Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Trade#1
Cleveland trades: Kevin Love
Utah trades: Joe Ingles | Dante Exum | Tony Bradley | '20 top 5 protected frp | 2 srp's
Why? Cleveland gets some value out of Love. Utah adds the perfect frontcourt partner for Gobert.
Trade #2
Cleveland trades: Cedi Osman
Sacramento trades: Tyler Lydon
Why? Cleveland adds a big that can stretch the floor. Sacramento gets a young wing to add to their core.
PG: Collin Sexton | Brandon Knight | Matthew Dellavedova
SG: Darius Garland | Kevin Porter Jr. | Dante Exum | Jordan Clarkson
SF: Joe Ingles | Dylan Windler
PF: Tyler Lydon | Larry Nance Jr.
C: Tristan Thompson | Tony Bradley | John Henson | Ante Zizic
Coach: John Beilein
Cleveland trades: Kevin Love
Utah trades: Joe Ingles | Dante Exum | Tony Bradley | '20 top 5 protected frp | 2 srp's
Why? Cleveland gets some value out of Love. Utah adds the perfect frontcourt partner for Gobert.
Trade #2
Cleveland trades: Cedi Osman
Sacramento trades: Tyler Lydon
Why? Cleveland adds a big that can stretch the floor. Sacramento gets a young wing to add to their core.
PG: Collin Sexton | Brandon Knight | Matthew Dellavedova
SG: Darius Garland | Kevin Porter Jr. | Dante Exum | Jordan Clarkson
SF: Joe Ingles | Dylan Windler
PF: Tyler Lydon | Larry Nance Jr.
C: Tristan Thompson | Tony Bradley | John Henson | Ante Zizic
Coach: John Beilein
Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
I'm goign to tell you right now that people are going to say Love doesn't have that kind of value and that Osman is worth more than Lydon.
Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Utah's already traded a 1st to Memphis (with protection that extends several years that makes trading another complicated) - they can't move a 1st for several more years. I'd figure Cleveland would want a better asset in return then Ingles - who's quite good for a win-now team but too old to have much value for Cleveland. A Love trade makes more sense to a team with 1 or 2 year bad contracts to move out.
For the 2nd deal, does Lydon even play for the Kings? I don't see Cedi as better then a backup SF but Lydon seems more 3rd string.
For the 2nd deal, does Lydon even play for the Kings? I don't see Cedi as better then a backup SF but Lydon seems more 3rd string.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
This is exactly the kind of trash heap people think CLE would accept for Love.
other than Jingles who also aint no spring chicken and doesn't fit the timeline in CLE any more
than Love does , all other so called assets retuning are negative value.
Exum is wrong position and hasn't hardly earned the right to play in the league , Bradley should be out of the league already
and I'm not sold Lydon makes it out of training camp in trade 2 which the Cavs would never do as well with Osman part of the core.
Why these terrible valuations of Love continue is beyond me. His on court production was actually lessoned playing with lebron and Irving and last season with them gone he was good as to be expected when he played despite being out of game shape when he came back from missing most of the season which again was due to the TANK where CLE wanted him to take extended time off. They would not have done that if they were trying to up his value for trades this summer.
Utah's picks what they do have won't be good.
other than Jingles who also aint no spring chicken and doesn't fit the timeline in CLE any more
than Love does , all other so called assets retuning are negative value.
Exum is wrong position and hasn't hardly earned the right to play in the league , Bradley should be out of the league already
and I'm not sold Lydon makes it out of training camp in trade 2 which the Cavs would never do as well with Osman part of the core.
Why these terrible valuations of Love continue is beyond me. His on court production was actually lessoned playing with lebron and Irving and last season with them gone he was good as to be expected when he played despite being out of game shape when he came back from missing most of the season which again was due to the TANK where CLE wanted him to take extended time off. They would not have done that if they were trying to up his value for trades this summer.
Utah's picks what they do have won't be good.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Revenged25 wrote:I'm goign to tell you right now that... Love doesn't have that kind of value.
This.
Also, lmao at that post by stillwater.
Utah isn't trading anything close to this for Love. He can't stay healthy and has a terrible contract.
Love is going to rot in Cleveland for the remainder of his contract if Cav fan's assessments here are anything close to what their FO believes.
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Dude needs to wear #50, that way when he's on the fast break, everybody can yell "Here comes five-oh!"
Dude needs to wear #50, that way when he's on the fast break, everybody can yell "Here comes five-oh!"
Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Cappy_Smurf wrote:Revenged25 wrote:I'm goign to tell you right now that... Love has that kind of value.
This.
Also, lmao at that post by stillwater.
Utah isn't trading anything close to this for Love.
Love is going to help the young Cleveland guards for the remainder of his contract if Cav fan's assessments here are anything close to what their FO believes.
Looks better now.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Cappy_Smurf wrote:Revenged25 wrote:I'm goign to tell you right now that... Love doesn't have that kind of value.
This.
Also, lmao at that post by stillwater.
Utah isn't trading anything close to this for Love. He can't stay healthy and has a terrible contract.
Love is going to rot in Cleveland for the remainder of his contract if Cav fan's assessments here are anything close to what their FO believes.
right now you are right Love needs to play like Minny love before hes moved at the dl.
they dont have any need to sell low as his veteran leadership is valuable for roster development and his on court impact is above avg. even if not worth his deal. i mean is tobias worth his deal what about others paid more than actual value. its not uncommon anymore.
regardless cle isnt in any hurry to trade Love and if the value is as low as it seems they would be stupid to value 2020 cap space over keeping him at minimum until he proves worth his contract or close to it.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
My dude is trading the only wing defender on the roster for a guy that two other teams have cut loose. I just can't anymore.Revenged25 wrote:I'm goign to tell you right now that people are going to say Love doesn't have that kind of value and that Osman is worth more than Lydon.
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cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Joe Ingles is better than Love.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
JColl
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
babyjax13 wrote:Joe Ingles is better than Love.
Right... and Cedi Osman is better than Donovan Mitchell...
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Revenged25 wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Joe Ingles is better than Love.
Right... and Cedi Osman is better than Donovan Mitchell...
It sounds like an outrageous call and yes, Jingles will never average 20/10, but he is GREAT Glue guy and elite shooter. Passes the ball VERY well and plays solid D.
I am biased, but with Love's injury history and performances in the last 18 months, they aren't that far apart
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Revenged25 wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Joe Ingles is better than Love.
Right... and Cedi Osman is better than Donovan Mitchell...
Advance stats that adjust for position (well, that's not exactly what +/- stats and VORP do...but approximately) pretty much all come out in favor of Ingles (Love has a large edge in PER because it weights rebounding as much as assists). At this point, Love is a role player, and Ingles is a higher quality role player.
RPM (VORP) Minutes/g (games played) PER
Ingles 18-19: 2.91 (2.5) 31 (82) 13.4
Love 18-19: 1.36 (0) 27 (22) 19.5
Ingles 17-18: 3.5 (3.3) 31 (82) 14.4
Love 17-18: 3.4 (1.4) 28 (59) 22.4
Ingles 16-17: 2.55 (2.3) 24 (82) 12.4
Love 16-17: 5.03 (1.3) 31 (60) 21.1
You'd have to have a lot of confidence that Love can return to his form from 3 seasons ago, and ignore the last two years where Ingles has simply been more impactful. Also, FWIW they are almost exactly 1 year in age apart, and Joe has less miles than Love and has been more durable, so I don't think that's an advantage for Love, either.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
JColl
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
babyjax13 wrote:Revenged25 wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Joe Ingles is better than Love.
Right... and Cedi Osman is better than Donovan Mitchell...
Advance stats that adjust for position (well, that's not exactly what +/- stats and VORP do...but approximately) pretty much all come out in favor of Ingles (Love has a large edge in PER because it weights rebounding as much as assists). At this point, Love is a role player, and Ingles is a higher quality role player.
RPM (VORP) Minutes/g (games played) PER
Ingles 18-19: 2.91 (2.5) 31 (82) 13.4
Love 18-19: 1.36 (0) 27 (22) 19.5
Ingles 17-18: 3.5 (3.3) 31 (82) 14.4
Love 17-18: 3.4 (1.4) 28 (59) 22.4
Ingles 16-17: 2.55 (2.3) 24 (82) 12.4
Love 16-17: 5.03 (1.3) 31 (60) 21.1
You'd have to have a lot of confidence that Love can return to his form from 3 seasons ago, and ignore the last two years where Ingles has simply been more impactful. Also, FWIW they are almost exactly 1 year in age apart, and Joe has less miles than Love and has been more durable, so I don't think that's an advantage for Love, either.
And that is a perfect example of how stats can lie, along with this example here.
RPM (VORP) Minutes/g (games played) PER
Klay 18-19: -0.33 (.8) 34 (78) 16.6
Danny Green 18-19: 4.73 (2.7) 27.7 (80) 13
Klay 17-18: 1.81 (.9) 34.3 (73) 16
Green 17-18: 0 (1.4) 25.6 (70) 11.4
Klay 16-17: 2.33 (1.5) 34 (78) 17.4
Green 16-17: 1.26 (2) 26.6 (68) 10.1
I mean based off those stats I could make the argument that there is little to no difference between Danny Green and Klay Thompson, maybe even with Green being ahead since there is such a huge difference in their usage%.
Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Trade 2 - is a nonstarter just because of team balance. CLE doesn't have SF depth, at all.
Trade 1 - i'd rather have Love than Ingles. The rest doesn't do much for me so i'd just rather pass.
Trade 1 - i'd rather have Love than Ingles. The rest doesn't do much for me so i'd just rather pass.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Jazz can't afford to lock up that much money in Kevin Love. Gonna be maxing and or supermaxing Gobert and Mitchell soon. Jazz need to be thrifty and go with guys like Jeff Green for the min instead of Love for 30mil a year for years to come.
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
jazzfan1971 wrote:Jazz can't afford to lock up that much money in Kevin Love. Gonna be maxing and or supermaxing Gobert and Mitchell soon. Jazz need to be thrifty and go with guys like Jeff Green for the min instead of Love for 30mil a year for years to come.
Right Utah is a terrible trade partner with CLE because Utah would have to give up flex and lose better players than what is offered here to get Love in the first place. I'm not sure they even have the players that would appeal to CLE even if they would part with them.
People need to realize CLE didn't have any intention of trying to move KLove this summer coming off a tanking year where he was basically told to stay home , & so knowing his value is lower than what he actually brings to the table when healthy had no intentions of moving him now as that would return nothing of value.
They will explore trade possibilities if and only if he says he wants out, or someone calls with a better than the bs offers thrown around on these boards which is certainly a reasonable possibility provided he plays hard,plays well and leads the Cavs to a surprisingly decent record the first half of the season where the buzz is KLove is back...
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Revenged25 wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Revenged25 wrote:
Right... and Cedi Osman is better than Donovan Mitchell...
Advance stats that adjust for position (well, that's not exactly what +/- stats and VORP do...but approximately) pretty much all come out in favor of Ingles (Love has a large edge in PER because it weights rebounding as much as assists). At this point, Love is a role player, and Ingles is a higher quality role player.
RPM (VORP) Minutes/g (games played) PER
Ingles 18-19: 2.91 (2.5) 31 (82) 13.4
Love 18-19: 1.36 (0) 27 (22) 19.5
Ingles 17-18: 3.5 (3.3) 31 (82) 14.4
Love 17-18: 3.4 (1.4) 28 (59) 22.4
Ingles 16-17: 2.55 (2.3) 24 (82) 12.4
Love 16-17: 5.03 (1.3) 31 (60) 21.1
You'd have to have a lot of confidence that Love can return to his form from 3 seasons ago, and ignore the last two years where Ingles has simply been more impactful. Also, FWIW they are almost exactly 1 year in age apart, and Joe has less miles than Love and has been more durable, so I don't think that's an advantage for Love, either.
And that is a perfect example of how stats can lie, along with this example here.
RPM (VORP) Minutes/g (games played) PER
Klay 18-19: -0.33 (.8) 34 (78) 16.6
Danny Green 18-19: 4.73 (2.7) 27.7 (80) 13
Klay 17-18: 1.81 (.9) 34.3 (73) 16
Green 17-18: 0 (1.4) 25.6 (70) 11.4
Klay 16-17: 2.33 (1.5) 34 (78) 17.4
Green 16-17: 1.26 (2) 26.6 (68) 10.1
I mean based off those stats I could make the argument that there is little to no difference between Danny Green and Klay Thompson, maybe even with Green being ahead since there is such a huge difference in their usage%.
I actually don't think you could make that argument, and if anything, Love's production with his high usage (about 10 percent) should make Ingles even more appealing. But as usual, we disagree, which is fine. It's still obvious that we aren't good trade partners. Utah doesn't want Love's salary or fragility, Cleveland expects young assets in return. If he goes anywhere, Portland is the right call.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
JColl
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Re: Cleveland trade suggestions w/ Utah & Sac
Jazz aren't going to offer a package like that for Love.
Love is a questionable contract.
Love is a questionable contract.
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