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Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:45 pm
by jayu70
Adams, Roberson #21 to Atlanta for Bazemore, Len and #44.
OKC shaves luxury tax and get 2 servicable players with expiring contracts.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:49 pm
by Texas Chuck
jayu70 wrote:Adams, Roberson #21 to Atlanta for Bazemore, Len and #44.
OKC shaves luxury tax and get 2 servicable players with expiring contracts.


OKC is giving up by far the best player and the best pick. And the title of the thread is about them in absolute win now mode, not cost cutting mode.

Hard to see OKC paying Atlanta to take Adams off their hands like this in light of that.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:05 pm
by babyjax13
Monky15 wrote:Adams and #21 to Sacramento for Bogdanovic, Ferrel. Kings wanted more rebounding and Adams helps with that while adding a 1st.

Schroder to Minnesota for Dieng, Saric. Wolves do it to turn Dieng's mainly dead salary into a rotation player while saving some money.

PPat, Diallo to Utah for Favors. Jazz do it clear cap space for Russel or Butler. Pick up 2 players for the same as what Favors was guaranteed for. Diallo could be a real steal with Utah's player development.

Westbrook / Ferrel
Bogdanovic / Ferguson
George / Robertson / Nader
Saric / Grant / Noel
Favors / Dieng / Noel

Still have taxpayer exception for someone.


Utah would probably rather not guarantee Favors#' salary than take back PPat.we especially don't want to improve a divisional rival.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm
by shrink
meekrab wrote:
Neeva wrote:
Slava wrote:
If there’s a player that ticks all the boxes for a presti target, its Wiggins.

Wiggins is always a monster playing at Chesapeake Energy Arena, not sure why but he just is lol.

I mean, he's had good games and stinkers, just like anywhere else?

Thanks for posting that. I remembered it the same way as Neeva, but it may be just the primacy effect, since he’s played well there since 2017.

Now, it’s a ridiculously small sample, but in four games at OKC, the Wolves have gone 3-1 on the road, and Wiggins was a key component, including hitting a game winner last year. His stats have been FG 51.3%, 3P 43.5%, 6.5 RB, 3.5 AST, 30 PPG. He was actually driving and taking contact last game (16 of 18 FT). These are definitely uncharacteristic of Wiggins, so perhaps that’s why those recent games have stood out.

EDIT: And as a warning to OKC posters, this is also what makes him so frustrating for fans. He has the ability to do this every game - and he only teases you by doing it once in a while. I think it’d be easier to deal with if he was simply bad all the time.

I generally poo poo all these Wiggins threads made by non-MIN posters, because I think his contract is so bad, it would cost too much for MIN to move him, and they need to invest in upside, especially with Rojas coming in. However, with Woj’s post, I’d actually be curious about a Wiggins deal with Schroeder involved.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 pm
by MoneyTalks41890
shrink wrote:
meekrab wrote:
Neeva wrote:Wiggins is always a monster playing at Chesapeake Energy Arena, not sure why but he just is lol.

I mean, he's had good games and stinkers, just like anywhere else?

Thanks for posting that. I remembered it the same way, but it may be just the primacy effect, since he’s played well there since 2017.

Now, it’s a ridiculously small sample, but in four games at OKC, the Wolves have gone 3-1 on the road, and Wiggins was a key component, including hitting a game winner last year. His stats have been FG 51.3%, 3P 43.5%, 6.5 RB, 3.5 AST, 30 PPG. He was actually driving and taking contact last game (16 of 18 FT). These are definitely uncharacteristic of Wiggins, so perhaps that’s why those recent games have stood out.


Presti is a stats guy but more than that he loves potential and follows his eye. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Presti's draft evaluation of Wiggins and the more recent games where Wiggins went off are what he's using to evaluate the guy.

Saw something like this earlier, but if OKC is willing to keep paying ridiculous amounts of money to not win a title then:

Schroder, Roberson for Wiggins, Saric

Then maybe a trade for ETwan Moore with 21?

Russ/Moore
Wiggins/Ferg/Diallo
PG/Nader/Burton
Saric/Grant
Adams/(FA)

That's a better team, but still needs veterans that can play C, SF, and maybe even some point.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:20 pm
by MoneyTalks41890
Texas Chuck wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Adams, Roberson #21 to Atlanta for Bazemore, Len and #44.
OKC shaves luxury tax and get 2 servicable players with expiring contracts.


OKC is giving up by far the best player and the best pick. And the title of the thread is about them in absolute win now mode, not cost cutting mode.

Hard to see OKC paying Atlanta to take Adams off their hands like this in light of that.


Yeah that's not happening. Adams is limited, but he's also very good at what he does. If these reports are true, trading Adams for a downgrade is not the likely path.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:26 pm
by ChettheJet
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:OKC out: Schroder, Roberson, PPat, Ferg, Diallo, 21
OKC in: Love, Dunn, Felicio

CLE out: Love
CLE in: Roberson, Ferg, 21, 38

CHI out: Dunn, Felicio, 38
CHI in: Schroder, PPat, Diallo


Only partially good for the Bulls. They're helping OKC go all in with get an excellent player and CLE gets a pair of useful players and 2 picks. The Bulls take Schroder's big contract and hope he turns into the PG they need, Diallo who they don't need at all and Patterson who may or may not be better than a backup 4 they can get in free agency. Either the Bulls keep #38 or they take Ferguson and let CLE take Diallo. Again, they're helping other teams get picks and players that can improve their roster and the Bulls are about breaking even on salary and taking the risk in the 'unrealized potential' of Schroder, for their trouble.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:29 pm
by shrink
I would add that I’ve seen this before, with the Timberwolves ten years ago.

Every year, Kevin Garnett would drag a bunch of mediocre and often-injured players to 50 wins, and then the team would lose in the playoffs. Every year, the orders were to “win at all costs,” so that the team didn’t waste a season of KG in his prime. Unfortunately, with long, untradable contracts on average players, no cap room, non-lotto picks, and a total lack of trade assets, the Wolves were forced to gamble on riskier and riskier players who had upside, but had little trade value, like an incendiary Ricky Davis and an Injury-prone Mark Blount. When these guys eventually failed, the Wolves future looked bleak.

However, I mention this because I want to give the Thunder posters some hope. Eventually things got better, with the addition of Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. It was brief, but the Wolves have a much better GM in Sam Presti than the Wolves ever had. The key here is that the team already has the superstar talent - that’s the hardest part of making a contender. Hopefully you guys can make some moves to find upside talent to win now. Good luck.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:31 pm
by Andre Roberstan
Scoot McGroot wrote:
the_process wrote:Adams, Ferguson, 21, and a 2023 lotto protected 1st to SAC for Bogdanovic, Bjelica, and Koufos


Koufos is a free agent. He can sign anywhere, and if OKC want him, I'm sure they could sign him for the tax payers exception. They certainly aren't going to hardcap themselves at the apron (less than $3m away after this deal, and 2 players short of filling roster spots) by receiving a player via S&T, especially a player of Koufos status.


But also, are we really undervaluing Steven Adams in these types of threads? I'm seeing a lot of offers for him, where it's asked that OKC also give up their 1st and their young talent (Is Ferguson young talent? closest thing to it, I guess...) for downgrades on the court. I get that he's paid a lot, but he'll only be 26 when this next season starts, he plays almost every game possible (he's only missed 25 games in 6 seasons), is a terrific defender and rebounder, and can actually hit a shot out to 15 feet (though he rarely takes them since he's essentially one of the best garbage offensive players in the league, and with Westbrook and PG13, that's what you want him to do). Yes, I get it. $53m owed over the next two years, but dang if he shouldn't be able to net a Bjelica/Bogdanovic package by himself, and maybe even net a pick in that deal.


Bjelica and Bogdanovic are the guys I'm looking at too. I see the Kings as a prime target for this sort of thing. Team needs match up really well.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:32 pm
by the_process
Scoot McGroot wrote:
the_process wrote:Adams, Ferguson, 21, and a 2023 lotto protected 1st to SAC for Bogdanovic, Bjelica, and Koufos


Koufos is a free agent. He can sign anywhere, and if OKC want him, I'm sure they could sign him for the tax payers exception. They certainly aren't going to hardcap themselves at the apron (less than $3m away after this deal, and 2 players short of filling roster spots) by receiving a player via S&T, especially a player of Koufos status.


But also, are we really undervaluing Steven Adams in these types of threads? I'm seeing a lot of offers for him, where it's asked that OKC also give up their 1st and their young talent (Is Ferguson young talent? closest thing to it, I guess...) for downgrades on the court. I get that he's paid a lot, but he'll only be 26 when this next season starts, he plays almost every game possible (he's only missed 25 games in 6 seasons), is a terrific defender and rebounder, and can actually hit a shot out to 15 feet (though he rarely takes them since he's essentially one of the best garbage offensive players in the league, and with Westbrook and PG13, that's what you want him to do). Yes, I get it. $53m owed over the next two years, but dang if he shouldn't be able to net a Bjelica/Bogdanovic package by himself, and maybe even net a pick in that deal.


Yeah, Adams is a relic of another era who is still useful but not overly valuable. Also he has a monster contract. But the whole idea is DOA, I thought Koufos had another year on his deal. OKC would need another C, they have no rights with which to sign Noel unless he’s taking the taxpayer MLE.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:38 pm
by Da ThRONe
I said this two season ago they should find a third team that needs a center and move Adam's for Blake Griffin. A big 3 of Westbrook, George and Griffin(if they can keep him healthy) is OKC best chance to get back at title contenders.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:41 pm
by RipPizzaGuy
Andre Roberstan wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
the_process wrote:Adams, Ferguson, 21, and a 2023 lotto protected 1st to SAC for Bogdanovic, Bjelica, and Koufos


Koufos is a free agent. He can sign anywhere, and if OKC want him, I'm sure they could sign him for the tax payers exception. They certainly aren't going to hardcap themselves at the apron (less than $3m away after this deal, and 2 players short of filling roster spots) by receiving a player via S&T, especially a player of Koufos status.


But also, are we really undervaluing Steven Adams in these types of threads? I'm seeing a lot of offers for him, where it's asked that OKC also give up their 1st and their young talent (Is Ferguson young talent? closest thing to it, I guess...) for downgrades on the court. I get that he's paid a lot, but he'll only be 26 when this next season starts, he plays almost every game possible (he's only missed 25 games in 6 seasons), is a terrific defender and rebounder, and can actually hit a shot out to 15 feet (though he rarely takes them since he's essentially one of the best garbage offensive players in the league, and with Westbrook and PG13, that's what you want him to do). Yes, I get it. $53m owed over the next two years, but dang if he shouldn't be able to net a Bjelica/Bogdanovic package by himself, and maybe even net a pick in that deal.


Bjelica and Bogdanovic are the guys I'm looking at too. I see the Kings as a prime target for this sort of thing. Team needs match up really well.


Personally id pull the trigger on Bogdan/Bjelica/40 for Adams/21 but does that really make sense for OKC? I don't really see anything else in OKC that id want.

Id do Bjelica/40 for Roberson/21 if I felt he would at least come back and be the defender he was, but I don't really see OKC moving off Adams.

IMO 21 with one of Schroder/Patterson/Roberson doesn't get Bogdan.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:41 pm
by Texas Chuck
Da ThRONe wrote:I said this two season ago they should find a third team that needs a center and move Adam's for Blake Griffin. A big 3 of Westbrook, George and Griffin(if they can keep him healthy) is OKC best chance to get back at title contenders.


What would Detroit do with Adams and Drummond tho?

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:43 pm
by Da ThRONe
Texas Chuck wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:I said this two season ago they should find a third team that needs a center and move Adam's for Blake Griffin. A big 3 of Westbrook, George and Griffin(if they can keep him healthy) is OKC best chance to get back at title contenders.


What would Detroit do with Adams and Drummond tho?


You must have missed the 3rd team part.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:53 pm
by Texas Chuck
Da ThRONe wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:I said this two season ago they should find a third team that needs a center and move Adam's for Blake Griffin. A big 3 of Westbrook, George and Griffin(if they can keep him healthy) is OKC best chance to get back at title contenders.


What would Detroit do with Adams and Drummond tho?


You must have missed the 3rd team part.


Indeed I did, though it seems pretty clear re-reading it. My bad. :oops:

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:55 pm
by the_process
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Koufos is a free agent. He can sign anywhere, and if OKC want him, I'm sure they could sign him for the tax payers exception. They certainly aren't going to hardcap themselves at the apron (less than $3m away after this deal, and 2 players short of filling roster spots) by receiving a player via S&T, especially a player of Koufos status.


But also, are we really undervaluing Steven Adams in these types of threads? I'm seeing a lot of offers for him, where it's asked that OKC also give up their 1st and their young talent (Is Ferguson young talent? closest thing to it, I guess...) for downgrades on the court. I get that he's paid a lot, but he'll only be 26 when this next season starts, he plays almost every game possible (he's only missed 25 games in 6 seasons), is a terrific defender and rebounder, and can actually hit a shot out to 15 feet (though he rarely takes them since he's essentially one of the best garbage offensive players in the league, and with Westbrook and PG13, that's what you want him to do). Yes, I get it. $53m owed over the next two years, but dang if he shouldn't be able to net a Bjelica/Bogdanovic package by himself, and maybe even net a pick in that deal.


Bjelica and Bogdanovic are the guys I'm looking at too. I see the Kings as a prime target for this sort of thing. Team needs match up really well.


Personally id pull the trigger on Bogdan/Bjelica/40 for Adams/21 but does that really make sense for OKC? I don't really see anything else in OKC that id want.

Id do Bjelica/40 for Roberson/21 if I felt he would at least come back and be the defender he was, but I don't really see OKC moving off Adams.

IMO 21 with one of Schroder/Patterson/Roberson doesn't get Bogdan.


If OKC sees a way to re-sign Noel, then they should jump all over that deal.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:00 pm
by MoneyTalks41890
the_process wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:
Bjelica and Bogdanovic are the guys I'm looking at too. I see the Kings as a prime target for this sort of thing. Team needs match up really well.


Personally id pull the trigger on Bogdan/Bjelica/40 for Adams/21 but does that really make sense for OKC? I don't really see anything else in OKC that id want.

Id do Bjelica/40 for Roberson/21 if I felt he would at least come back and be the defender he was, but I don't really see OKC moving off Adams.

IMO 21 with one of Schroder/Patterson/Roberson doesn't get Bogdan.


If OKC sees a way to re-sign Noel, then they should jump all over that deal.


I'm not sure what Noel's market will be, but I also think there could be something with Schroder after a deal like this. Schroder for Dieng for example.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:03 pm
by Da ThRONe
Texas Chuck wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
What would Detroit do with Adams and Drummond tho?


You must have missed the 3rd team part.


Indeed I did, though it seems pretty clear re-reading it. My bad. :oops:


It happens.

I think Boston if they lose Horford and Irving could be that third team. Not sure if Brown, Hayward and picks would be enough for Detroit to move Griffin. But Tatum and Smart with Adam's is not a bad core to start a retooling in Boston.

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:19 pm
by basketballwacko2
VCfor3 wrote:Add something and target Kevin Love?

Feel like this thread should be expanded to include/contain all the tidbits Woj dropped during the special ha.



Wouldn't that be the "Pay the max tax now deal?"

Re: WOJ: OKC in absolute win now mode, aggressively shopping 21st pick

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:27 pm
by mlloyd10
Ilyasova/Snell/Wilson/30 for Adams/21