Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread

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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1461 » by pacers33granger » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:38 am

BullyKing wrote:It's amazing to me that the majority of players continue to vote for the stars to lead the players association. Vote for a guy like Vince Carter who's been around forever and knows what its like at both the top and bottom of the food chain.


Didn't work out so great with Fisher.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1462 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:39 am

Colbinii wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
I don't agree with that at all.

That why they have max contracts.


The NBAPA could go much further than they have in helping getting middle class paid in the NBA.

The fact that there are max contracts doesn't actually support the notion that the Players Union is helping the middle class.

A real life analogy would he something along the lines of lowering the premiums of health insurance by 10% when the other option is Universal Health Care. Lowering premiums by 10% appears to be a sacrifice of Health Insurance Companies when the reality is it's the least they could do to still keep everyone around.

(I'm not saying this as an actual example or that universal healthcare is the answer, but I think the example holds weight).

Do you really think the new 10 year Max is there to help the middle class of the NBA?

Remember, the middle class of the NBA is player 100-300, so your 4th/5th starters through your 8/9 bench player.

They could go further to help but they help the middle class more than other major sports.Like the NFL where there is no max, top players get paid and average players get forced to the lower ends of the pay scale. Typically make less than 3 million. Similar to baseball.

In the NBA , where the average players makes 10 plus million a year. If Lebron , AD , and Kawhi was making market rate instead of a pre set max thats below their market rate, there would be less money for players like Danny Green and patrick Beverly. Teams would focus on paying one star the most they can and adding role players. Getting the middle class paid was the economical idea behind the max contract.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1463 » by Colbinii » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 am

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:That why they have max contracts.


The NBAPA could go much further than they have in helping getting middle class paid in the NBA.

The fact that there are max contracts doesn't actually support the notion that the Players Union is helping the middle class.

A real life analogy would he something along the lines of lowering the premiums of health insurance by 10% when the other option is Universal Health Care. Lowering premiums by 10% appears to be a sacrifice of Health Insurance Companies when the reality is it's the least they could do to still keep everyone around.

(I'm not saying this as an actual example or that universal healthcare is the answer, but I think the example holds weight).

Do you really think the new 10 year Max is there to help the middle class of the NBA?

Remember, the middle class of the NBA is player 100-300, so your 4th/5th starters through your 8/9 bench player.

They could go further to help but they help the middle class more than other major sports.Like the NFL where there is no max, top players get paid and average players get forced to the lower ends of the pay scale. Typically make less than 3 million. Similar to baseball.

In the NBA , where the average players makes 10 plus million a year. If Lebron , AD , and Kawhi was making market rate instead of a pre set max thats below their market rate, there would be less money for players like Danny Green and patrick Beverly. Teams would focus on paying one star the most they can and adding role players. Getting the middle class paid was the economical idea behind the max contract.


The average NBA players needs to make 10 Million since that is how math works.

110 Million Payroll divided by 12 players is 9 Million.

Average tells us nothing about wealth distribution.
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E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1464 » by Cappy_Smurf » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:55 am

SO_MONEY wrote:
Sadly, if you have ever held a union job, you would come to understand they are there to protect the weaker workers who have seniority, so protecting an aging player who makes a ton of money falls right in line with its agenda. The Union's agenda is not to help out the young or stronger worker, they have to put their time in for them to be valued in the same way.

While on a fundamental level I agree with you, that more deserving players would get the money, no union ever has been in favor of strictly merit pay. It runs counter to why they see themselves to exist regardless of how non-senior members feel or how it might benefit them.


This really isn't accurate. I mean, I'm sure different Unions vary a great deal in how they operate, but I have had a union job and it didn't work as you say.

In fact, brand new employees were paid exactly the same as guys who'd been there 10+ years. Seniority gave workers first choice of routes, so they had that advantage as well as more PTO, but the pay was the same for everyone.

I also want to say that although I'm 100% pro-union, I've been witness to union reps gaining too much power, to the point the company decided it would be more profitable to shut down a huge paper mill, and put around 400 people out of jobs.

My point here is that I don't think it's a good idea to generalize too much and assume that all union situations are the same.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1465 » by loserX » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:12 pm

I know what all of you are crying out to know: "BUT HOW DID THE REGGIE BULLOCK SAGA END?"

Rest well tonight, my friends:

Read on Twitter
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1466 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:15 pm

loserX wrote:I know what all of you are crying out to know: "BUT HOW DID THE REGGIE BULLOCK SAGA END?"

Rest well tonight, my friends:

Read on Twitter

Tragic for Bullock
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1467 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:58 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
The NBAPA could go much further than they have in helping getting middle class paid in the NBA.

The fact that there are max contracts doesn't actually support the notion that the Players Union is helping the middle class.

A real life analogy would he something along the lines of lowering the premiums of health insurance by 10% when the other option is Universal Health Care. Lowering premiums by 10% appears to be a sacrifice of Health Insurance Companies when the reality is it's the least they could do to still keep everyone around.

(I'm not saying this as an actual example or that universal healthcare is the answer, but I think the example holds weight).

Do you really think the new 10 year Max is there to help the middle class of the NBA?

Remember, the middle class of the NBA is player 100-300, so your 4th/5th starters through your 8/9 bench player.

They could go further to help but they help the middle class more than other major sports.Like the NFL where there is no max, top players get paid and average players get forced to the lower ends of the pay scale. Typically make less than 3 million. Similar to baseball.

In the NBA , where the average players makes 10 plus million a year. If Lebron , AD , and Kawhi was making market rate instead of a pre set max thats below their market rate, there would be less money for players like Danny Green and patrick Beverly. Teams would focus on paying one star the most they can and adding role players. Getting the middle class paid was the economical idea behind the max contract.


The average NBA players needs to make 10 Million since that is how math works.

110 Million Payroll divided by 12 players is 9 Million.

Average tells us nothing about wealth distribution.



Shouldn't be 12 players, should be ~14 per team.



As for distribution, there is better but: https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/

about 100 players above 9m, and about 320 below it.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1468 » by Klomp » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:29 pm

Read on Twitter


Here's the structure on Reid's deal.

$898,310
$1,517,981
$1,782,621
$1,930,681
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1469 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:39 pm

Klomp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Here's the structure on Reid's deal.

$898,310
$1,517,981
$1,782,621
$1,930,681


FWIW, those are the minimum salaries for each year of experience as of this year. So, he got 900k gtd to lock up cheap for 4 years.

(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1470 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:58 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:FWIW, those are the minimum salaries for each year of experience as of this year. So, he got 900k gtd to lock up cheap for 4 years.

(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)

Correct.

The interesting thing to me is giving him the fourth year. I feel like we usually see these types of deals as three-year contracts, but how often is a 2nd rounder/undrafted guy given a fourth year?
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1471 » by Resistance » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:23 am

Gupta was with Hinkie in the Philadelphia FO.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1472 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 am

Resistance wrote:Gupta was with Hinkie in the Philadelphia FO.

Correct
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1473 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:48 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)

Speaking of being in the weeds on minimum contracts, I'm looking at two recent Minnesota additions, and I'm wondering if Napier and Graham should actually qualify for the league reimbursement. Eric Pincus doesn't have them doing so at the moment, but I think they may qualify.

Graham signed a two-year minimum contract last summer, but the second-year salary he's listed at is higher than the current veteran minimum reimbursement level. I'm less certain about Napier since he signed a declining contract last summer. But Year 2 of his deal actually dropped to what should be a minimum contract, which I'm curious if that should qualify that deal for reimbursement.

We're only talking a difference of maybe $250,000 combined between the two, but it's just something I was curious about.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1474 » by Resistance » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:24 am

Klomp wrote:
Resistance wrote:Gupta was with Hinkie in the Philadelphia FO.

Correct



Hinkie used to be with Houston as did Gupta, Rosas and Gianluca Pascucci. I would look for Minnesota to have some flavoring from Houston, Philadelphia and Brooklyn in operations and philosophy.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1475 » by Resistance » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:33 am

Klomp wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)

Speaking of being in the weeds on minimum contracts, I'm looking at two recent Minnesota additions, and I'm wondering if Napier and Graham should actually qualify for the league reimbursement. Eric Pincus doesn't have them doing so at the moment, but I think they may qualify.

Graham signed a two-year minimum contract last summer, but the second-year salary he's listed at is higher than the current veteran minimum reimbursement level. I'm less certain about Napier since he signed a declining contract last summer. But Year 2 of his deal actually dropped to what should be a minimum contract, which I'm curious if that should qualify that deal for reimbursement.

We're only talking a difference of maybe $250,000 combined between the two, but it's just something I was curious about.




I think it would have to be a contract that was signed for only one year rather than the final year of a multi year contract.


22. What is the minimum salary a player can receive?

When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or Rest-of-Season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary for a two-year veteran. For example, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran in 2017-18 is $1,471,382, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $2,328,652, the league would reimburse the team $857,270. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1476 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:44 am

Resistance wrote:I think it would have to be a contract that was signed for only one year rather than the final year of a multi year contract.

Good catch! That's the part I was missing....
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1477 » by HartfordWhalers » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:34 pm

Klomp wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:FWIW, those are the minimum salaries for each year of experience as of this year. So, he got 900k gtd to lock up cheap for 4 years.

(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)

Correct.

The interesting thing to me is giving him the fourth year. I feel like we usually see these types of deals as three-year contracts, but how often is a 2nd rounder/undrafted guy given a fourth year?

Philly did all four year deals with the last year a team option.

That way you have your choice, 4 cheap years and ufa or 3 cheap years and then rfa.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1478 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Klomp wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:FWIW, those are the minimum salaries for each year of experience as of this year. So, he got 900k gtd to lock up cheap for 4 years.

(For those really in the weeds on it, he should get 1.6m next year because the 2nd year minimum will rise with the salary cap)

Correct.

The interesting thing to me is giving him the fourth year. I feel like we usually see these types of deals as three-year contracts, but how often is a 2nd rounder/undrafted guy given a fourth year?

Philly did all four year deals with the last year a team option.

That way you have your choice, 4 cheap years and ufa or 3 cheap years and then rfa.


Yup. Also Houston did this with Parsons and a team option on the 4th I believe. Indy did it with Lance. Usually requires a team option and not a non guaranteed deal on the 4th as they’d then be immune from waivers and you could make a QO to restrict them.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1479 » by kalenclayton » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Good for him. I hope he comes back to the Kings one day. He has a great personality and seems to be an awesome teammate. His game has just been phased out a bit.
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Re: Random Rumor and General Offseason Discussion Thread 

Post#1480 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Yup. Also Houston did this with Parsons and a team option on the 4th I believe. Indy did it with Lance. Usually requires a team option and not a non guaranteed deal on the 4th as they’d then be immune from waivers and you could make a QO to restrict them.

That's what it looks like happened with Reid. Years 2 and 3 nonguaranteed, Year 4 team option.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

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