Chris Paul to Miami

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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#21 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:29 am

BBallFreak wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:The trade works as JJ and Dragic for Paul with or without Dion's salary on the trade checker (to my surprise, that's a big salary).

(a) Would either side do it straight up for JJ and Dragic?
...

(a) OKC probably would, Miami cannot. Literally, cannot. They have to be below the apron due to the sign and trade with Jimmy Butler.
...


Not sure I understand why. According to both trade checker and ESPN trade machine it works and saves the heat $4 million (for the 1st year of the deal which is the one that counts if I understand what is going on). That's without Waiters of course. So, why can't Miami make this deal with no other players involved (assuming the pick compensation gets worked out).
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#22 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:34 am

penbeast0 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:The trade works as JJ and Dragic for Paul with or without Dion's salary on the trade checker (to my surprise, that's a big salary).

(a) Would either side do it straight up for JJ and Dragic?
...

(a) OKC probably would, Miami cannot. Literally, cannot. They have to be below the apron due to the sign and trade with Jimmy Butler.
...


Not sure I understand why. According to both trade checker and ESPN trade machine it works and saves the heat $4 million (for the 1st year of the deal which is the one that counts if I understand what is going on). That's without Waiters of course. So, why can't Miami make this deal with no other players involved (assuming the pick compensation gets worked out).
From my understanding of the numbers, JJ ($15.1 million) and Dragic ($19 million) make less, combined, than Paul ($35.8 million).

I don't see how that saves Miami money.
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#23 » by Hoops23 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:12 am

If CP3 wants to play with the Heat, he should give the Heat the option to the last yr of his contract, not a player option.

Miami has a plan with its 2021 cap space. In order to bypass that, it should be a very very good deal.
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#24 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:56 am

BBallFreak wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:(a) OKC probably would, Miami cannot. Literally, cannot. They have to be below the apron due to the sign and trade with Jimmy Butler.
...


Not sure I understand why. According to both trade checker and ESPN trade machine it works and saves the heat $4 million (for the 1st year of the deal which is the one that counts if I understand what is going on). That's without Waiters of course. So, why can't Miami make this deal with no other players involved (assuming the pick compensation gets worked out).
From my understanding of the numbers, JJ ($15.1 million) and Dragic ($19 million) make less, combined, than Paul ($35.8 million).

I don't see how that saves Miami money.


Add on Waiters for Roberson then; and then go back to arguing about pick compensation.
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#25 » by Cappy_Smurf » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:06 am

My gut feeling is that Riley will cave at some point.

Butler + Paul makes for a much more interesting season than just Butler.

I also believe OKC is prepared to hold on to CP3 until the trade deadline if they don't get a deal they like. You never know what team might suffer injuries or suddenly find themselves with a disgruntled player who wants out. I don't see any reason OKC should be in a hurry to use picks to dump Paul.
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#26 » by jbk1234 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:10 am

I genuinely don't see these two teams working it out anytime soon. OKC isn't motivated to give up picks in a rebuild. Miami wants its picks back. CP3 isn't presently motivated to give up that last year.

It will take time, and perhaps external events, for this deal to go through.

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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#27 » by gom » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:25 am

I don't agree that Butler + Paul is that much better than what we have. As I've said, I'd like to see how the team plays out. We've had a pretty good off-season. We essentially got Butler + Leonard for Richardson + Whiteside and a 2023 protected first. Sometimes the best deals you make are the ones you don't do.

If we could get our 2021 & 2023 picks back, I would be tempted to trade for Paul, even knowing it might eliminate our chance for a run. It just makes sense to get the picks back, so we have them available in case a player we really want comes up on the market. The problem would be, then, where we would get space to sign the targeted player when we already have a high tax situation.

Miami needs to take a break and see what we've got. It could be that Paul gets more suitors by December (like Lakers) who aren't in the same situation we are in. Then OKC can still get out, but I think they'll end up giving up picks to whoever acquires him (unless they get the Wiggins deal offered.)
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#28 » by puppa bear » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am

gom wrote:I don't agree that Butler + Paul is that much better than what we have. As I've said, I'd like to see how the team plays out. We've had a pretty good off-season. We essentially got Butler + Leonard for Richardson + Whiteside and a 2023 protected first. Sometimes the best deals you make are the ones you don't do.

If we could get our 2021 & 2023 picks back, I would be tempted to trade for Paul, even knowing it might eliminate our chance for a run. It just makes sense to get the picks back, so we have them available in case a player we really want comes up on the market. The problem would be, then, where we would get space to sign the targeted player when we already have a high tax situation.

Miami needs to take a break and see what we've got. It could be that Paul gets more suitors by December (like Lakers) who aren't in the same situation we are in. Then OKC can still get out, but I think they'll end up giving up picks to whoever acquires him (unless they get the Wiggins deal offered.)

I’m in the camp of Heat fans who would like to see what happens with CP and our picks back. I don’t think Riley should cave on that stance - if it costs us completing the deal then so be it.

The only way I can see a cave-in where we only get 1 pick back would be to swap the 2020 for the 2021 & 23. That frees up our future picks to be still able to send out up to 3 (22, 24 & 26).

CP does have a habit of making teams better when he arrives, he just seems to grate on co-stars. It’s been mentioned on the Heat board that the stars he’s had issues are not like Butler, it’s probably actually more like they’ve both had the same issues: players taking trainings, prep and games seriously/professionally (Griffin/KAT/Embiid), improving their efforts off-ball (Harden/Wiggins), ball freezing and stalling flow (Harden/Simmons). Butler is a different cut to other stars CP has played with and while they’ll clash it will be in a way that ends up making both better. CP will push Butler to be the best he can be and Butler will challenge him to keep up.

Having said all that: his contract is horrendous & we need incentives to take on that deal. If we can take on a contract we honestly don’t want and get the assets/ability to trade for someone we do (Beal) then it’s a deal worth doing. If not, then we’re not interested.
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Re: Chris Paul to Miami 

Post#29 » by gom » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:49 pm

PuppaBear, you cannot have both. The math isn't going to work. Once you have Butler + Paul committed, you're done. You're not getting Beal. Now... if you don't trade for Paul, if you use the expirings at the end of the season and maybe the 2020 draft pick with Washington, if they accept Beal may be leaving anyway, then you have a chance to pair Butler and Beal, which will be a better combination. Especially if you still have Bam & Winslow around, sign Dragic as a reserve point guard, and let's say also that Herro & Okpala & Nunn & the others show something.

I don't see this as happening. I think it was a mistake for OKC to trade for Paul if they thought he'd be easy to move. They still might be able to get something done. I like their idea of trading for Wall or Wiggins actually for all the reasons everyone else gives on the board, though I also consider the perspective of the Wizard fans that support Wall.

Wall to OKC for Paul (Washington probably adds a couple picks)
Wiggins to OKC for Paul (Minnesota should probably send a pick here too)

These both look like smarter moves for OKC than sending picks to Miami for Chris Paul, which is the only way Miami should accept him, and even then it's a terrible move for Miami (for the reasons I stated before.)
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