once that deal was up. That longer period of team control both made him more appealing to trade for AND eliminated the "let's just wait a year and try to sign him outright" option.

All of that more than cancels out the fact that Kyrie isn't as good as Kawhi (I view injury concerns as being problematic for both, so didn't factor that in as much).

[jbent87]

Similar. Better player but more uncertainty around the contract situation. Those two cancel each other out.

[wolves_89]

I think Leonard will return a package similar to what Irving got (when considering value at the time of the Kyrie trade). Since a huge chunk of Kyrie's trade package value evaporated, I'm guessing a Kawhi package will end up being better a couple of years down the road.

[rugbyrugger23]

Spurs should be begging for a bad contract attached to any Kawhi assets in. They re not a free agent destination, and have their books fairly tied up with LMA, Mills, Gasol big NG, Belinelli, and Bertans (am I forgetting someone?) -- bottomline they are not set for huge cap in 2019 offseason anyway with no superstar in which to recruit.

[cheese318]

I think it is going to be less than what Kyrie got the Cavs

Don’t think Kawhi will get traded. But if he somehow does get traded, have to guess that he won’t net a better package than Kyrie. Kyrie’s package was just so, so good.

Thomas was a legit star. Crowder was a great 3-and-D player. 2018 Brooklyn pick was likely to turn into a top 3 pick. Crazy good package.

That trade was awful for one reason only. LeBron is always in contention to win a title every year. Why trade for a 5’9” PG with one hip who declined surgery and was one year away from free agency. Gilbert valued that Nets pick as LeBron insurance. He was acting as a GM and Danny Ainge took advantage of him. The fact Jaylen Brown/Jayson Tatum was not involved in any trade was the reason why he lost. I would have hung up the phone if Ainge said they were untouchable. Find another team.

They should have swung for the fences and traded for a Batum/Howard or DeAndre Jordan at the deadline over the role players they got instead. Lots of money but they would have helped LeBron a lot more

[DeathLineup]

Okay. Worse then.

Cavs had a perfect trading partner- a team that had an embarrassment of wealth in terms of medium-value assets they increasingly felt the need to consolidate, a need growing greater over time.

I don't see such a trading partner in terms of the wealth of assets (which gives more room to bargain). Kyrie also had a longer period of team control following the trade plus less specific and expressed desires with respect to free agency once that deal was up. That longer period of team control both made him more appealing to trade for AND eliminated the "let's just wait a year and try to sign him outright" option.

All of that more than cancels out the fact that Kyrie isn't as good as Kawhi (I view injury concerns as being problematic for both, so didn't factor that in as much).

If Raptors are indeed in the "driver's seat" for Kawhi, then the return would absolutely be worse compared to Kyrie.

A whole lot worse.

[Pythagoras]

I think it is going to be less than what Kyrie got the Cavs

Don’t think Kawhi will get traded. But if he somehow does get traded, have to guess that he won’t net a better package than Kyrie. Kyrie’s package was just so, so good.

Thomas was a legit star. Crowder was a great 3-and-D player. 2018 Brooklyn pick was likely to turn into a top 3 pick. Crazy good package.

That trade was awful for one reason only. LeBron is always in contention to win a title every year. Why trade for a 5’9” PG with one hip who declined surgery and was one year away from free agency. Gilbert valued that Nets pick as LeBron insurance. He was acting as a GM and Danny Ainge took advantage of him. The fact Jaylen Brown/Jayson Tatum was not involved in any trade was the reason why he lost. I would have hung up the phone if Ainge said they were untouchable. Find another team.

They should have swung for the fences and traded for a Batum/Howard or DeAndre Jordan at the deadline over the role players they got instead. Lots of money but they would have helped LeBron a lot more

Based off what was known at the time the trade went down, there was no way anyone could have guessed that Tatum and Brown would have ended up being better win now pieces than IT.

[jimmy keys]

How do you think Kawhi's package will compare to Kyrie's package?

Cavaliers net Thomas, Crowder, Zizic, 2018 Brooklyn first round pick, 2020 Miami second round pick for Kyrie. The key pieces were Thomas, Crowder and Brooklyn's pick.

Context:
> Kawhi Leonard (present):

• 27 years old
• Under contract for 1 year
• Ongoing bizzare quad injury

> Kyrie Irving (2017):

• 25 years old
• Under contract for 2 years

> Isaiah Thomas (2017):

• 28 years old
• Under contract for 1 year
• Just finished 5th in MVP voting
• Ongoing concerning hip injury

> Jae Crowder (2017):

• 27 years old
• Under contract for 2 years
• Elite 3-and-D player
• Bargain contract

> 2018 Brooklyn first round pick (2017):

• Expected to be a top 5 pick

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare Kawhi's package with Paul George's package? Or did George become shy ever since he was catfished?


Seriously though it's a closer comparison. An all-star or potential all-star + a prospect + 1st rounder should get it done.

[cheese318]

Don’t think Kawhi will get traded. But if he somehow does get traded, have to guess that he won’t net a better package than Kyrie. Kyrie’s package was just so, so good.

Thomas was a legit star. Crowder was a great 3-and-D player. 2018 Brooklyn pick was likely to turn into a top 3 pick. Crazy good package.

That trade was awful for one reason only. LeBron is always in contention to win a title every year. Why trade for a 5’9” PG with one hip who declined surgery and was one year away from free agency. Gilbert valued that Nets pick as LeBron insurance. He was acting as a GM and Danny Ainge took advantage of him. The fact Jaylen Brown/Jayson Tatum was not involved in any trade was the reason why he lost. I would have hung up the phone if Ainge said they were untouchable. Find another team.

They should have swung for the fences and traded for a Batum/Howard or DeAndre Jordan at the deadline over the role players they got instead. Lots of money but they would have helped LeBron a lot more

Based off what was known at the time the trade went down, there was no way anyone could have guessed that Tatum and Brown would have ended up being better win now pieces than IT.

Are you seriously saying that? He played no defense and the warriors took advantage of Kyrie because of his defense so now IT would have somehow not caused any issues. He had one hip. How would you trade a top 15-20 player in Kyrie with two years of control without getting one of the best prospects from that team. Come on now


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[Pythagoras]

That trade was awful for one reason only. LeBron is always in contention to win a title every year. Why trade for a 5’9” PG with one hip who declined surgery and was one year away from free agency. Gilbert valued that Nets pick as LeBron insurance. He was acting as a GM and Danny Ainge took advantage of him. The fact Jaylen Brown/Jayson Tatum was not involved in any trade was the reason why he lost. I would have hung up the phone if Ainge said they were untouchable. Find another team.

They should have swung for the fences and traded for a Batum/Howard or DeAndre Jordan at the deadline over the role players they got instead. Lots of money but they would have helped LeBron a lot more

Based off what was known at the time the trade went down, there was no way anyone could have guessed that Tatum and Brown would have ended up being better win now pieces than IT.

Are you seriously saying that? He played no defense and the warriors took advantage of Kyrie because of his defense so now IT would have somehow not caused any issues. He had one hip. How would you trade a top 15-20 player in Kyrie with two years of control without getting one of the best prospects from that team. Come on now


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Yes I’m seriously saying that. IT was coming off a season in which he finished top 5 in MVP voting and was the best player on team that made the conf finals. It’s revisionist history in the extreme to act like he wasn’t the best win now piece they could get from the Cs.

[cheese318]

Based off what was known at the time the trade went down, there was no way anyone could have guessed that Tatum and Brown would have ended up being better win now pieces than IT.

Are you seriously saying that? He played no defense and the warriors took advantage of Kyrie because of his defense so now IT would have somehow not caused any issues. He had one hip. How would you trade a top 15-20 player in Kyrie with two years of control without getting one of the best prospects from that team. Come on now


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Yes I’m seriously saying that. IT was coming off a season in which he finished top 5 in MVP voting and was the best player on team that made the conf finals. It’s revisionist history in the extreme to act like he wasn’t the best win now piece they could get from the Cs.

He had one hip. He played under Brad Stevens who hid his deficiencies as much as possible. Plus everything ran through him. How would that work with LBJ? It was deemed a failure before he even got there because he couldn’t play till January and was never healthy. Dan Gilbert basically told LBJ to get bent if he would not resign. If IT was 100% healthy than maybe you could pass it as a okay trade but an awful fit. The fact Gilbert didn’t make sure that if the pick didn’t land in the top five they get the kings pick added. I would have demanded such as Kyries value is so much higher than you actually realize but was sold for 20 cents on the dollar. All these executives keep making Ainge look like an evil genius

[hoosierdaddy34]

I saw Eric Pincus and Kevin O’Conner spitballing back and forth on Twitter. The jist being that they don’t believe the Lakers have Ingram, Kuzma or Hart on the table for the Spurs. They are very sold on just waiting for the 2019 free agent class and keeping everyone.

Considering every other team just views him as a rental, I’m not sure how this could get much worse for the Spurs.

[NoZoLakers]

Tor might be in the "driver seat" but Spurs still got controll of the steering wheel lol

[NYG]

Who are the best players/assets that are rumored to have been fair game for Kawhi as of right now?