Phoenix/Charlotte Swapp

jredsaz · Post #1 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:36 am

Phoenix receives Marvin William's, top 10 protected 2020 1st

Charlotte receives TJ Warren, Elle Okobo

Phoenix secures a legit stretch four who can hold his own on the defensive end. Get a much needed veteran in the rotation. Add an expiring deal that could be used along with the pick and other assets for a splash move at the deadline.

Charlotte wants to improve around Kemna and they need more scoring. Obviously hope that Monk and Bridges improve but Warren is a 18 to 20 ppg guy now. This would also allow them to more easily get under the tax with a max Kemba contract on the books.

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Fo-Real · Post #2 » by **Fo-Real** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:30 pm

would rather start Warren at Pf (AND I DONT WANT THAT) over the corpse of Marvin. No more tweener converts for Phx pfs, get a real banger, defender long pf next to Ayton. If Toronto gets lucky enough to retain the services of Leonard and Gasol their payroll will start to spiral outta control. Would there be a need for them to dump Ibakas salary to make room? :pray:

Crives · Post #3 » by **Crives** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:07 pm

Problem is that pick next year is not going to convey for a long time if Hornets lose Kemba.

Post #4 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:41 pm

Fo-Real wrote::noway: would rather start Warren at Pf (AND I DONT WANT THAT) over the corpse of Marvin. No more tweener converts for Phx pfs, get a real banger, defender long pf next to Ayton. If Toronto gets lucky enough to retain the services of Leonard and Gasol their payroll will start to spiral outta control. Would there be a need for them to dump Ibakas salary to make room?

This deal isn't about Williams the player. OP wants out of the Warren deal and wants to get a draft asset on top of it.

Problem is I don't see why Charlotte does this. Warren doesn't do anything meaningful to help them win now so why give up future flexibility and draft capital to still be at best a fringe playoff team if Kemba stays. And if he leaves they need to bottom out so the deal makes less sense.

A target in a Warren deal needs to be a capped out team looking to add bench scoring and willing to trade an expiring and maybe a minor asset for him(top a pick that lightly protected).

Post #5 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:47 pm

No thanks.

Fo-Real · Post #6 » by **Fo-Real** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:49 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Fo-Real wrote::noway: would rather start Warren at Pf (AND I DONT WANT THAT) over the corpse of Marvin. No more tweener converts for Phx pfs, get a real banger, defender long pf next to Ayton. If Toronto gets lucky enough to retain the services of Leonard and Gasol their payroll will start to spiral outta control. Would there be a need for them to dump Ibakas salary to make room?

This deal isn't about Williams the player. OP wants out of the Warren deal and wants to get a draft asset on top of it.

Problem is I don't see why Charlotte does this. Warren doesn't do anything meaningful to help them win now so why give up future flexibility and draft capital to still be at best a fringe playoff team if Kemba stays. And if he leaves they need to bottom out so the deal makes less sense.

A target in a Warren deal needs to be a capped out team looking to add bench scoring and willing to trade an expiring and maybe a minor asset for him(top a pick that lightly protected).

I didnt see it as wanting out of the Warren deal, his deal is great. I thought it's a ploy to turn Warren into a different asset (a pick) that fits better on a team filled with small forwards. Hopefully he will respond and clarify.

HornetJail · Post #7 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:05 pm

I don't see Warren as a big enough needle-mover to trade the 1st and further jam up our cap situation. Warren as a second option is more or less like having Jeremy Lamb as a second option, except he misses way more playing time per season, which is very worrisome

Resistance · Post #8 » by **Resistance** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:19 pm

This isn't a trade that Charlotte should do.

jredsaz · Post #9 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:53 pm

Crives wrote:Problem is that pick next year is not going to convey for a long time if Hornets lose Kemba.

I meant to preface it with the Hornets resign Kemba. This is a post tampering period trade I guess you would call it. Lol

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jredsaz · Post #10 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:05 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Fo-Real wrote::noway: would rather start Warren at Pf (AND I DONT WANT THAT) over the corpse of Marvin. No more tweener converts for Phx pfs, get a real banger, defender long pf next to Ayton. If Toronto gets lucky enough to retain the services of Leonard and Gasol their payroll will start to spiral outta control. Would there be a need for them to dump Ibakas salary to make room?

This deal isn't about Williams the player. OP wants out of the Warren deal and wants to get a draft asset on top of it.

Problem is I don't see why Charlotte does this. Warren doesn't do anything meaningful to help them win now so why give up future flexibility and draft capital to still be at best a fringe playoff team if Kemba stays. And if he leaves they need to bottom out so the deal makes less sense.

A target in a Warren deal needs to be a capped out team looking to add bench scoring and willing to trade an expiring and maybe a minor asset for him(top a pick that lightly protected).

No. I am not looking to get out of that deal. I want a better defender at the four who has experience playing there. The "Warren is in a bad contract theory" crew is flat wrong. While Willians isnt a lock down guy or anything he has better advanced numbers on that side of the floor across the board.

And I disagree on Charlotte. Warren provides exactly what they need. Charlotte needs another scoring option. Desperately. He can score from anywhere on the floor. He is elite moving off of the ball. His three point shot has improved both in form and percentage. He may never shoot over 40% from deep again but its highly unlikely he drops below 35%

For the Suns, this is about getting more proven rotation vets, balancing the roster, and getting an asset for a future trade.

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jredsaz · Post #11 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:09 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:I don't see Warren as a big enough needle-mover to trade the 1st and further jam up our cap situation. Warren as a second option is more or less like having Jeremy Lamb as a second option, except he misses way more playing time per season, which is very worrisome

He is a better player on a lower deal with longterm control. He is a hometown kid who has consistantly been underrated around here.

Further, he helps your talent to cap situation over the next couple of years. With a Maxed out Kemba, the cap situation isnt going to be great.

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Post #12 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:10 pm

He doesn't have to be a "bad" contract for the Suns to want to move on from him. He's a fine scorer who offers very little else. That's great if you are a good team who needs a bench scorer but for a team like the Suns starved for difference makers they'd be better served spending that money on said difference makers or on role players who complement the guys they believe to be their core. Again that's not really what Warren does.

And would prime Kevin Martin be saving the Hornets? Would Tim Hardaway Jr? Would Evan Fournier? Nah. So why will Warren? He is what he is. He's not moving their needle so they shouldn't be giving up assets to get him.

jredsaz · Post #13 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:10 pm

bwgood77 wrote:No thanks.

I figured that. You're a huge Warren fan. I just dont like his fit on this team.

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jredsaz · Post #14 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:He doesn't have to be a "bad" contract for the Suns to want to move on from him. He's a fine scorer who offers very little else. That's great if you are a good team who needs a bench scorer but for a team like the Suns starved for difference makers they'd be better served spending that money on said difference makers or on role players who complement the guys they believe to be their core. Again that's not really what Warren does.

And would prime Kevin Martin be saving the Hornets? Would Tim Hardaway Jr? Would Evan Fournier? Nah. So why will Warren? He is what he is. He's not moving their needle so they shouldn't be giving up assets to get him.

First, it's not a deal that will that would cost the Suns space. It would be done after the first waves of free agency after they used whatever space is made available.

Second, he is not a guy who will make the Hornets an Eastern contender the next few years. But does he move the needle enough to make them a competitive playoff team? Yes. He fits great with passers like Batum and Kemba. Particularly next to a ball dominate Kemba.

Your bench role/scoring take isnt accurate. However, staggering his minutes with and without Kemba will help their team a lot.

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Post #15 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:33 am

Yeah, I think Charlotte says no and Phoenix should probably say yes.

Damkac · Post #16 » by **Damkac** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:22 pm

jredsaz wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:No thanks.
I figured that. You're a huge Warren fan. I just dont like his fit on this team.

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He certainly don't fit on G-League level team that is Suns outside him, Booker and maybe 2-3 more players.

Saberestar · Post #17 » by **Saberestar** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:27 pm

No way the Suns do that trade.

Marvin Williams is a worse player and way older than Warren and a Top 10 protected pick is useless for us because we have so many young players and a Top 7 pick coming already this summer and two first round picks (Mil pick) in 2020.

Saberestar · Post #18 » by **Saberestar** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:35 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Fo-Real wrote::noway: would rather start Warren at Pf (AND I DONT WANT THAT) over the corpse of Marvin. No more tweener converts for Phx pfs, get a real banger, defender long pf next to Ayton. If Toronto gets lucky enough to retain the services of Leonard and Gasol their payroll will start to spiral outta control. Would there be a need for them to dump Ibakas salary to make room?

This deal isn't about Williams the player. OP wants out of the Warren deal and wants to get a draft asset on top of it.

Problem is I don't see why Charlotte does this. Warren doesn't do anything meaningful to help them win now so why give up future flexibility and draft capital to still be at best a fringe playoff team if Kemba stays. And if he leaves they need to bottom out so the deal makes less sense.

A target in a Warren deal needs to be a capped out team looking to add bench scoring and willing to trade an expiring and maybe a minor asset for him(top a pick that lightly protected).
No. I am not looking to get out of that deal. I want a better defender at the four who has experience playing there. The "Warren is in a bad contract theory" crew is flat wrong. While Willians isnt a lock down guy or anything he has better advanced numbers on that side of the floor across the board.

And I disagree on Charlotte. Warren provides exactly what they need. Charlotte needs another scoring option. Desperately. He can score from anywhere on the floor. He is elite moving off of the ball. His three point shot has improved both in form and percentage. He may never shoot over 40% from deep again but its highly unlikely he drops below 35%

For the Suns, this is about getting more proven rotation vets, balancing the roster, and getting an asset for a future trade.

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Do you honestly think that Marvin Williams can be better on the Suns than Ariza was during his time with the team?

Look at Marvin's age. Look at his rim protection (non existent). Look at his rebounding. And he is an overpaid expiring...we already have one in Tyler Johnson.He is not the PF that we need at the expense of losing an important player on a good long-term contract.

jredsaz · Post #19 » by **jredsaz** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:56 am

I think he can be better than Ariza was last year next year. He is a better defender, can stretch the floor, and is a big expiring. Plus it comes with a pick.

Would I actually pull the trigger on this? Probably not. It would depend on what happens with the draft and free agency. Also would depend on if Beal gets moved.

It's a reliable vet who can help facilitate a bigger deal at the deadline along with the pick. I think for a rebuilding team, like the Wiz for instance if they move Beal, would rather have an expiring and picks than Warren.

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jredsaz · Post #20 » by **jredsaz** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:57 am

Saberestar wrote:No way the Suns do that trade.

Marvin Williams is a worse player and way older than Warren and a Top 10 protected pick is useless for us because we have so many young players and a Top 7 pick coming already this summer and two first round picks (Mil pick) in 2020.

The pick would be trade amo.

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