Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

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Who won the trade?

Lakers by a lot
22
15%
Lakers by a little
15
10%
Both
44
30%
Pelicans by a little
19
13%
Pelicans by a lot
33
22%
Need to see the draft protections
13
9%
Other (explain?)
2
1%
 
Total votes: 148

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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#241 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:11 pm

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Yep I'm with Slava and Wasabi on this. As fun as it has been to laugh at some of the Lakers' FO chaos, I'm certain they employ some guys who know the CBA well enough to understand how and when to structure deals.

But there is another party involved with their own interests and motivations. And as Slava points out, possibly a 3rd team with their own time table.


So are we taking the reports that it will be done on July 6 as some kind of leverage or PR ploy by the Pelicans? Or even by LA? Or is everyone just staying tight lipped and "sources" are speculating?

If the deal included the delayed consummation date I would think there wouldn't be this much uncertainty coming from high level well sourced reporters.

There's a difference in the deal being done by July 6 because that what the Pels wanted vs Pelinka doing a deal not knowing he could of had max cap space.


Agreed. I doubt that LA would've negotiated this whole deal for AD, and then stood firm on forcing New Orleans to hold off until July 30 or they'd pass/call it off. If it came down to that, that seems to be one negotiating point that LA would just have to give up on, and pay to NO to finish the deal.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#242 » by the_process » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:30 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
the_process wrote:Pelinka gave up the Billy King draft pick platter and didn’t demand the later completion date for the extra cap. :nonono:

That’s absurdly bad GMing.


They got AD. It can't be that bad of GMing.


Except Griffin got everything, and Pelinka couldn’t even extract a small concession as to the completion date. Also AD’s effect on winning has been questionable up to now, and he’s been constantly dinged up. So it can’t be overlooked simply because Pelinka got the best player IMO.

It’s like when Vlade didn’t know you could stretch contracts, so Hinkie sodomized him. The devil’s in the details, and the margins separate bad from good as far as GM’s go.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#243 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:35 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
Only if the Nets sign some big FA's this summer. Clearly the Celtics shouldn't have gambled on Kyrie Irving. They have had some bad luck with the injury to IT that took him from juggernaut to washed up, and the injury to Gordon Hayward after giving him that huge contract.

If Ainge was gonna make a big trade and move one of the brooklyn picks he should have traded for Paul George and not signed Hayward. Of course there is no way to know that Hayward was gonna get hurt in game 1. George has turned into a monster in OKC and Hayward may never be the same. I've always felt that Boston should have consolidated their assets rather than just using them, they've taken a lot of players who didn't do much.

Not sure need to sign a big FA for that to have the better long term. Nets won 42 games. Have control of their key players. They can build on last season and fill out the roster in FA.

BOS more needs Irving(or somebody ) to have the better long term imo. Irving leaving could mean Horford leaves also.Without Irving, BOS long term hinges on the health of Hayward and the development of Brown and Tatum.


I don't see Horford giving up $30 million for next yr at 34 years old.


Ahhh well so much for my logic!
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#244 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:43 pm

Dupp wrote:Is there any reason for the pelicans to not complete the trade when the lakers want or just to be dicks? What’s their benefit doing it at another time?


If I'm the Pels I want the deal done by July 6th and not waiting till the 30th or whenever. I want my new players asap for the summer league and other things. What if I want to trade the 4th pick?
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#245 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:50 pm

the_process wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
the_process wrote:Pelinka gave up the Billy King draft pick platter and didn’t demand the later completion date for the extra cap. :nonono:

That’s absurdly bad GMing.


They got AD. It can't be that bad of GMing.


Except Griffin got everything, and Pelinka couldn’t even extract a small concession as to the completion date. Also AD’s effect on winning has been questionable up to now, and he’s been constantly dinged up. So it can’t be overlooked simply because Pelinka got the best player IMO.

It’s like when Vlade didn’t know you could stretch contracts, so Hinkie sodomized him. The devil’s in the details, and the margins separate bad from good as far as GM’s go.


If your point is Griffin is a better GM than Pelinka, we agree.

However, generally speaking the teams who get the best player tend to come out well in these deals. And let's face it Pelinka couldn't survive another summer not adding a star to Lebron and it was looking more and more likely like they were going to whiff on free agents again.

If Lebron/AD can deliver no one will care about the price down the road. If they can't well LA was screwed regardless. I mean we saw what happened when they had all their own picks and had good lottery luck picking at #2 over and over again. They got nowhere until they were able to flip them here.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#246 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:54 pm

the_process wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
the_process wrote:Pelinka gave up the Billy King draft pick platter and didn’t demand the later completion date for the extra cap. :nonono:

That’s absurdly bad GMing.


They got AD. It can't be that bad of GMing.


Except Griffin got everything, and Pelinka couldn’t even extract a small concession as to the completion date. Also AD’s effect on winning has been questionable up to now, and he’s been constantly dinged up. So it can’t be overlooked simply because Pelinka got the best player IMO.

It’s like when Vlade didn’t know you could stretch contracts, so Hinkie sodomized him. The devil’s in the details, and the margins separate bad from good as far as GM’s go.


He didn't get everything. He didn't get to keep AD. Pelinka paid the price to get AD. And, with LA's pieces devalued this past season, the front office infighting, and reports of no max level free agents realistically considering the Lakers this summer abounding, the Lakers paid the inflated price to get the guy they needed to change the discussion about themselves. Rich Paul helped them, by getting AD there with his posturing about not re signing anywhere, but he hurt them, too, by the trade demand driving the divide in the Lakers front office and making it all so public.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#247 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:18 pm

Slava wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Slava wrote:
I think the extra pick swap was included just to delay the deal until July 30 but we obviously don't know until it happens.


I don’t think the Lakers ran the numbers or we wouldn’t have all this reporting/confusion on when the trade is actually happening.


That would be incredibly negligent and I couldn't believe that's the case. As much of a clown show as that front office is, their only plan has been to calibrate the cap math to get max salary spots and they've been working on this since they stretched Deng a year ago so they should have a good enough idea of every possible scenario.

I'm guessing its yet in limbo because it might be out of Pelicans' hands if they decided to move the 4th pick. Then the third team would have to accede to the date as well.


It's probably not true, but I saw an interesting theory on reddit...

Let's say the Pelicans asked the Lakers for an extra asset to push the deal to July 30th, whether it's Kuzma or another pick (if possible), and have already agreed on the price. If it was Kuzma the Lakers would also free up a little more salary by trading him. The Lakers didn't want to commit to this part of the deal yet because they don't know if they want the extra cap space until they see what the FAs decide. If Kawhi wanted to come there, then you trade Kuzma in an instant to get it done on July 30th. Not sure if they like Kemba or Kyrie more than Kuzma+spreading the cap around on depth, but if they're that much of a star hungry team maybe. As it stands without knowing what Kawhi/Kemba/Kyrie want, both sides have left Kuzma out of the announced deal, despite the Pelicans taking everything else in their house
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#248 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:18 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
Slava wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
I don’t think the Lakers ran the numbers or we wouldn’t have all this reporting/confusion on when the trade is actually happening.


That would be incredibly negligent and I couldn't believe that's the case. As much of a clown show as that front office is, their only plan has been to calibrate the cap math to get max salary spots and they've been working on this since they stretched Deng a year ago so they should have a good enough idea of every possible scenario.

I'm guessing its yet in limbo because it might be out of Pelicans' hands if they decided to move the 4th pick. Then the third team would have to accede to the date as well.


It's probably not true, but I saw an interesting theory on reddit...

Let's say the Pelicans asked the Lakers for an extra asset to push the deal to July 30th, whether it's Kuzma or another pick (if possible), and have already agreed on the price. If it was Kuzma the Lakers would also free up a little more salary by trading him. The Lakers didn't want to commit to this part of the deal yet because they don't know if they want the extra cap space until they see what the FAs decide. If Kawhi wanted to come there, then you trade Kuzma in an instant to get it done on July 30th. Not sure if they like Kemba or Kyrie more than Kuzma+spreading the cap around on depth, but if they're that much of a star hungry team maybe. As it stands without knowing what Kawhi/Kemba/Kyrie want, both sides have left Kuzma out of the announced deal, despite the Pelicans taking everything else in their house


If true, that would’ve leaked as a possibility just like the rest of the deal leaked almost ASAP.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#249 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:43 am

the_process wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
the_process wrote:Pelinka gave up the Billy King draft pick platter and didn’t demand the later completion date for the extra cap. :nonono:

That’s absurdly bad GMing.


They got AD. It can't be that bad of GMing.


Except Griffin got everything, and Pelinka couldn’t even extract a small concession as to the completion date. Also AD’s effect on winning has been questionable up to now, and he’s been constantly dinged up. So it can’t be overlooked simply because Pelinka got the best player IMO.

It’s like when Vlade didn’t know you could stretch contracts, so Hinkie ________. The devil’s in the details, and the margins separate bad from good as far as GM’s go.


Please pick different descriptions going forward.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#250 » by NYG » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:12 am

With LAL trying to dump more salary, how many teams are in the final version of this?
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#251 » by QRich3 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:32 am

QRich3 wrote:So if I had to bet I'd say Pelinka did try to negotiate the later date and got some sort of "don't push it" answer back, so he was happy to get AD in the end. As he should. Not sure the 3 star route would be the best for them anyway.

Well, I'm gonna have to eat crow here, remember Q, never underestimate people's stupidity!

https://streamable.com/fgmzb

According to Ramona they didn't even discuss the possibility until after the trade had been agreed and announed, i.e. they probably didn't realize opening a max slot post trade was possible until they saw the reports about it :noway:
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#252 » by Slava » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:55 am

QRich3 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:So if I had to bet I'd say Pelinka did try to negotiate the later date and got some sort of "don't push it" answer back, so he was happy to get AD in the end. As he should. Not sure the 3 star route would be the best for them anyway.

Well, I'm gonna have to eat crow here, remember Q, never underestimate people's stupidity!

https://streamable.com/fgmzb

According to Ramona they didn't even discuss the possibility until after the trade had been agreed and announed, i.e. they probably didn't realize opening a max slot post trade was possible until they saw the reports about it :noway:


Only the royal clown Pelinka can turn his greatest moment into further humiliation. :lol:
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#253 » by QRich3 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:27 pm

What I don't understand is, they do have competent people in that front office, or at least everyone says so. Even Jerry emphasized it not long ago, they have his son, they have Jesse Buss, they have dudes like Bill Bertka and Clay Moser who've been in the league like forever, did no one at all bring up in a meeting the obvious possibility of "what are we gonna do after the trade goes through"? or did Pelinka just brush them aside or what?

Arnovitz put it very well the other day when he said they don't wanna be like a start-up or a hedge fund looking for advantages in the margins, they're content with just putting stars together like they always did, and if you actually have the possibility, it's not a bad business model. You don't need to be all that smart to know that putting Lebron and AD together means you're gonna be good, and if you actually manage to do it, it might just work. But purposely brushing off that stuff in the margins, like they've done for years with analytics, like they're doing with cap management, etc. will just get you in more trouble than you need to be. Like, if you have the luck that you can put together stars like that, you should be trying to gain every advantage to surround them the best way possible, that might be the difference between having a dynasty in your hands and ending up like the Kobe/Dwight/Nash team, or like last year.
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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart 

Post#254 » by DoItALL9 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm

Hard to believe NOLA wouldn't've taken on Deng along with this haul if LA hadn't already stretched him.

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