Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️

Moderators: pacers33granger, Trader_Joe, loserX, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck

User avatar
Lovetron Joe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 802
And1: 263
Joined: Dec 26, 2014
       

Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#1 » by Lovetron Joe » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Miami trades Bam, Richardson, Winslow, the Ellington trade exemption and this year’s first. Philly trades Jimmy Butler.

Why for the Heat. There is rumored mutual interest with Butler but they cannot get him without a sign and trade with the Sixers. He gives them a star for the next few years and someone to attract other star players.

Why for the Sixers. They get younger players, needed depth at wing and back-up center, a decent draft choice and a high quality starter in Richardson.
User avatar
Domejandro
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 12,009
And1: 14,890
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#2 » by Domejandro » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Literally zero chance Miami offers all that. They offered Minnesota Dion Waiters, Josh Richardson, and Protected First for Jimmy Butler last year (and they pulled out completely when Minnesota asked for more), they aren't going to add all of that just for the privilege to give him a full max. The idea that they are going to go from that to Bam Adebayo, Josh Richardson, Justise Winslow, and a future first is not at all realistic, his value is lower than it was a year ago.

As a note, you can't add Trade Exceptions to trades like that, the exception can only take in players who are making the same amount or less.
Yang2020.com #HumanityFirst
User avatar
Kurt Heimlich
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,905
And1: 2,689
Joined: Jun 26, 2001

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#3 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Miami allegedly passed on a butler for jrich/pick based deal last year. Adding Winslow and bam makes this an even easier no for them. Value is significantly off here.
BBallFreak
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,519
And1: 6,832
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#4 » by BBallFreak » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:03 pm

Domejandro wrote:Literally zero chance Miami offers all that. They offered Minnesota Dion Waiters, Josh Richardson, and Protected First for Jimmy Butler last year (and they pulled out completely when Minnesota asked for more), they aren't going to add all of that just for the privilege to give him a full max. The idea that they are going to go from that to Bam Adebayo, Josh Richardson, Justise Winslow, and a future first is not at all realistic, his value is lower than it was a year ago.

As a note, you can't add Trade Exceptions to trades like that, the exception can only take in players who are making the same amount or less.

Couldn't have said it better, myself. Absolutely no chance Miami does this.

EDIT: It's not a future first, it's this year's first. Not only do they get J-Rich, Bam, and Justise, they get this year's lottery pick!
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 35,781
And1: 20,365
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#5 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:14 pm

S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
User avatar
Hoops23
General Manager
Posts: 8,228
And1: 904
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Location: City of Angels
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#6 » by Hoops23 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:36 pm

If the Heat didnt trade J-Rich with a 1st pick last yr with minny, much more this trade.
Not worth to give those assets mentioned above and a max contract to butler
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 39,640
And1: 14,838
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#7 » by HartfordWhalers » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:44 pm

This is a ridiculous ask
User avatar
Lovetron Joe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 802
And1: 263
Joined: Dec 26, 2014
       

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#8 » by Lovetron Joe » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:45 pm

jbk1234 wrote:S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


Yes, you are right, that is the point. A sign and trade guarantees that the Heat gets Jimmy. The aforementioned in season trade for J Rich etc. that they are said to have turned down would not guarantee his signing. Thus they will have to offer more. The 13th pick in a weak 2019 draft does not have major value.
User avatar
Lovetron Joe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 802
And1: 263
Joined: Dec 26, 2014
       

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#9 » by Lovetron Joe » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:46 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:This is a ridiculous ask


Then what is the right ask?
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 39,640
And1: 14,838
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#10 » by HartfordWhalers » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:49 pm

Lovetron Joe wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:This is a ridiculous ask


Then what is the right ask?

Basically what it would take to dump Waiters to a third team plus a second rounder to Philly.
User avatar
Lovetron Joe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 802
And1: 263
Joined: Dec 26, 2014
       

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#11 » by Lovetron Joe » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:22 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Lovetron Joe wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:This is a ridiculous ask


Then what is the right ask?

Basically what it would take to dump Waiters to a third team plus a second rounder to Philly.


And what would it take to dump Waiters? Let's assume a 2nd. Are you saying Philly should take 2 seconds to facilitate Miami signing Butler? That does not seem like a reasonable trade (for Philly). Why would the Sixers do that?
BBallFreak
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,519
And1: 6,832
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#12 » by BBallFreak » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:31 pm

Lovetron Joe wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


Yes, you are right, that is the point. A sign and trade guarantees that the Heat gets Jimmy. The aforementioned in season trade for J Rich etc. that they are said to have turned down would not guarantee his signing. Thus they will have to offer more. The 13th pick in a weak 2019 draft does not have major value.

No one is suggesting that Philly should take Waiters and James Johnson and be happy about it, but this is a HUGE overpay. This is what we'd offer for AD, not Jimmy Butler.

I think Hartford left out the fact that you might get Josh Richardson, Waiters, and our pick, but Waiters won't get taken away for a mere second rounder. That pick would go to the third team.
User avatar
gom
Heat forum: Expert Predictor
Posts: 13,257
And1: 31,234
Joined: May 30, 2014
Contact:
 

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#13 » by gom » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:42 pm

If Pat Riley makes this deal, we'll ship him out too.
Humans: Out of nature and hopelessly in it; dual, up in the stars and yet housed in a heart-pumping, breath-gasping body that once belonged to a fish and still carries the gill-marks to prove it.

Ernest Becker

Image
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 35,781
And1: 20,365
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:12 pm

I think a fair offer is J.Rich, JJ and No. 13, or J.Rich for Butler with No.13 following JJ to a third team.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 39,640
And1: 14,838
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#15 » by HartfordWhalers » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 35,781
And1: 20,365
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#16 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.
Assuming Whiteside opts in, if he hasn't already, the Heat need to clear $40M to offer Butler a max? The Nets need to renounce Russell and get someone to take one of their good role players. The Heat need to make it worth it for the Sixers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
User avatar
Dr_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 17,180
And1: 81,807
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
Location: Bustelo coffee bar
         

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#17 » by Dr_Heat » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm

Image
Dr_Heat wrote:i been a pelican fan since birth

Dr_Heat wrote:oh and a Lakers fan since birth too

Dr_Heat wrote:lifelong Tyler Herro fan checking in
User avatar
Mamba4Goat
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 6,647
And1: 3,887
Joined: Dec 13, 2013
         

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#18 » by Mamba4Goat » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:27 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:Image


We don't do just gif comments on here. Either add to and further the conversation or don't post.
John Stockton - All time leader in Assists and Steals.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,267
And1: 3,958
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#19 » by the_process » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:33 pm

If the Sixers are getting practically nothing, then there’s no point to facilitating. They should just tell Jimmy take the 188M or go somewhere that can sign you free and clear.

However, if Miami can dump a lot of bad long term money, say D.Waiters and J.Johnson; then adding 13 and J.Richardson for S&T J.Butler should work for both sides.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 39,640
And1: 14,838
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
   

Re: Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️ 

Post#20 » by HartfordWhalers » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:05 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.
Assuming Whiteside opts in, if he hasn't already, the Heat need to clear $40M to offer Butler a max? The Nets need to renounce Russell and get someone to take one of their good role players. The Heat need to make it worth it for the Sixers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app



Oh,I'm not saying a sign and trade is easy for a team with a bunch of bad salary.

I am saying that a team should expect to get no more than a 2nd rounder for a free agent.

Return to Trades and Transactions