Thunder-Minnesota (CP3, sorry!)

[brutalitops]

Wait. How many games.did Russ miss in the last 4 years because of his bad knees and age? And then give me CP3's age and games played last 4 years.

Not as many as Thunder fans wish as he was busy shooting 30% from 3 on 5+ attempts per game and telling everyone in post game conferences that he wasn't going to stop shooting or change his game for anyone. Russ is the worst volume shooter in NBA history. He is less efficient than Wiggins!!! Russ will shoot you out of games and the playoffs and think there is nothing wrong with it because make he'll make his low percentage shots next time.

Houston will miss the playoffs this year because unlike Melo they won't be able to just cut their losses with Russ.

What brought up this rant? what did westbrook do to you. I addressed the poster saying westbrook had **** knees and aging. Once his deal expires he's still younger then what Paul currently is. And way more healthy currently.

[brutalitops]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

[Kizz Fastfists]

What brought up this rant? what did westbrook do to you. I addressed the poster saying westbrook had **** knees and aging. Once his deal expires he's still younger then what Paul currently is. And way more healthy currently.

Russ had had knee surgery every off-season the past 3 or 4 years. His flat jumper is no longer viable because he has no lift from his knees being shot. His athleticism is going fast and he has no skills without that. Russ playing more games than Paul isn't a good thing for his team. If you watched OKC in the playoffs you would understand that Portland left him open and dared him to shoot and he did just that shooting OKC out of the playoffs at 36% shooting. Russ has said repeatedly isn't going to change.

He will continue to not play defense. He will yell at the big men if they rebound instead of blocking out so he can grab the board and chase his triple double. He will continue to take shots he can't make. Russ is one of the most entertaining players to watch in the NBA. He is also one of the worst players to have on your team if you want to win.

[TheNewEra]

Terrible for OKC they don’t need to pay long term money for two terrible players

[Domejandro]

Yeah we're going to take on more salary AND throw in picks.

Is Hayward also available?

You are cutting a lot of salary here.

Whatever Goebbles. We have covered this and why it is not true, but hey "“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.".

Dude, you are factually incorrect (just going to literally quote the poster you keep needlessly badgering with your wrong comments).

Wiggins and Dieng make together over the next four years:

44m
47m
32m
34m

CP3 makes over the next four years:

39m
41m
44m
0

Minnesota literally saves a bit of money this year, six million next year (huge, it gives Minnesota max slot), Minnesota takes on twelve million the year after, and then shaves off Andrew Wiggins' massive thirty-four million in 2022.

So about that whole Goebbels thing....

Again, YEAR 4 doesn't matter, because YEAR 3 MN would have a shot at a MAX slot even with Wiggins, With Paul, that won't happen. He is rationing as are you in a vacuum and not accounting for total inflow/outflow. So, riddle me this is taking Paul worth losing a MAX slot, i.e. creating SPACE? i.e.saving money... or should they forego that, pay players via extensions, increases ect... and not have that chance? Do we assume MN wouldn't spend that money elsewhere or BETTER? In other words you can only compare three years of Paul to three years of Wiggins, because money will be spent by YEAR 4 and not provide savings.

But in YEAR TWO they open up enough space for a max slot. Saying that year four doesn't matter is obviously delusional, of course it matters; when Wiggins expires, Minnesota will only have one year left on Towns' contract and Jarrett Culver will potentially be up for a max if things go well. Getting in that extra year of flexibility before Jarrett Culver's deal is up is a HUGE deal, don't you sit here like a lazy **** snake oil salesman, pretending the max space matters one year, completely ignore a max slot in another year, say shaving off a whole year of thirty-four million "doesn't matter", and then go around telling people that their mentality is comparable to Goebbels. It is legitimately embarrassing.

[Domejandro]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

Minnesota literally saves a boatload of money here while shaving off a perfect margin for a max next year, while massively improving their roster.

People can dislike the trade for whatever reason, but Minnesota fans are coming off absolutely deluded because we are arguing literally factually incorrect statements. Not directed at you specifically (let's be honest, I'm pretty done hiding who it is directed towards at this point), but the Minnesota forum has gone bat **** Looney Toons.

"I recognize the value of potentially getting Chris Paul for Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, but currently I am more comfortable with wanting to see if Andrew Wiggins can succeed in a more space oriented offense, and feel we can use this as a transition year for internal improvement."

That is a fair enough take, but this whole "wE aRE gETtInG ScREwED WiTH tHE CoNTrACtS!!!" thing is factually incorrect and is legitimately driving me to the point of not wanting to engage on anything Minnesota related.

[QRich3]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

It's a perfectly valid point though, you can caricaturize it, but refusing to improve the roster or move on from Wiggins on the basis that you're gonna get a max free agent in 2021 is bad reasoning, whether it's for the Wolves or for the Knicks, or for the Raptors, or the Lakers. Free agency is a long shot game, it's a lot more difficult to find a foundational piece in free agency than it is to find it via trade or the draft. Specially if you're not particularly trending up, or a marketing powerhouse in a big market, which is the Wolves' case.

And say what you want about Paul's contract (which is very ugly), but he's a damn good player still, he's the best chance you have at putting a top player next to Towns and build up some of that momentum to go at free agency later, or adding other guys via trade. And you get to dump Wiggins, which a considerably worse contract than Paul.

Two firsts is overkill though, I would think the Thunder would be ok with a lottery protected one that ends up turning into seconds, or some immediate salary relief that gets them out of the tax, even if it adds more salary in subsequent years.

[ThunderBolt]

I know we have had enough of these and it's probably been done before but...

Thunder send: Paul/Roberson
Wolves send: Wiggins, Dieng, lightly protected 2020/2022 1sts

Why for Minnesota? They get a vet star PG that plays defense and get a wing that if healthy can guard just about anyone. With Teague they can also give Paul ample load management.
Why for OKC? Either dip under the tax or just barely miss it, but they also get another pair of picks and get a chance to hopefully get Wiggins to live up ro his potential. Dieng isn't bad big man depth if they get rid of Adams either.

Just something to clarify, doesn’t a / suggest its either 2020 or 2022 pick? Yet the word 1sts seems to indicate both.

[Balkman32]

I don't think they want to move Wiggins, not yet at least. CP3 would work for Dieng and Teague. I think both teams could agree to this 2 for 1 swap. As it helps the Thunder get closer to under the lux tax. The Wolves get off of Dieng (would have cost them 2 first rounders in February). The Wolves get a first ballot hall of famer, who can hopefully shape Towns and Wiggins unlike Butler.

[Coeur]

Wolves: CP3 and Paul Milsap

Thunder: dieng, Teague

Nugs: Wiggins and Okogie

[taikibansei]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

Minnesota literally saves a boatload of money here while shaving off a perfect margin for a max next year, while massively improving their roster.

People can dislike the trade for whatever reason, but Minnesota fans are coming off absolutely deluded because we are arguing literally factually incorrect statements. Not directed at you specifically (let's be honest, I'm pretty done hiding who it is directed towards at this point), but the Minnesota forum has gone bat **** Looney Toons.

"I recognize the value of potentially getting Chris Paul for Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, but currently I am more comfortable with wanting to see if Andrew Wiggins can succeed in a more space oriented offense, and feel we can use this as a transition year for internal improvement."

That is a fair enough take, but this whole "wE aRE gETtInG ScREwED WiTH tHE CoNTrACtS!!!" thing is factually incorrect and is legitimately driving me to the point of not wanting to engage on anything Minnesota related.

This post just restored my faith in humanity. Thank you.

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh no. If humanity depends upon posts in this forum we are all in deep trouble.

Especially because I am about to post a Waiters thread.

[taikibansei]

Oh no. If humanity depends upon posts in this forum we are all in deep trouble.

Especially because I am about to post a Waiters thread.

We are indeed doomed....

[jscott]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

Minnesota literally saves a boatload of money here while shaving off a perfect margin for a max next year, while massively improving their roster.

People can dislike the trade for whatever reason, but Minnesota fans are coming off absolutely deluded because we are arguing literally factually incorrect statements. Not directed at you specifically (let's be honest, I'm pretty done hiding who it is directed towards at this point), but the Minnesota forum has gone bat **** Looney Toons.

"I recognize the value of potentially getting Chris Paul for Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, but currently I am more comfortable with wanting to see if Andrew Wiggins can succeed in a more space oriented offense, and feel we can use this as a transition year for internal improvement."

That is a fair enough take, but this whole "wE aRE gETtInG ScREwED WiTH tHE CoNTrACtS!!!" thing is factually incorrect and is legitimately driving me to the point of not wanting to engage on anything Minnesota related.

I don't believe the underlined/bolded part is accurate. Even with Teague leaving you'd need to remove all of Gorgui's contract (16m) without taking anything back and this would only save 6m. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I understand it.

[taikibansei]

Im glad the reasoning of this deal by people is "Lol wolves don't sign free agents so trade for everyone else's ****"

Great reasoning guys. Grow up

Minnesota literally saves a boatload of money here while shaving off a perfect margin for a max next year, while massively improving their roster.

People can dislike the trade for whatever reason, but Minnesota fans are coming off absolutely deluded because we are arguing literally factually incorrect statements. Not directed at you specifically (let's be honest, I'm pretty done hiding who it is directed towards at this point), but the Minnesota forum has gone bat **** Looney Toons.

"I recognize the value of potentially getting Chris Paul for Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, but currently I am more comfortable with wanting to see if Andrew Wiggins can succeed in a more space oriented offense, and feel we can use this as a transition year for internal improvement."

That is a fair enough take, but this whole "wE aRE gETtInG ScREwED WiTH tHE CoNTrACtS!!!" thing is factually incorrect and is legitimately driving me to the point of not wanting to engage on anything Minnesota related.

I don't believe the underlined/bolded part is accurate. Even with Teague leaving you'd need to remove all of Gorgui's contract (16m) without taking anything back and this would only save 6m. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I understand it.

The OP includes Gorgui:

Thunder send: Paul/Roberson
Wolves send: Wiggins, Dieng, lightly protected 2020/2022 1sts

Roberson is an expiring. I post and break down the exact numbers on page one of this thread, and Domejandro has reposted them in a clearer fashion above.

[jscott]

Minnesota literally saves a boatload of money here while shaving off a perfect margin for a max next year, while massively improving their roster.

People can dislike the trade for whatever reason, but Minnesota fans are coming off absolutely deluded because we are arguing literally factually incorrect statements. Not directed at you specifically (let's be honest, I'm pretty done hiding who it is directed towards at this point), but the Minnesota forum has gone bat **** Looney Toons.

"I recognize the value of potentially getting Chris Paul for Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, but currently I am more comfortable with wanting to see if Andrew Wiggins can succeed in a more space oriented offense, and feel we can use this as a transition year for internal improvement."

That is a fair enough take, but this whole "wE aRE gETtInG ScREwED WiTH tHE CoNTrACtS!!!" thing is factually incorrect and is legitimately driving me to the point of not wanting to engage on anything Minnesota related.

I don't believe the underlined/bolded part is accurate. Even with Teague leaving you'd need to remove all of Gorgui's contract (16m) without taking anything back and this would only save 6m. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I understand it.

The OP includes Gorgui:

Thunder send: Paul/Roberson
Wolves send: Wiggins, Dieng, lightly protected 2020/2022 1sts

Roberson is an expiring. I post and break down the exact numbers on page one of this thread, and Domejandro has reposted them in a clearer fashion above.

Right, but if Paul makes 10m more than Wiggins (even if Roberson is expiring) that eats into the 16m salary that you send out for Dieng. That's a difference of only 6m and coupled with Teague's expiring that's 25m but considering the Wolves are over the cap they would need to clear up more (roughly 10m this year or 35-36m total) to get a max.

I'll look back at those posts to see if I am missing anything but this math doesn't seem to add up.

EDIT: After looking at those posts, I am pretty sure I am correct. It's only a 6m total savings which is not enough for a max slot for the Wolves (even if Teague walks). They'd need to shed all of Gorgui's contract (16m), let Teague expire (19m), and not be paying 10m more than Wiggins (aka Chris Paul) makes to get a max in the next 2 years.

While I agree, for year 4 you'd save some money, it does little-to-nothing for the Wolves years 1-3 capwise.

[ThatBoyNick]

You are cutting a lot of salary here.

Whatever Goebbles. We have covered this and why it is not true, but hey "“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.".

Yet again, it's a basic math issue:

CP3: three years, $124,076,442 ($38,506,482, $41,358,814, $44,211,146)

Roberson: one year, $10,740,741

OKC Total: $134, 817,183

compared to:

Wiggins: four years, $121,200,000 ($27,270,000, $29,290,000, $31,310,000, $33,330,000)

Dieng: two years, 33,516,853 ($16,229,213, $17,287,640)

Twoves Total: $154,716, 853

Given that $154,716, 853 is a larger sum than $134, 817,183, it would seem he is not "lying," huh? (And what is it with the allowed insults?)

Wiggins/Dieng is objectively the worst combo here IMO. I personally view Wiggins worth as, at max around 5-10 mill per year. Having him locked up for 4 more years around 30 mill is a disaster IMO.

[brutalitops]

Wolves: CP3 and Paul Milsap

Thunder: dieng, Teague

Nugs: Wiggins and Okogie

Can we also include an unprotected first with Okogie while were killing the franchise?

[HartfordWhalers]

Wolves: CP3 and Paul Milsap

Thunder: dieng, Teague

Nugs: Wiggins and Okogie

Can we also include an unprotected first with Okogie while were killing the franchise?

Wiggins Dieng and Okogie for Milsap and Paul looks like a huge win for Minnesota to me, and that is trying to not match the hyperbole that your response clearly has.

[Coeur]

Wolves: CP3 and Paul Milsap

Thunder: dieng, Teague

Nugs: Wiggins and Okogie

Can we also include an unprotected first with Okogie while were killing the franchise?

Cp3 and Paul millsap would be great for the wolves