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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:58 pm
by Scoot McGroot
pelifan wrote:how much cap did NO open up? seems to me if they let everyone walk they should have in the range of 25 million


They’ll be about $18m under the cap after this deal if they renounce everyone.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:59 pm
by pelifan
Scoot McGroot wrote:
pelifan wrote:how much cap did NO open up? seems to me if they let everyone walk they should have in the range of 25 million


They’ll be about $18m under the cap after this deal if they renounce everyone.


that include Randle opting out?

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:01 am
by paulbball
Pelicans made out like bandits even with just Ingram + Ball + 4th + Hart. Josh Hart is a decent role player trapped in a basement bottom contract.

I don't love the Pelicans roster. Lacks shooting plus they need to consolidate the good, but great players on their team. Ingram should be packged with picks to upgrade the C or backup PF. Then you draft a rookie wing in like HUnter, Culver, PJ Washington, Reddish (though dunno if we want a Reddish/Zion redux)

Ball
Jrue
Ingram
Zion
Randle

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:02 am
by jbk1234
retrobro90 wrote:
Read on Twitter


FWIW Moore saying just one additional swap. 7 straight years of picks/swaps is insanity.
Yeah, that was 100% Ramona playing the expectations game.

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Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:05 am
by nolang1
I would've rather traded Kuzma and kept either Ingram or some picks, but as long as it's not like all unprotected future 1sts from the Lakers they did alright; I think people are really underestimating how AD is going to be the best teammate LeBron's ever had when you consider how redundant Wade's skillset was. The Pelicans could have a pretty solid team this year already if they take Hunter at 4.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:10 am
by VCfor3
Would Kuzma for Bogdan Bogdanovic+Bjelica work for both teams? Wagner and Isaac can be added on the Lakers side but how far off is that deal? Feels light for SAC but don't know what all else is really available for LAL to add until we see what their pick situation looks like.

SAC gets even more cap space and can go hard in FA while getting a younger piece in Kuzma to fit with their core. They can also take on an expiring contract for assets.

LAL breaks Kuzma into two pieces. They then can throw their remaining cap space at Beverly and use the Room Exception on Justin Holiday or a center or something. Beverly/Bogdan/LBJ/Bjelica/AD with Holiday (or Bogdan if Holiday starts) off the bench isn't terrible if they can't get a max FA.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:16 am
by HartfordWhalers
Weird, are they going to fire Kidd now?

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:21 am
by Scoot McGroot
pelifan wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
pelifan wrote:how much cap did NO open up? seems to me if they let everyone walk they should have in the range of 25 million


They’ll be about $18m under the cap after this deal if they renounce everyone.


that include Randle opting out?


Yes.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:23 am
by GimmeDat
Pelicans absolutely smashed this.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:27 am
by Coeur
VCfor3 wrote:Would Kuzma for Bogdan Bogdanovic+Bjelica work for both teams? Wagner and Isaac can be added on the Lakers side but how far off is that deal? Feels light for SAC but don't know what all else is really available for LAL to add until we see what their pick situation looks like.

SAC gets even more cap space and can go hard in FA while getting a younger piece in Kuzma to fit with their core. They can also take on an expiring contract for assets.

LAL breaks Kuzma into two pieces. They then can throw their remaining cap space at Beverly and use the Room Exception on Justin Holiday or a center or something. Beverly/Bogdan/LBJ/Bjelica/AD with Holiday (or Bogdan if Holiday starts) off the bench isn't terrible if they can't get a max FA.


That’s the exact type of trade they should pursue imo. Bogdan/Bjelica or Gary Harris/juancho

If they could get a few seconds

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:31 am
by Scoot McGroot
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Max guy should know where he going by July 6.


If they use up the space, they have to sign the draft pick to match salaries and then wait 30 says, so August, before New Orleans could execute the deal. That might not be ok with them, and likely has already been decided between the two teams. I would think New Orleans would like to move on, and if they keep 4, introduce the new pick at a presser and have him play summer league and such.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q86
Does this not apply? Doesn't seem like they need 4 salary to make it work. All the players minus Kuzma not including 4 salary is roughly 22.9.

Cap wise. Renounce all FAs and be 400k short of Kemba max. Kemba can be short or you can break the AD trade in two parts. Send 4 for cap space to Pels . Sign Kemba then send the rest of the players and picks for AD.


If you're saying to have LA trade Lonzo, Ingram, Hart, Wagner, and Bonga for AD to match salaries without having to include the salary of the #4 pick, it doesn't match up. If they do it before July 1, LA would have to send out $20.267m to take in AD, and that package only combines for $17.636m. If they do it on July 1 with the new salaries, LA would have to send out $21.594m to absorb AD, and that package of players only combines for $21.399m.

If they want to go back to negotiations, and include Wagner, Bonga, and get Jemerrio Jones to alter his contract to have $200k guarantee, then, salary wise, it would work on July 1 (Jemerrio Jones is eligible to be traded on July 1). But, that's a different deal. If LA wants to just throw them in, I guess New Orleans would take them for free? I imagine they wouldn't give back any 1sts though. And, that would mean that Jemerrio Jones is the lynchpin, and would have veto power, over making this deal setup work. Which is crazy. And also, in your setup, LA would have to waive Jemerrio Jones 1st to clear enough space to offer someone $32.5m, which would still be a hare under the full max of $32.7m on a $109m cap.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:34 am
by jayjaysee
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Three firsts is a lot. Especially given LBJ's age and AD's injury history. Obviously, Ingram's health will play a huge part in how this ultimately pans out for the Pelicans.

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Really only two future firsts. I assume 2020 , 2022. Number 4 pick for this draft was found money.


Found money is still money.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:35 am
by SD2042
I hope the Lakers are happy now.

As for the Pels, great haul.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:52 am
by babyjax13
Pelicans have a ton of assets now, even more of they flip Ball or Holiday (but could be interesting together).

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:52 am
by zimpy27
GimmeDat wrote:Pelicans absolutely smashed this.


Lakers: AD

Pelicans: Ingram, Ball, Hart, pick 4 2019, pick 20-25 2021, pick 20-25 2023, pick swap 2025

It's a fair deal, Pels got more than I thought they would. I imagine the deal gets official after July 30, that makes the deal sensible for the Lakers, obviously, they had to pay for that stipulation so that they could get a max FA on top.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:53 am
by kobe_vs_jordan
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
If they use up the space, they have to sign the draft pick to match salaries and then wait 30 says, so August, before New Orleans could execute the deal. That might not be ok with them, and likely has already been decided between the two teams. I would think New Orleans would like to move on, and if they keep 4, introduce the new pick at a presser and have him play summer league and such.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q86
Does this not apply? Doesn't seem like they need 4 salary to make it work. All the players minus Kuzma not including 4 salary is roughly 22.9.

Cap wise. Renounce all FAs and be 400k short of Kemba max. Kemba can be short or you can break the AD trade in two parts. Send 4 for cap space to Pels . Sign Kemba then send the rest of the players and picks for AD.


If you're saying to have LA trade Lonzo, Ingram, Hart, Wagner, and Bonga for AD to match salaries without having to include the salary of the #4 pick, it doesn't match up. If they do it before July 1, LA would have to send out $20.267m to take in AD, and that package only combines for $17.636m. If they do it on July 1 with the new salaries, LA would have to send out $21.594m to absorb AD, and that package of players only combines for $21.399m.

If they want to go back to negotiations, and include Wagner, Bonga, and get Jemerrio Jones to alter his contract to have $200k guarantee, then, salary wise, it would work on July 1 (Jemerrio Jones is eligible to be traded on July 1). But, that's a different deal. If LA wants to just throw them in, I guess New Orleans would take them for free? I imagine they wouldn't give back any 1sts though. And, that would mean that Jemerrio Jones is the lynchpin, and would have veto power, over making this deal setup work. Which is crazy. And also, in your setup, LA would have to waive Jemerrio Jones 1st to clear enough space to offer someone $32.5m, which would still be a hare under the full max of $32.7m on a $109m cap.

It was reported that the trade cant be official before July 6. There isn't a July first scenario.

NO doesn't have to take Wagner and bonga. Any team can take them. They just need to be outgoing on the laker side.

Being a hair short of the max is assuming Lakers sign 4. From my understanding , they don't have to sign the pick if they not going to use it to count against cap. If they don't have to sign him they would be a hair short.

If that's not true and pick 4 counts against their cap regardless. They can trade pick 4 separately to NO to generate the shortfall with a cap hold to sign the max. Then

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:57 am
by VCfor3
zimpy27 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:Pelicans absolutely smashed this.


Lakers: AD

Pelicans: Ingram, Ball, Hart, pick 4 2019, pick 20-25 2021, pick 20-25 2023, pick swap 2025

It's a fair deal, Pels got more than I thought they would. I imagine the deal gets official after July 30, that makes the deal sensible for the Lakers, obviously, they had to pay for that stipulation so that they could get a max FA on top.


I feel like it will be the 2020 1st and 2022 1st with the swap happening in 2021.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:03 am
by Scoot McGroot
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q86
Does this not apply? Doesn't seem like they need 4 salary to make it work. All the players minus Kuzma not including 4 salary is roughly 22.9.

Cap wise. Renounce all FAs and be 400k short of Kemba max. Kemba can be short or you can break the AD trade in two parts. Send 4 for cap space to Pels . Sign Kemba then send the rest of the players and picks for AD.


If you're saying to have LA trade Lonzo, Ingram, Hart, Wagner, and Bonga for AD to match salaries without having to include the salary of the #4 pick, it doesn't match up. If they do it before July 1, LA would have to send out $20.267m to take in AD, and that package only combines for $17.636m. If they do it on July 1 with the new salaries, LA would have to send out $21.594m to absorb AD, and that package of players only combines for $21.399m.

If they want to go back to negotiations, and include Wagner, Bonga, and get Jemerrio Jones to alter his contract to have $200k guarantee, then, salary wise, it would work on July 1 (Jemerrio Jones is eligible to be traded on July 1). But, that's a different deal. If LA wants to just throw them in, I guess New Orleans would take them for free? I imagine they wouldn't give back any 1sts though. And, that would mean that Jemerrio Jones is the lynchpin, and would have veto power, over making this deal setup work. Which is crazy. And also, in your setup, LA would have to waive Jemerrio Jones 1st to clear enough space to offer someone $32.5m, which would still be a hare under the full max of $32.7m on a $109m cap.

It was reported that the trade cant be official before July 6. There isn't a July first scenario.


July 1st just means new salaries and league year rolls over. In this case, July 1st and July 6th are the same thing, in terms of meaning. 2019/20 salaries versue 2018/19 salaries is what was meant.

Wasabi_Johnson wrote: NO doesn't have to take Wagner and bonga. Any team can take them. They just need to be outgoing on the laker side.


That's fine. They can go anywhere, but LA would still have to send out more salary, to anywhere, in order to send enough to absorb AD in a simultaneous, salary matching trade. That's why I mentioned Jemerrio Jones, but that presents some small issues the other way, too, as they need to waive him to get as close as possible to a full max salary too.

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Being a hair short of the max is assuming Lakers sign 4. From my understanding , they don't have to sign the pick if they not going to use it to count against cap. If they don't have to sign him they would be a hair short.

If that's not true and pick 4 counts against their cap regardless. They can trade pick 4 separately to NO to generate the shortfall with a cap hold to sign the max. Then


Being a hair short didn't mean signing 4. If they sign the 4th pick and then wait the 30 days to July 31st, they'll be fine no matter what. But NO would have to be ok with that, too. And yes, the cap hold for the 4th pick is the same to LA, signed or unsigned. Signed or unsigned just affects when the salary can be used in a simultaneous trade and when a trade restriction on the player drafted 4th would kick in.

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:12 am
by GopherIt!
pelifan wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
pelifan wrote:how much cap did NO open up? seems to me if they let everyone walk they should have in the range of 25 million


They’ll be about $18m under the cap after this deal if they renounce everyone.


that include Randle opting out?


its ur responsibility to know these things peli. u r afterall the global ambassador to all things pelican on the board

Re: Woj: AD to LA for 3 1sts, Ingram, Ball, Hart

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:14 am
by Scoot McGroot
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
If you're saying to have LA trade Lonzo, Ingram, Hart, Wagner, and Bonga for AD to match salaries without having to include the salary of the #4 pick, it doesn't match up. If they do it before July 1, LA would have to send out $20.267m to take in AD, and that package only combines for $17.636m. If they do it on July 1 with the new salaries, LA would have to send out $21.594m to absorb AD, and that package of players only combines for $21.399m.

If they want to go back to negotiations, and include Wagner, Bonga, and get Jemerrio Jones to alter his contract to have $200k guarantee, then, salary wise, it would work on July 1 (Jemerrio Jones is eligible to be traded on July 1). But, that's a different deal. If LA wants to just throw them in, I guess New Orleans would take them for free? I imagine they wouldn't give back any 1sts though. And, that would mean that Jemerrio Jones is the lynchpin, and would have veto power, over making this deal setup work. Which is crazy. And also, in your setup, LA would have to waive Jemerrio Jones 1st to clear enough space to offer someone $32.5m, which would still be a hare under the full max of $32.7m on a $109m cap.

It was reported that the trade cant be official before July 6. There isn't a July first scenario.


July 1st just means new salaries and league year rolls over. In this case, July 1st and July 6th are the same thing, in terms of meaning. 2019/20 salaries versue 2018/19 salaries is what was meant.

Wasabi_Johnson wrote: NO doesn't have to take Wagner and bonga. Any team can take them. They just need to be outgoing on the laker side.


That's fine. They can go anywhere, but LA would still have to send out more salary, to anywhere, in order to send enough to absorb AD in a simultaneous, salary matching trade. That's why I mentioned Jemerrio Jones, but that presents some small issues the other way, too, as they need to waive him to get as close as possible to a full max salary too.

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Being a hair short of the max is assuming Lakers sign 4. From my understanding , they don't have to sign the pick if they not going to use it to count against cap. If they don't have to sign him they would be a hair short.

If that's not true and pick 4 counts against their cap regardless. They can trade pick 4 separately to NO to generate the shortfall with a cap hold to sign the max. Then


Being a hair short didn't mean signing 4. If they sign the 4th pick and then wait the 30 days to July 31st, they'll be fine no matter what. But NO would have to be ok with that, too. And yes, the cap hold for the 4th pick is the same to LA, signed or unsigned. Signed or unsigned just affects when the salary can be used in a simultaneous trade and when a trade restriction on the player drafted 4th would kick in.



Ultimately, Lebron, AD, Kuzma, Luol Deng's dead cap space, and 9 minimum roster charges equal $79.579m on a $109m cap, which leaves $29.421m under the cap. If, before any trades, you first waive Jemerrio Jones, you're at $32.541m in cap room, which at that point, gets you pretty darned close to a max salary of $32.7m. You could sign the max player (Kawhi, Kemba, Kyrie, Klay, whomever, as long as they're that 30% max, not a Durant 35% max), and then you could make the trade. However, then, if Kuzma is not in the trade, you HAVE to sign the 4th overall pick to send out enough salary to be able to take back AD's salary in 2019-20, and wait 30 days for the trade restriction to lift on that 4th overall pick in order to make a deal work. Again, at that point, $27.093m, so LA would have to send out $21.594m. Even if they included Wagner and Bonga in the outgoing salary, they would only be sending out $21.399m, which is almost $200k too little to work legally. I think that's why the deal is set up as is, because ultimately, Wagner and Bonga's salary doesn't make it work, and LA could send them elsewhere for some value (though they wouldn't have to, as they'd still be able to sign a 30% max if that person was willing to sacrifice about $160k in year one, or dump one of Wagner/Bonga, and they wouldn't have to sacrifice a dime).