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Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:56 pm
by HartfordWhalers

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:51 am
by shrink
Interesting that Russell Westbrook made both of the hosts’ Five Worst Contracts list, but we didn’t even have him as an honorable mention back when we did this in December.

His next four years look like this:

$38,178,000 $41,006,000 $43,848,000 $46,662,000

.. made worse by the final year being a player option, plus he has a full 15% Trade Kicker,

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue May 7, 2019 4:50 pm
by bran muffin
The original list is outdated. It should be updated in time for the off season, when trade activity is about to resume. Here are the worst contracts for the 2019 season and beyond:



Worst Long-Term Contracts

    John Wall ($38M)
    $169M over 4 years
    Age 29 to 32
    Torn Achilles

    Chris Paul ($39M)
    $124M over 3 years
    Age 34 to 36
    Oldest Player on this list.

    Andrew Wiggins ($27M)
    $121M over 4 years
    Age 24 to 27
    Youngest Player on this list.

    Russell Westbrook ($38M)
    $170M over 4 years
    Age 31 to 35
    He will be a problem when asked to accept a roleplayer demotion. Like Melo and Iverson.

    Kevin Love ($30M)
    $120M over 4 years
    Age 31 to 34
    Averaged 47 healthy games the past 3 years. Now he's 31.

    Blake Griffin ($34M)
    $110M over 3 years
    Age 30 to 32
    Averaged 59 healthy games the past 5 years. Now he's 30.




Worst 2-Year Contracts

    Gordon Hayward ($33M)
    $67M over 2 years
    Age 29 to 30

    Nicolas Batum ($26M)
    $53M over 2 years
    Age 30 to 31

    Tim Hardaway Jr ($20M)
    $39M over 2 years
    Age 27 to 28

    Gorgui Dieng ($17M)
    $34M over 2 years
    Age 29 to 30

    Evan Fournier ($17M)
    $34M over 2 years
    Age 27 to 28

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue May 7, 2019 5:24 pm
by yooboy551
Spam Deleted -- Chuck

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue May 7, 2019 6:18 pm
by Dr Positivity
My list as of this summer

1. John Wall
2. Andrew Wiggins
3. Nicolas Batum
4. Gorgui Dieng
5. James Johnson
6. Dion Waiters
7. Tim Hardaway, Jr
8. Chris Paul
9. Russell Westbrook
10. Cristiano Felicio

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:26 pm
by Dat2U
1. Andrew Wiggins. People underestimate just how bad a player he has become. I think the Wolves would have to give up multiple picks and assets just to move him.

2. Chris Paul. He's clearly in his decline. What keeps him above Wiggins is that even washed, he's still significantly better.

3. John Wall. Wizards shouldn't even consider moving him until he returns in 2020. If he looks okay, he'll move further down this list b/c he's still young and good enough to contribute.

4. Nicolas Batum. He plays like he's set for life. Not horrible, just very indifferent.

5. Kevin Love. Ugly contract but still useful player.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:54 am
by righterwriter
1) Gordon Hayward-- $33M/yr for a gimpy guy who averages 11ppg and has a horrible shooting percentage. Also happens to play the same position as their two best players (Tatum/Hayward). Just a woefully bad contract.
2) Nic Batum-- like Hayward, but at least shoots the ball well and isn't limited as much due to injury, and is making $7M/yr less. Still a killer.
3) John Wall-- monstrous $45M/yr contract that will be the worst in the NBA if he doesn't round back into form post-injury. At least he is still a 20/9 guy if he can regain his form.
4) Chris Paul-- definitely on the downside of his career with more injuries expected to come and at $41M/yr for three more years...nobody wants that

Other than that, I don't see any absolutely horrible contracts as the overpaid guys like Kevin Love can still play and guys like Parsons and Biyombo are in the last year of the deals, so could even become assets in a trade.

These four though, especially Hayward, are toxic.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:16 am
by GopherIt!
Dat2U wrote:1. Andrew Wiggins. People underestimate just how bad a player he has become.


actually, people are way over reacting.

people ignore how butlers presence hurt him significantly. too much overlap in skillset & not enough touches to go around.

expect more post ups and drives like prior to jb’s arrival. that will also help him get FTAs again.
he will have a much better season without butler around for sure.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:16 pm
by KuruptedCav
These two are immediately two of the worst contracts...
Khris Middleton: 5yr @ $178 million
Tobias Harris: 5 yrs @ $180 million

These could go bad quickly due to injury risks...
Klay Thompson: 5yrs @ $190 million; Coming off a torn ACL, 29 years old
Kevin Durant: 4 yrs @ $164 million; Coming off a torn achilles, 30 years old
Kristaps Porzingas: 5 yrs @ $158 million: 62 games per year in first 3 years.
Kyrie Irving: 4 yrs @ $141 million; 63.5 games per year throughout career

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Mon Jul 1, 2019 6:09 pm
by old skool
KuruptedCav wrote:These two are immediately two of the worst contracts...
Khris Middleton: 5yr @ $178 million
Tobias Harris: 5 yrs @ $180 million

These could go bad quickly due to injury risks...
Klay Thompson: 5yrs @ $190 million; Coming off a torn ACL, 29 years old
Kevin Durant: 4 yrs @ $164 million; Coming off a torn achilles, 30 years old
Kristaps Porzingas: 5 yrs @ $158 million: 62 games per year in first 3 years.
Kyrie Irving: 4 yrs @ $141 million; 63.5 games per year throughout career


If Khris Middleton and Malcolm Brogdon both maintain the same level of statistical production for their soon to be signed free agent contracts that they have had for the last two seasons in points, rebounds, assists, and steals, Middleton will be paid less per each statistical unit than Brodgon. Middleton will be paid more total dollars, but he will generate even more total production.

Middleton has been more productive in each of these categories over the last two seasons:

Points 3059 to 1626
Rebounds 890 to 444
Assists 659 to 357
Steals 199 to 87

Brogdon is a good player but Middleton is much more productive. Brodgon is hurt a lot.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Mon Jul 1, 2019 6:29 pm
by KuruptedCav
old skool wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:These two are immediately two of the worst contracts...
Khris Middleton: 5yr @ $178 million
Tobias Harris: 5 yrs @ $180 million

These could go bad quickly due to injury risks...
Klay Thompson: 5yrs @ $190 million; Coming off a torn ACL, 29 years old
Kevin Durant: 4 yrs @ $164 million; Coming off a torn achilles, 30 years old
Kristaps Porzingas: 5 yrs @ $158 million: 62 games per year in first 3 years.
Kyrie Irving: 4 yrs @ $141 million; 63.5 games per year throughout career


If Khris Middleton and Malcolm Brogdon both maintain the same level of statistical production for their soon to be signed free agent contracts that they have had for the last two seasons in points, rebounds, assists, and steals, Middleton will be paid less per each statistical unit than Brodgon. Middleton will be paid more total dollars, but he will generate even more total production.

Middleton has been more productive in each of these categories over the last two seasons:

Points 3059 to 1626
Rebounds 890 to 444
Assists 659 to 357
Steals 199 to 87

Brogdon is a good player but Middleton is much more productive. Brodgon is hurt a lot.


I'm not sure what Brogdon has to do with Middleton. 5 years is the peak risk point, max dollars make outperformance unlikely, the higher the CapValue the fewer trade scenarios exist. Middleton now has a top-25 salary, he's not a top-25 player.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Thu Jul 4, 2019 10:33 pm
by HotelVitale
KuruptedCav wrote:[I'm not sure what Brogdon has to do with Middleton. 5 years is the peak risk point, max dollars make outperformance unlikely, the higher the CapValue the fewer trade scenarios exist. Middleton now has a top-25 salary, he's not a top-25 player.


That's a goofy way to evaluate a good/bad contract. If Harris and Middleton both play at around their recent peaks for the next 5 years, their teams will be totally happy with the contract and they'll both be easily tradeable. Those are the only real tests for a 'bad' contract at all and they'd pass them easily.

Every year there are many players who make big money and are just solid, above average starters who fit a need for their team. Are Jrue, McCollum, Steven Adams, etc horrible contracts in your book?

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:26 pm
by gerrit4
HotelVitale wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:[I'm not sure what Brogdon has to do with Middleton. 5 years is the peak risk point, max dollars make outperformance unlikely, the higher the CapValue the fewer trade scenarios exist. Middleton now has a top-25 salary, he's not a top-25 player.


That's a goofy way to evaluate a good/bad contract. If Harris and Middleton both play at around their recent peaks for the next 5 years, their teams will be totally happy with the contract and they'll both be easily tradeable. Those are the only real tests for a 'bad' contract at all and they'd pass them easily.

Every year there are many players who make big money and are just solid, above average starters who fit a need for their team. Are Jrue, McCollum, Steven Adams, etc horrible contracts in your book?


I think the Middleton contract could be fine. He's not worth those dollars, but he is such a versatile player (can shoot, defend, create his own shot, great teammate) that every team in the league would get better having him added to their roster (ignoring contract for a second). Tobias is a bit riskier, because I think he needs the ball more to be effective.

Both contracts remind me a bit of the Rashard Lewis contract from years ago. It was ripped as a bad contract, yet when Orlando signed him they went from a mediocre team to a contender that made the finals.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:06 pm
by HotelVitale
gerrit4 wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:[I'm not sure what Brogdon has to do with Middleton. 5 years is the peak risk point, max dollars make outperformance unlikely, the higher the CapValue the fewer trade scenarios exist. Middleton now has a top-25 salary, he's not a top-25 player.
That's a goofy way to evaluate a good/bad contract. If Harris and Middleton both play at around their recent peaks for the next 5 years, their teams will be totally happy with the contract and they'll both be easily tradeable. Those are the only real tests for a 'bad' contract at all and they'd pass them easily. Every year there are many players who make big money and are just solid, above average starters who fit a need for their team. Are Jrue, McCollum, Steven Adams, etc horrible contracts in your book?
I think the Middleton contract could be fine. He's not worth those dollars, but he is such a versatile player (can shoot, defend, create his own shot, great teammate) that every team in the league would get better having him added to their roster (ignoring contract for a second). Tobias is a bit riskier, because I think he needs the ball more to be effective. Both contracts remind me a bit of the Rashard Lewis contract from years ago. It was ripped as a bad contract, yet when Orlando signed him they went from a mediocre team to a contender that made the finals.

Harris was coveted because he's a really good catch and shoot guy, in addition to being able to create some for himself, drive, and do pn'r. With the exception of the defense--which Middleton is also not at all known for--your description of KM's value sounds just like Harris'.

But I hear you and think that Tobias could easily end up as a meh contract, just hoping he's on the right side of the 'not great but worth it' line.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:18 pm
by loserX
Unstickying this...great discussion, but the landscape has changed now :) Thanks all.

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:19 pm
by BullyKing
loserX wrote:Unstickying this...great discussion, but the landscape has changed now :) Thanks all.


Hasn't really changed that much. Just put Rozier at the top and slide everyone else down 1 spot. Kidding (sort of).

Re: T&T board top 10 worst contracts - Final list

Posted: Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:28 pm
by wolves_89
shrink wrote:Interesting that Russell Westbrook made both of the hosts’ Five Worst Contracts list, but we didn’t even have him as an honorable mention back when we did this in December.

His next four years look like this:

$38,178,000 $41,006,000 $43,848,000 $46,662,000

.. made worse by the final year being a player option, plus he has a full 15% Trade Kicker,


I think the reason Westbrook didn't make the list is because no one was really looking at him as a guy who might be on the move, so it didn't matter how bad the contract might be. The Thunder signed him and George to be the core of the team through 2021-22 season and that seemed fine. Since OKC had a plan and nobody saw the George trade coming, everyone kind of looked past just how awful the Westbrook deal really is. It's not until you start to consider what trading for Westbrook means that people really start to realize that his age coupled with contract size/length are extremely unattractive, like top 3-5 worst contract in the league unattractive.