Atlanta Off Season Review:

Moderators: pacers33granger, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, Trader_Joe, loserX

Grade the offseason

A
7
23%
A-
5
16%
B+
2
6%
B
5
16%
B-
7
23%
C+
0
No votes
C
1
3%
C-
3
10%
D
0
No votes
F
1
3%
 
Total votes: 31

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Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#1 » by Mamba4Goat » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:49 pm

Enjoy your reading, guys! We will be dropping a new one every Monday-Wednesday-Friday going in alphabetical order! Let me know if you have any questions! Thanks!

Atlanta Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Dewayne Dedmon
Taurean Prince
Kent Bazemore

Losses:
Omari Spellman
Miles Plumlee
Vince Carter (may get resigned?)
Random mins.

Draft:
4; DeAndre Hunter
10: Cam Reddish
34: Bruno Fernando

Trades:
(With New Orleans) Jaxson Hayes, NAW, Didi Louzada, 2020 Cleveland 1st for DeAndre Hunter, Jordan Bone, Solomon Hill, 2023 conditional 2nd
(With Philly) Jordan Bone, 2020 2nd, and 2023 2nd (best of Atl/Cha/BK), for Bruno Frenando
(With BK) Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd for Allen Crabbe, NAW, 2020 1st
(With Mempghis:) Miles Plumlee, Solomon Hill for Chandler Parsons
(With Portland) Kent Bazmore for Evan Turner
(With GSW) Omari Spellman for Damian Jones, 2026 2nd
(With Miami) Bol Bol for 2024 2nd (51-55) and cash (TBD)
(With GSW) Eric Paschall for 2024 2nd and cash

Free Agency:
DeAndre Hunter (rookie deal)
Cam Reddish (rookie deal)
Bruno Fernando (rookie deal)
Jabari Parker (2/$13mil with a PO)

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
PG: Trae Young/Evan Turner
SG: Kevin Heurter/Allen Crabbe/Cam Reddish/Charlie Brown
SF: Deandre Hunter/Deandre Bembry
PF: John Collins/Jabari Parker/Chandler Parsons
C: Alex Len/Damian Jones/Bruno Fernando


Mamba4Goat wrote:Mamba4Goat Review

Key Losses:
The losses between Bazemore and Prince won't really be as bad (or actually key losses) as it opens up the minutes for Hunter/Reddish/Heurter although their win totals probably reflect that. Dedmon on the other hand will be missed a decent amount. With Len being the only tolerable center on the roster it'll hurt a bit.

Losses:
Vince Carter is probably the only guy of note here. He seemed to be a great vet role model and I really hope they bring him back.

Draft:
The Hawks brass is a group of guys who know what they want and I can respect that. Getting their guy in Hunter at 4 was a nice grab, taking a chance on Cam was also a good move in my book. Hunter is a guy who has a nice floor and is a great role player to fit next to Trae, Collins and Heurter. At some point you have to stop reaching for guys who have potential and grab guys who have likely higher floors and if you get a RoCo type guy over a star, then that's okay as you still have Young and Collins to lean on. Their wing defense will be nice going forward with Huerter and Hunter. Adding Cam as a guy who has potential makes up for the fact that Hunter doesn't have superstar potential. Reddish may have been the guy who had to sacrifice the most for the awesome Duke team, and hoping on that and that Atlanta's guys and a great passing PG like Young may be able to coax more out of it.

Trades:
I like the Prince trade for them. They needed to open up wing minutes and resigning Prince wasn't likely. 2 1sts for taking on Crabbe and getting rid of Prince is a home run in my book.
The move up to get Hunter was an overpay but I'm not doubting it. It gets Mamba's seal of approval.
The Jones trade was meh. They got a 2nd and that was a plus.
Turner gives them a "point guard" at least. Kinda? Better fit/less redundancy than Baze at least.

Free Agency:
I like the flier on Parker. It's a nice low risk flier. Even though position-wise it's not the greatest or most sensible move but a guy who still has star potential is at least still worth a look. No signed backup point guard or center hurts a lot though.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
Evan Turner being their defacto point guard is going to be an okay move for awhile but Young is really the only point guard on the roster. I do like their wing depth and how that's set up though. Collins/Parker is also a pretty nice pairing of 4's.

Needs:
As mentioned above a 2nd real point guard and a quality back up center. At center they'll be trusting a lot of minutes to guys who may not deserve them or be ready yet. That being said the market isn't exactly the ripest with centers/PG's anymore. (Kris Dunn trade?)

Additional Thoughts:
I honestly love the way the Hawks are set up and I love how big of a go getter their FO is. I think they're still a bit away and I would probably have tried to get a few more good vet influences around but I'm pretty content with what they're doing and aside from Brooklyn, I think they're my favorite young front office that is/was rebuilding.

Projected Win/Loss: 25-57
(disclaimer: I'm lazily not doing the math to give perfect win/losses for all the teams)
I don't think the Hawks will be putting things together quite yet. Between the growing pain of their youngsters and their few holes/lack of vets I think they don't do so hot, but look a lot better towards the end of the season.
Off-Season Grade: B-
Still really lacking a backup PG (come on, Lin!) and a backup center, however I'm pretty high with a lot of their other moves.


HW's Atlanta Offseason Review

Key Losses:
none

This was a team with the 28th best defense and the 23rd best offense. They were a bottom 5 team when 4 other teams tanked brazenly. Losing a pair of so so vets in Dedmon and Bazemore is not a key loss, neither fit the team's long term core. And I will say that Prince being a subpar rotational player on a bottom 5 team with highly questionable defensive metrics while being old for a rookie contract player and one year from a eh, pay him him or let him go for free stage makes him not a key lose. It was the perfect time to sell low, before prices dropped further.

Losses:
Getting rid of a 22 year old project center taken with a first round pick (even barely one) after just 1 year is the closest thing to a key loss the Hawks had. I debated talking myself into listing it as a key loss, even if there is a 90% chance he ends up out of the league in 2 years.

Draft:
I'm a little worried by the critiques I hear about Hunter. Bad handle, slow shot, 22 this season, no elite skills. Better shooting Evan Turner is all I hear, and seeing statistical modes down on him along with the alarming weaknesses isn't great.

I've heard his defense will be great. I have concerns there too. 22 steals in 38 games scares me. Steals tend to be a nice stat for translating college to the NBA, and a feel for how active a guys motor is. (Yes, they can be a bad sign in the nba, of a guy who goes for the big play and gives up the easy layups as a result).

My draft takes this year will be less substantial than they have been previously, but I'm not a fan of the pick especially given the cost to move up.

Reddish fixes much of what is wrong with Hunter (A full extra steal a game, two years younger, more upside), and then has a sub 50% TS%. I'm okay with the pick, but it clearly has bust potential because it also has boom potential and I probably would have gone a little different here as well.

It should be interesting, because both players had some red flags enough that you saw takes beforehand like:
Some of the players who might be drafted highly but our model isn’t as fond of include Virginia’s De’Andre Hunter (fifth in the scout rankings vs. 14th in our projections), Duke’s Cam Reddish (seventh vs. 12th),

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-top-50-nba-draft-prospects-according-to-our-carmelo-projections/

Bruno apparently takes over as the new Spellman, which is good as that spot opened up.

Trades:
Hard to seperate the trades from the picks. But in short I would be much happier with Hayes and NAW on Atlanta than Hunter even before they took on the money of Hill.

I ****loved**** the Crabbe trade for Atlanta. Absolutely loved it. NAW will be great as part of the core. Having a first in 20 when Durant might not come back and Kyrie could toxically mess the team up is an awesome rebuilding asset, and this is exactly the sort of trade I think they should have done. Prince was at his sell by now or get stuck holding the bag stage. Perfect style move for a team in Atlantas position.

That said, I come to the trade with new orleans and I wish I saw Hunter as a clear cut future starter, as then it is worth the move. But they traded 8, 17, and the cap space of basically another 17 for a guy who within a day of the draft was at one point mocked 7 by espn. If this was a move up for a Luka style prospect, I love the ballsiness and $1.50 in change for a $1 piece is worth it. I just don't see the $1 piece, and thus don't like it.

For swapping out bad contracts, I have no issue. Sure, might as well put all your worthless money in less roster spots, although I would cut him and make it in zero roster spots. And I am not sure how Atlanta didn't get a 2nd swapping Bazemore for Turner. I feel like they should have been able to get slightly less money back, even if the player was more worthless. Mozgov and 2nd for Bazemore; something like that. Turner is a much better sf than a pg, so the whole idea of it seems off unless it is trying to tank?

As mentioned in the losses, I am not a big fan of cashing out Spellman after just one season. It probably is fine but I would be a touch more patient with a raw bigman.

Then we get to the 2nd rounders. They sold 1.5 of the 2 they had, getting back half the value in cash for one and all he vaue for cash in the other. And then they turned around and traded to better 2nds to get back up to 34. I would much have preferred to see them not lose the good seconds (2020 Atlanta 2nd and the best of ABC in 2023) and instead move up with 41 and 44 (which should get you to 34ish.). Future draft assets got depleted.

Free Agency:
Would rather see 2/18 with a TO than 2/13 with a PO for Jabari. Atlanta either created a mild bad contract or will have to renegotiate with an ufa in 1 year. I just don't see the upside to the team here.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
Well, that team should stay bottom 5 Again, I'm low on the fit of Turner at backup pg, the entire center rotation (including Len), and the roster is relying on youth to an extent that probably won't result in many wins.

Needs:
A third core prospect to go with Collins and Trae. Did they get that yet? Hopefully it is Hunter and/or Reddish. And fundamentally, as with all rebuild teams, a blue chip of a single star to build around as possible, in this superstar league.

Additional Thoughts:
Len is the starter. Bembry is still in the league. It will be interesting to see how active the Hawks are with an trades of their remaining older players, after having sat on their hands previously.


Projected Win/Loss: 26-56
Take their lumps and get ready to add one more offseason of improvements through draft and trade.

[u]Off-Season Grade: [u] C-
It all depends on how Hunter and Reddish pan out. But I'm not in love with the gambles after loving how they started off. Could have been a straight C.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#2 » by loserX » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 am

First of all, great to see these back, and kudos to you guys for putting in a *lot* of effort to put together these very thorough, well-thought-out reviews. Looking forward to some good discussions in these threads.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#3 » by EazyRoc » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:21 am

Coming from a Hawks fan these were pretty damn good. Thanks guys
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#4 » by loserX » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:30 am

Best move: Executing their plan on draft day. It's clear they had two targets in mind: Hunter and Reddish, and it was equally clear that that wasn't going to happen with #8 and 10. So they were aggressive in selling their capspace, taking Crabbe to land #17, and taking Hill to move 8 and 17 for 4. They ended up with exactly who they wanted, selling only capspace they would have struggled to sign guys with anyway, and a few extra later picks they had lying around. Whatever one thinks of Hunter and Reddish, the way they got there was smart.

Worst move: After that, I wasn't really a fan of their other player-for-player trades. I agree with my esteemed colleagues that Bazemore-for-Turner feels light, and trading Plumlee and Hill (neither are great, but they can play basketball) for a broken Chandler Parsons looks a bit off too. I'm not saying the team left multiple first rounders on the table or anything, but neither of these looks like wins either.

One question: We all remember the Horford/Millsap Hawks, a team of "good" that never broke through ("good" isn't good enough against peak LeBron!). Those days are over and the team is reloading with prospects: who among them can get through "good" to something really special? That's what Atlanta will have to figure out, otherwise they may end up in a familiar place: good, but not quite good enough.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#5 » by BullyKing » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:59 am

I think you guys are being a bit harsh. It wasn't a home run or anything but I think it's a solid B. The main issue with Atlanta is that it's tough to see a top-10 player on that team. Is Trae Young and the Hawks just the East version of Devin Booker and the Suns? But really that is a consequence of last year's mistake of passing on Doncic.

So if I'm grading solely on this offseason, I can't give them too many demerits for not finding that lead star since I don't really see a realistic way that could have happened. They made a great trade with Prince and kicked some assets down the road. I don't really love the guys they targeted in the draft but it's not like there were any no doubters in that range and at least they balanced the floor and ceiling risks between the two. They lost Dedmon who was good for them (yes, more value walking for nothing) and sold some 2nds. Parsons trade didn't make sense to me.

Typing all of that out, maybe it was worse than I initially thought. But while they might have lost some value on the margins, they didn't make any huge mistakes and took some reasonable chances while maintaining flexibility. And there are a lot of teams that had a lot worse of an offseason.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#6 » by azuresou1 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:18 am

I think I speak for most Hawks fans when I say that we see this as - at worst - a B+ offseason. Personally I think it's the best offseason we've had in my lifetime.

Realistically, we walked into this offseason with the goal of acquiring more long term assets - assets that will not help us this upcoming season, but will position us for success 2, 3 years down the line. The secondary goal was to not tack on long term cap.

We achieved both those goals.

* We kept EVERY long term asset that we cared about

* We picked up THREE players that we had ranked highly, all at positions of need

* We have only $33M in committed contracts for next year

* We maintained and picked up more picks for the future

Am I disappointed to see Dedmon walk? Yeah, but again this season is purely a developmental season - it's irrelevant in the big picture.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#7 » by Mamba4Goat » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:00 am

azuresou1 wrote:I think I speak for most Hawks fans when I say that we see this as - at worst - a B+ offseason. Personally I think it's the best offseason we've had in my lifetime.
While saying it's the best one you've had in your lifetime may be extreme as a fan I totally get you being high on this off season and stoked.

Realistically, we walked into this offseason with the goal of acquiring more long term assets - assets that will not help us this upcoming season, but will position us for success 2, 3 years down the line. The secondary goal was to not tack on long term cap.

We achieved both those goals.

* We kept EVERY long term asset that we cared about

* We picked up THREE players that we had ranked highly, all at positions of need

* We have only $33M in committed contracts for next year

* We maintained and picked up more picks for the future

Am I disappointed to see Dedmon walk? Yeah, but again this season is purely a developmental season - it's irrelevant in the big picture.


As a rebuilding team, every youngster is an asset. I liked the draft more than HW but you guys didn't pick up an actual star potential guy or anything and minus Reddish had a safe off season. You lost a lot of vet influence on a very young team and have huge holes as a late round rookie is your backup center and Turner is the closest thing to a backup point guard on your roster.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#8 » by azuresou1 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:27 am

Mamba4Goat wrote:While saying it's the best one you've had in your lifetime may be extreme as a fan I totally get you being high on this off season and stoked.


Clearly you are not familiar with what it's like being a Hawks fan :lol:
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#9 » by CP War Hawks » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:14 am

Losing Dedmon is somewhat of a black mark, but they really like Len. They have two young defensive bigs that should compliment all the shooters and scorers that will surround them in lineups.

The draft was definitely need based as they already hit on all star talents in Trae, Collins, and lesser extent Huerter.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#10 » by Karate Diop » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:30 am

CP War Hawks wrote:Losing Dedmon is somewhat of a black mark, but they really like Len. They have two young defensive bigs that should compliment all the shooters and scorers that will surround them in lineups.

The draft was definitely need based as they already hit on all star talents in Trae, Collins, and lesser extent Huerter.


Whoa there... Huerter and the words "all star talent" should not be anywhere near each other...

If Huerter is an all-star in the making based off what he showed, that would indicate that Rodions Kurucs is as well :lol:
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#11 » by gom » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 am

Hunter and Reddish were great picks. I thought Hawks had a great offseason.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#12 » by CP War Hawks » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:14 am

Karate Diop wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:Losing Dedmon is somewhat of a black mark, but they really like Len. They have two young defensive bigs that should compliment all the shooters and scorers that will surround them in lineups.

The draft was definitely need based as they already hit on all star talents in Trae, Collins, and lesser extent Huerter.


Whoa there... Huerter and the words "all star talent" should not be anywhere near each other...

If Huerter is an all-star in the making based off what he showed, that would indicate that Rodions Kurucs is as well :lol:


I fancy Kurcus a poorman's AK-47 on ability so if he can put together a good 1st half, it's more than possible. Huerter is the total package for a 2 guard strength withstanding. Not saying he goes for 20 per game next season, but don't be surprised barring injury. Ask the Maryland/DC fans what they see in him.

How can you watch this video and not see the potential he possesses.

;t=95s
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#13 » by BadWolf » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:24 am

Parker still has star potential?
On paper offseason looks nice. Right moves, clear direction. But they took two risks in the draft, we'll have to wait a couple of years to see if these were the right moves. Still an A (-?) for them from me.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#14 » by dakomish23 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:20 pm

I give it a B+.

They got a guy I really like in Hunter. They took a swing with Reddish. They made a small bet on Jabari. They didn’t overestimate the positives from last season and try to win now with some questionable signings. They maintained huge flexibility down the line. They’re clearly still going to let the kids rock.

I would have found a way to get Clarke too (idk why but I just wanted him on ATL). I think they should have kept Dedmon on a larger two year deal.

Overall, a very solid off season.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#15 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:47 pm

I like their offseason. They got screwed on draft spot, but the trade up for a good fit in Hunter was solid and was possible becuase of the other good moves they made prior. Hunter probably isn't a star, but will be a solid starter and brings needed defense. Also liked the Reddish pick. High upside guy with all the talent in the world, and they can afford to try to develop him.

I would've liked to see a move for a defensive center, but I like not paying Dedmon. Len is okay for now. And Fernando is a good project. I think another real PG is in order as I don't like Turner handling backup point alone. But they're still in process.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#16 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:53 pm

Interesting reading everyone else's take so far. But, for those weighing in, any of you want to weigh in with a predicted win total as well?

Vegas has them at 33.5 last I looked for a reference point.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#17 » by BullyKing » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:20 pm

I'll go with 28 wins. I think their defense is going to be fairly atrocious.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#18 » by Stillwater » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Really like the fit with Hunter with young's meh defense but overall was probably an overpay depending on how much they get out of him offensively.
I get the gamble with reddish at 10 , but don't think it will pan out for them unless he really flips the coin. I mean NAW is better.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#19 » by pacers33granger » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:24 pm

I get letting Dedmon walk given the contract he got and where they're at in their rebuild. I personally don't like a single one of the "veteran" guys they brought in though, don't see how they fit given the emphasis on shooting, and am skeptical that they will be good presences overall.

Crabbe is the one I'm ok with (and it was all about the assets attached anyways) as he does shoot, though his reaction to the trade wasn't that encouraging.
Turner is a nice guy, but an odd fit everywhere and I don't see him doing well in Atlanta at all.
Parsons won't play, but isn't the type of guy I'd want around youngsters.
Parker is one of the last guys I'd want around youngsters and I think he ends up taking touches away from guys who will be around longterm. I also see no reason to have given him that PO.

I think these guys are generally quite a far cry from the vets they had last year in Dedmon, Bazemore, and VC both on and off the court.

The draft was good in the sense that they got two highly rated prospects, but it could look bad if they bust. They were in a tough spot where their picks landed though.
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Re: Atlanta Off Season Review: 

Post#20 » by giberish » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:54 pm

My first rough pass had them at 31. I might revise them down though.

I assumed they had a backup PG. While playing without one will make Young's +/- look good it could hurt developing the players who are on-court when Young sits (as especially if he misses some games).

They look to have chosen fit over talent in offseason moves, which isn't all bad but does make the roster look kind of meh. Don't look to really be trying until next summer.

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