Boston Off Season Review

Moderators: pacers33granger, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, Trader_Joe, loserX

How'd Boston do?

A
3
5%
A-
2
4%
B+
5
9%
B
6
11%
B-
6
11%
C+
10
18%
C
7
12%
C-
4
7%
D
10
18%
F
4
7%
 
Total votes: 57

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Boston Off Season Review 

Post#1 » by Mamba4Goat » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:01 am

Due to Hartford Whaler politely asking if we could push through and post tonight, there being no real reason not to, and Boston's newly retired mod (congrats again) SmartWentCrazy flipping me his review in an incredibly timely manner, we are going to go a day early for Boston's review. Hope everyone enjoys the reading! Let me know if you have any comments, questions, etc.!

Boston Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Kyrie Irving
Al Horford
Terry Rozier
Marcus Morris
Aron Baynes

Losses:
Guerschon Yabusel
Random mins

Draft:
14; Romeo Langford
22: Grant Williams
33: Carson Edwards
51: Tremont Waters

Trades:
(With Phoenix) Aron Baynes, Ty Jerome for Milwaukee 2020 1st
(With Charlotte) Scary Terry (S+T) and 2020 2nd swap for Kemba Irving (S+T) 2020 2nd swap
(With Philly) Matisse Thybulle for Ty Jerome+Carson Edwards


Free Agency:
Kemba Walker (4/$140,790,600)
Daniel Thies (2/$10,000,000)
Brad Wanamaker (1 year/min)
Vincent Poirier (2/$5,125,000)
Enes Kanter (2/$9,772,350)
TACKO FALL (Exhibit 10 deal)
Carson Edwards (rookie deal)
Grant Williams (rookie deal)
Romeo Langford (rookie deal)
Tremont Waters (two-way)

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
PG: Kemba Walker/Carson Edwards/Brad Wanamaker
SG: Marcus Smart/Jaylen Brown/Romeo Langford
SF: Jayson Tatum/Gordon Hayward
PF: Grant Willaims/Daniel Thies/Semi Ojeleye
C: Enes Kanter/Robert Williams/Vincent Poirier


Mamba4Goat's Boston Review

Key Losses:
Well, where to start? They lost so many of their guys that played lots of minutes. Losing Kyrie may hurt their "in a perfect world" ceiling, but I think Kemba is a better fit so I'm not sweating that one. Kyrie was a locker room nightmare and as talented as he is, he isn't the most ideal fit for the team. I honestly preferred the Kyrie-less playoff Celtics over the Kyrie-led Celtics but that sample size may be a cop out.
Losing Horford is massive for them. I'm high on Williams^2 but their's a huge void on their lineup for a defensive anchor big man/glue guy who excels at literally everything and can do no wrong (I'm banning you if you disagree with me on this
Spoiler:
but not actually
) It hurts even more that Horford went to one of the other best teams in the East. Between the spacing Horford gave, the reliability and steady hand he gave, and the underrated everything else that didn't show up on the box score.
I imagine that there's a certain Dallas fan mod that is going to have some words for me on this, but I think Rozier if given the full reigns and starting role that he would do well. I think that if they wouldn't have got Kemba and resigned Rozier, even on this deal, that they would be in a decent position still. However, getting a star point guard makes him easier to lose.
Morris may hurt a little bit, but I think Grant Williams will give Boston most of his best qualities minus the scoring. That being said, as we'll see below I'm irrationally high on Grant.
Baynes also hurts a lot as they now have to rely heavily on Robert Williams for center defense and I'm not sure if he's quite ready yet.

Losses:
Yabs was the only one that came to my mind but it's not really a loss. I honestly don't have much for this. Sorry, guys! I will quickly give a shout out to the ghost of Shane Larkin and say that I wish he was still on the roster and I am still hoping he comes back to the league at some point.

Draft:
I'm not really sure what to think of Langford, I wish they would've taken NAW here but I'm a lowly dreamer. I like the pick regardless and this seems like a BPA pick and I can't fault them for that as they had all the picks that they could hope for. Gotta take some swings, right? He'll be a nice sixth man kinda taking Rozier's role a bit.
I love the Grant Williams pick. I think he's going to surprise people this season and be the perfect energy guy to kinda help mitigate losing Morris and Horford. He'll be able to space the floor a bit and offer some scoring while giving them hustle which this team kinda lacked at times last season. Just having at least one guy like that can be infectious and they already have Smart having another guy like that (I believe our own Smitty called Williams a PF version of Smart) can hopefully put more of a pep in these guys's step.
Edwards is also a good snag for them. He should be a good fit for the offense in an IT-lite role and I think he should be having an immediate impact as potentially their first PG off the bench (aside from Smart if he still counts or doesn't start at SG).
Lastly, I think Waters has 3rd guard ability and should stay with the team as more than a 2-way deal. I wouldn't be upset if Wanamaker is the odd man out and their PG rotation is Kemba/Edwards/Waters and Waters is the Larkin to Edward's Rozier.

Trades:
I know that losing Baynes as a center hurts a lot and they don't really have anyone replacing what he brings but they got the Milwaukee 1st out of this and I consider that a huge win.
I love Thybulle and I think letting Philly get him could hurt a lot, but since they got Edwards and the later pick that they gave up with Baynes to get the Milwaukee 1st I don't hate it too much.

Free Agency:
I'll address the elephant in the room right away, I will be starting a petition if Tacko doesn't make the team. I am glad that they got to snag him up and he had a decent SL and I think he ends up getting burn later on in the season (up to 10mpg) and helps Boston on the defensive end a lot.
Kemba was a home run. Remember when Boston wasn't really seen as a FA destination and everyone was going crazy when they signed Hayward? Getting a star PG in FA after their star PG left is huge. He brings back a lot of what Kyrie brought without the headache of Kyrie being Kyrie and less injury-proneness. I genuinely think he'll make this teams floor higher and will do better than if Kyrie would've stayed (although, again Kyrie-led team had a "in a perfect world" higher ceiling).
As I alluded to earlier, I think their rookie PG's could start eating into Wanamaker's minutes right away (and I am hoping and praying that Larkin comes back) but I am glad that they got him back regardless.
Kanter's signing was a product of trying to grab the best guy on the market that they could afford and while I do like it, I kinda wish they would've tried poaching Noel away from OKC when they gutting their roster but if that wasn't achievable then Kanter works. He gives them a starting level talent and a veteran who at least knows the game while Williams grows and develops.
I am going to be honest, I don't know anything about Poirier
I also love getting Thies back. He gives them another reliable floor spacing big that kinda does a little bit of a lot of things okayly.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
Having a reliable and proven backup point guard (unless we're giving Smart that title) would've been nice, but I'm not nit-picking too much on that. They have a lot of centers but none that really jump out at you while having a glut of wings. I''m still pretty pro-Brown for Sabonis though.

Needs:
As stated above, reliable backup point guard and NBA level centers. I do like their roster and think a lot of guys play into these roles and I think they may need one mid-season small adjustment but they'll be okay.

Additional Thoughts:
There is sooooooooooooo much addition by subtraction here that it is crazy. They lost a ton of talent but losing Morris, Rozier, and Kyrie will ultimately make them a lot better as a team and their chemistry will skyrocket. It only takes one bad apple to ruin things, but as long as Hayward can play into the minutes he's force fed or he isn't force fed undeserved minute then this team will improve dramatically even with the loss of talent. I can honestly say that I am excited for them. I also think either Edwards or Williams will be on the rookie 2nd team.

Projected Win/Loss: 55-27
I am of the "Hayward will return to all-star level" school of thought. I think this team meshes a lot better and despite their 2nd biggest FA signing and 2 of their rookie's being scorers, giving Tatum/Brown more opportunity and a bigger role on offense will help them a lot.

Off-Season Grade: [u] B

Losing Horford hurts a lot but I love the rest of their off season aside from Kanter being their starting center.


HartfordWhalers wrote: HW's Boston Offseason Review

[u]Key Losses:
Kyrie Irving
Al Horford

Irving is a talented player. Losing him for nothing hurts. hat said, I think enough has been said on how evident it was that it was time to move on. And swapping Kemba for Kyrie wasn't going to be much of a step back especially when chemistry gets involved.

But Horford is a huge loss, and a loss to a team that is now squarely above the Celtics in the East pecking order.

RPM had the following takes on the Celtics losses:
18 Al Horford, C 1.77 2.66 4.43
20 Kyrie Irving, PG 3.77 0.46 4.23

{Apparently needed disclaimer: In no way am I saying RPM is flawless or should be taken word for word on every player. However, pretending like it isn't informative would be at least as foolish}

We can spin the loss of Horford as a rebuilding move and he is older and should be declining, but he loss of Horford is a huge loss for a team hat is still trying to win now as well as in the future.
So much of what has defined the past Boston teams has been a defense that is consistently top 5 in the league, and shuts down both opposing bigs as well as having league leading 3 point defense. Next year without Horford will be a fascinating test if it is system or player driven result, but I would expect some fall back.

Before Horford walked I saw a scenario where the Kemba/Kyrie swap worked out positively, and Boston got in on a Capela trade, and the team could have such a strong defensive identity and enough clutch scoring that I wouldn't rule out sneaking into a Finals. Now, I think the ceiling is a second round exit and
Losses:
Terry Rozier
Marcus Morris
Aron Baynes
Guerschon Yabusel
Random mins

I have Morris and Rozier as just losses. Rozier suffers from not being good. Morris suffers from being fully replaceable. Again, pulling off rpm:
Morris was the 50th best pf (0.31 -1.17 -0.86)
Rozier was the 42nd best pg (-0.91 -0.04 -0.95)

At some point you do need to play someone, and if the guy playing backup minutes is now the 74h best pf, then you will have a loss. And depth has value. But neither of these guys have elite skills or irreplaceable impacts.

Baynes looks more of a key loss, but he is still a backup center in a league with an abundance of them.

Draft:
14; Romeo Langford
22: Grant Williams
33: Carson Edwards
51: Tremont Waters

Wow, that Sacramento pick turned out anti-climatic. That said, I really like the pick of Romeo and he could be the perfect long term pairing with Tatum if between them they improve from long range.
Romeo has great size, intriguing fundamentals and just needs a shot. He is young and has a lot of upside for a pick at 14.

Grant Williams looks like he perfect replacement to Marcus Morris; an All American with great peripheral stats (rebounds steals assists blocks) and a rapidly improving shot from the line.
It is easy to joke that ROmeo and Williams are all more sf's, but they do look like they can slot better as a sg (that cannot shoot) and a pf (with a bit of an undersize).
These are fine positional fits in isolation, but they beg for:
A pg with good 3 point shooting
A sf with good 3 point shooting
A center with good size and defensively fundamentals
Which means they aren't as great fits with the current roster as would be liked. But you don't draft for fit *this* year. I like both picks a lot.

Carson is the Rozier replacement. Boston basically filled in their holes assuming Horford was returning. If they had known he really was gone at this point, I think they might have taken a developmental big here to compete with Williams, but then they found one in Tacko so I find the draft well performed given what they had.

Trades:
(With Philly) #20 (Matisse Thybulle) for #24 (Ty Jerome) + #33 (Carson Edwards)
(With Phoenix) Aron Baynes, #24 (Ty Jerome) for Milwaukee 2020 1st
(With Charlotte) Scary Terry (S+T) and 2020 2nd (if 54-60, else nothing) for Kemba Irving (S+T) 2020 2nd (worst of NYK/BKN)

So, Boston knew Philly wanted Thybulle and leveraged them for a very high 2nd, while still getting a guy they wanted at 22. Well done, although more the type of return you would associate with that trade prior to the draft then a hostage situation (like Philly did to Orlando with Payton).
The Baynes and #24 for Milwaukee pick is a fair trade. Boston probably moves back but they get to move a first back a year. and cleared salary they thought they might need to.
And then Boston got a Nets second, which is better than the protected pick they sent out for a free agent they absolutely should not match.
Small wins all the way around, or a small loss on the Phoenix deal but one they needed to make s as not to have 4-5 rookies.

Free Agency:
Kemba was the perfect Kyrie replacement. Love the move. Sure, it isn't a rebuild move, but why would they? And if they need to, I'm not worried about it being bad money next year when they could flip Kemba to the lakers for a 1st.

On the other hand, I don't know how best to describe going from Horford to Kanter. Kanter is talented. He gets unfairly maligned. And that is a good price for him. But Boston's defense took an enormous hit, and free agency didn't fix that at all. Still it seems unfair to penalize the team for that in free agency... although I would have loved a Noel type deal especially if short on years.

Current Depth Chart:
Is Center more scary than power forward, despite listing a rookie taken after 20?

Needs:
So, lots of question marks.
Interior defense.
Outside shooting.
Outside shooting.
NBA readiness of the rookies.
Outside shooting.
Interior defense.

Additional Thoughts:
Horford leaving really screwed up what otherwise would have been a perfect handling of what they had. Not the best offseason in terms of adding superstars or unexpected blockbusters. But just solid plus across the board. Could hey have offered Horford a 4 year max guaranteed and stayed more competitive in the short run? Maybe. But then maybe Boston pulls off the not so surprising Steven Adams trade and actually is better off in the long run having let Horford walk.
We all agree there should be a Steven Adams trade right? I vote yes. Boston is going to stay near 50 wins and try and look good for the next Kemba/Kyrie/etc. If they can do that better they should.

Projected Win/Loss: 47 wins.
Same system, some new faces. Should be a team that plays tough every night and has an All star (Kemba). so 47-49 was where I had them and I went the bottom range based off the outside shooting. But watch them do a small trade and win 51.

Off-Season Grade: B+
Went back and forth on A- or B+. Settled on the B+ but I feel like that undersold that I really liked the moves they did make.


SmartWentCrazy wrote:SmartWentCrazy Review


Key Losses:
Kyrie is more talented than Kemba, but Kemba should largely replace his overall impact. Losing Morris hurts, but not significantly moving forward. Losing Rozier was addition by subtraction.

Losing Horford is a killer though. He’s so good and his defense, spacing and playmaking will be sorely missed.

Losses:
Yabusele shouldve never had his option picked up to begin with. I demerit the Celtics for having to stretch his contract meaninglessly.

Draft:
Langford is an upside play— I’m not the biggest fan of his, but he was a former too recruit and I’m intrigued by his potential. Grant Williams is just a very solid role player— I can see him being an RPM darling one day. He’ll never be a star, but he should have an 8-10 year career. Edwards can shoot the hell out of the ball and should have a long career as well. He’s very stout and I was surprised by his defensive effort in summer league. Waters is JAG, IMO. I’ll include Tacko here too— his pure size is interesting but his best case scenario is to be a bit player.

The team did a great job sniffing out Philly’s plan and extorting them as well. Overall, it was a pretty good draft IMO.

Trades:
The Philly trade was very solid. The Phoenix trade was okay— it was nice to delay the first, but dumping Baynes will hurt them next year.

Free Agency:
Getting Kemba was an awesome recovery. Kanter— not so much. Personally would've preferred if they went a bit more defense focused for the position [Looney or Vonleh feel like they wouldve been better fits]. Nothing else was particularly noteworthy.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
Theyre very solid with respect to their wings and guards, but they probably have the worst big man situation out of any team hoping to make a run in the playoffs. It will be their downfall this season.

Needs:
They need bigs in the worst way

Additional Thoughts:
After a year of falling flat on their face and being an entirely miserable bunch of players, the team should be significantly more enjoyable this season. They wont compete for a title, but they should be infinitely more fun to watch.

Projected Win/Loss: __51-31__
The team is built to overachieve in the regular season. I could easily see them winning enough to finish in the top 2 for the conference. But they're ceiling is the second round.

Off-Season Grade: D+

Kemba largely offsets the Kyrie loss. Not trading for AD was the right move. They did well in the draft. But losing Horford was a real killer and their offseason grade should reflect as such.


pacers33granger wrote: Pacers33granger's Boston Offseason Review

Key Losses:
I may be the minority here, but I only have Kyrie, Horford, and Baynes as key losses. Some other guys provided a lot of box score production, but I'm not sold it was that positive. And personally the only one I'd be concerned about here is Horford, which is really a monumental loss for a team that was already short on bigs. I have Kemba as an upgrade to Kyrie and Baynes as replacement level.

Losses:
Yabs was sunk cost the second he was drafted and was just a waste overall. The roster spot is worth more imo. Rozier/Morris put up numbers, but I have them as net negatives overall. Boston will be better for not having the egos in the locker room and on the court.

Draft:
Langford was good value where he was drafted, though I think Boston could have really used Goga (I say this not as a fan of Indy but as someone who wonders why Ainge refuses to draft any semblance of a big who may be ready to contribute). Williams looks like he could be a contributor and Edwards was really good value.

Trades:
Hard to hate anything here. Ainge got a pick for sending Rozier on an abysmal contract to Charlotte for no reason, kicked the can down the road for Baynes, and picked up Edwards basically for free just because they knew Philly's plans.

Free Agency:
Walker was a coup. Ainge ended up picking up the pieces of Kyrie and came out ahead. Losing Horford still hurts them the most, but nothing he could do about that. After Walker, I'm not a fan of the signings. Theis should be a minimum guy, Poirier is an unknown, and Wanamaker is whatever. Kanter is the one I have the most issue with though. Very talented, but he offers nothing towards what Boston needed from their bigs and again compounds issues with not enough shots to go around. Yeah he played an admirable role in Portland's playoff run, but the guy isn't that good overall.

Final thoughts
Ainge did a great job of pivoting, though I wonder how much was his actual doing versus Kemba picking Boston. The rest I'm not enamored with. Nonetheless I'd still give their offseason a B+ as they started it knowing they were losing their all star PG and learning quickly they were losing their all star C, but came out of it well and likely will win more games. I will say I wish Ainge would pick a lane as the whole rebuild and contend has kind of failed, though there's no way he could say no to Kemba for free.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#2 » by BoogieTime » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:21 am

I don’t mind switching out Kyrie for Kemba but they lost a lot of rotation

Is that really the front court now as presented in the first part of the review?
Williams/Theis
Kanter/Williams
It looks non competitive
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#3 » by SmartWentCrazy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 am

Funny to see that I was by far and away the most negative reviewer. My thinking is as follows:

Theyre further away from seriously competing after this summer than they were last year. If C is average/aka no impact to your future, it feels unfair to give them anything above that IMO.

FWIW: I like what they did overall and it was definitely much better than expected given where they were when Kyrie and Horford left.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#4 » by Mamba4Goat » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:29 am

BoogieTime wrote:I don’t mind switching out Kyrie for Kemba but they lost a lot of rotation

Is that really the front court now as presented in the first part of the review?
Williams/Theis
Kanter/Williams
It looks non competitive


I'd imagine most of the rotation will look like:

PF: Tatum (20/30 minutes?)/Maybe Hayward (5 minutes?)/G. Williams and Theis competing for the rest of the minutes
C: Kanter (20/30 minutes?)/R. Williams/the French center fighting for minutes with Theis being the steady hand and playing minutes with the 2 youngsters can't handle it.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#5 » by pacers33granger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:30 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Funny to see that I was by far and away the most negative reviewer.


I had this same reaction after posting mine and seeing yours.

SmartWentCrazy wrote:My thinking is as follows:

Theyre further away from seriously competing after this summer than they were last year. If C is average/aka no impact to your future, it feels unfair to give them anything above that IMO.

FWIW: I like what they did overall and it was definitely much better than expected given where they were when Kyrie and Horford left.


I totally agree with all of this though. It's kind of odd saying that a team who signed one of the top free agents in their prime likely took a pretty big step back, but that big rotation was iffy before and got worse. It will be interesting to see how Brad works without Al and if the wings/guards can get the looks they're used to. I expect a lot of Kanter getting into foul trouble and incredulously wondering how he set a moving screen.

But Ainge did almost the absolute best he could depending on how you feel about his draft. Personally I would have preferred someone like Ed Davis to Kanter, but who knows if he would have been interested and it likely doesn't make too much of a difference.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#6 » by Mamba4Goat » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:31 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Funny to see that I was by far and away the most negative reviewer. My thinking is as follows:

Theyre further away from seriously competing after this summer than they were last year. If C is average/aka no impact to your future, it feels unfair to give them anything above that IMO.

FWIW: I like what they did overall and it was definitely much better than expected given where they were when Kyrie and Horford left.


The early poll had 2 D's and an F too. :lol: Maybe I just am too high on the C's. (between you and me, I'm a closet Celtics fan)
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#7 » by pacers33granger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:33 am

I will say too it seems Ainge and Brad are putting all their eggs in the Hayward basket. On one hand I completely get it as the payoff could be great and the cost was already paid. On another hand, it was arguably one of the catalysts of the disappointing season last year. If Brown/Tatum were upset about force feeding him (not saying they were at all, just if), then is doing it again and adding a starter who takes more shots than your last one (Al vs. Kanter) going to help that?
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#8 » by brackdan70 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:44 am

Going to miss Horford a ton but it could have been a lot worse. I liked the Draft and Kemba. Don’t mind Kanter. I’d give them a B. All things considered.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#9 » by loserX » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:55 am

Best move: pivoting from losing Kyrie to turning Rozier into a double S&T for Kemba. Kemba may not have Kyrie's raw talent, but he's still very, very good, and he's a fighter, and he's less...uh, Kyrie-ish. The fact that they got a double S&T and some 2nd round swap rights for a guy they would otherwise probably have renounced is some good gravy. (Seems like a number of teams got value for guys they didn't want this offseason; I'll be referencing this again.)

Worst move: as much as I like the Kemba signing, maxing him sure felt like a big win-now move. Going win-now but settling for such a risky frontline seems like a mixed message. I don't know if they'd counted on losing Al Horford but it feels like they could have been a little more aggressive after it happened.

One question: last year was a nightmare in the locker room. They did lose some of the bad influences (Kyrie and Morris) but they also lost some of the good ones (Horford and Baynes)...and some of the young holdovers (Tatum and Brown) should be taking a long look in the mirror this summer. Thus the question: can Brad Stevens get everyone pulling on the same rope?

Overall a mixed bag of an offseason: some good, some bad. But none of it will amount to much until they're sure the poison has been sucked out.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#10 » by Mamba4Goat » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:28 am

loserX wrote:Best move: pivoting from losing Kyrie to turning Rozier into a double S&T for Kemba. Kemba may not have Kyrie's raw talent, but he's still very, very good, and he's a fighter, and he's less...uh, Kyrie-ish. The fact that they got a double S&T and some 2nd round swap rights for a guy they would otherwise probably have renounced is some good gravy. (Seems like a number of teams got value for guys they didn't want this offseason; I'll be referencing this again.)

Signing Tacko Fall. Come on, man!

Worst move: as much as I like the Kemba signing, maxing him sure felt like a big win-now move. Going win-now but settling for such a risky frontline seems like a mixed message. I don't know if they'd counted on losing Al Horford but it feels like they could have been a little more aggressive after it happened.

I do generally agree with this one, but I think this part is being overstated with Tatum being able to play PF and most of the elite teams lately being weak at center too. I can see their depth being able to make it work.

One question: last year was a nightmare in the locker room. They did lose some of the bad influences (Kyrie and Morris) but they also lost some of the good ones (Horford and Baynes)...and some of the young holdovers (Tatum and Brown) should be taking a long look in the mirror this summer. Thus the question: can Brad Stevens get everyone pulling on the same rope?

Overall a mixed bag of an offseason: some good, some bad. But none of it will amount to much until they're sure the poison has been sucked out.


I think my biggest question and basically what makes or breaks this team is their star wing that's still working back from a major injury. Hayward can make this team a competitor or make them a low end playoff team. If he excels he may even be able to be flipped or allow someone like Brown to be flipped for an elite center.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#11 » by pelifan » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 am

I don't want to brag too much but I saw this coming last year, I think people get too ahead of themselves sometimes when teams come off a successful season (like I did with the Pelicans twice in the AD era). I still like where the Celtics are at but now they are just like a lot of young teams in the league like NO, Sac, Dallas, Indiana but the benefit they have is they have a good coach and they are in the East. The big man rotation for next season is a bit of a mess, but I think they did the best they could to salvage a bad situation.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#12 » by Kurt Heimlich » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:29 am

Turned lemons into lemonade with kyrie dumping them and Horford getting overpaid by philly by converting that into Kemba showed pretty solid roster mobility. And Kemba probably fits the roster better than kyrie in that he doesnt have the personality of a....kyrie irving. While still being a top end offensive talent in his prime.

But Ainges prized stash of picks has dwindled and I didnt like the Langford pick at 14. Relative small complaint that can still work out however. Overall I'll give them a B for still being in position to convert a bad situation into a really good player in kemba.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#13 » by Cappy_Smurf » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:50 am

D

Kemba was a nice pick up, and the only reason they don't get an F-, but I think people are jumping the gun on believing their problems are solved by losing Kyrie. Much of the problem with Kyrie was because he dominated offensive possessions so that everyone else felt like they needed to be selfish to get their share of the leftovers. Kemba is best as a scorer and should take up a ton of possessions himself. Getting rid of Rozier should help, but there's still a dynamic between Haywood/Brown/Tatum that's a big question mark for me.

I'm also not sold on Kanter at all. I think he's great for about 20 minutes off the bench, but any team relying on him as a starter is going to be in for a rude awakening. Wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for someone like Adams before the trade deadline.

P.S. I'm sure some people will dismiss this, but the addition of Kanter could add to potential chemistry problems as well. When Enes demanded a trade from Utah, a big part IMO was his teammates' frustration with him as the starter, when the team was worlds better with Gobert in the line-up. I don't believe Haywood will be too thrilled to be reunited with Kanter trying to anchor the defense. Kanter is all positive attitude now, but that will change in a hurry once they figure out he isn't the answer at starting C.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#14 » by giberish » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:45 am

I feel that many teams should have 2 separate grades on their offseason, one based solely on results and one based on decisions within team control.

Based solely on results this would be a C- or D offseason for the Celtics. They're still in win-now mode to some degree but have a very shaky post rotation.

Based on the parts within team control they look better, more like a B- can't really blame them for Horford leaving at that money and bringing in Kemba is nice. Not a big fan of their draft though.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#15 » by cl2117 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:01 pm

This is an incredibly hard off-season to really judge them on, but I give them a C.

I’m going to call Kyrie/Kemba a wash. Ainge needs to catch some flack for the Kyrie experiment. It totally blew up in his face and that extends beyond just the fact that he walked for nothing. That being said he rebounded so well with Kemba(h) that I’m not going to bloviate on it.

For me it all comes down to Horford. I’m on the fence here. It’s a MASSIVE loss. He fits Sevens’ system to a T, he was a lynchpin on both ends of the court. I was fine with the C’s letting him walk if the price got too high. I’d argue that what Philly is paying him can be considered too high, but the fact that they got him on a declining deal and it’s only a marginal overpay, it leaves me wishing Ainge had found a way to keep him.

In fairness though, Philly was better placed to offer him that kind of money since they’re ready to legitimately compete. Plus they could offer him the opportunity to play the 4, which just wasn’t an option for Boston. It’s hard to blame him too much for not keeping a guy when they couldn’t offer him what he wanted and if the only option was changing a marginal overpay to a significant one, then they made the right decision.

Those are the headlines. It’s hard to give them a positive grade when they only manage to stem 50% of the bleeding after losing their 2 best players. If C is average, no major damage done, then they’ve got to get a worse grade.

That being said I liked the trades. They were small wins. I liked the draft, Langford has nice upside, Edwards has some potential. I liked the Tacko signing and bringing back Theis. These are the types of small wins that Ainge made the last decade that’s continually kept them in striking distance of being a championship team. To keep making these kinds of moves while weathering a major storm is why I have faith in Ainge to right the ship.

Had they managed to keep Horford on the deal that Philly gave him I'd have given them an A-. Had they replaced him with a better option than Kanter (Capela/Adams type guys), they'd be in the B range.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#16 » by BullyKing » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:18 pm

cl2117 wrote:This is an incredibly hard off-season to really judge them on, but I give them a C.

I’m going to call Kyrie/Kemba a wash. Ainge needs to catch some flack for the Kyrie experiment. It totally blew up in his face and that extends beyond just the fact that he walked for nothing. That being said he rebounded so well with Kemba(h) that I’m not going to bloviate on it.

For me it all comes down to Horford. I’m on the fence here. It’s a MASSIVE loss. He fits Sevens’ system to a T, he was a lynchpin on both ends of the court. I was fine with the C’s letting him walk if the price got too high. I’d argue that what Philly is paying him can be considered too high, but the fact that they got him on a declining deal and it’s only a marginal overpay, it leaves me wishing Ainge had found a way to keep him.

In fairness though, Philly was better placed to offer him that kind of money since they’re ready to legitimately compete. Plus they could offer him the opportunity to play the 4, which just wasn’t an option for Boston. It’s hard to blame him too much for not keeping a guy when they couldn’t offer him what he wanted and if the only option was changing a marginal overpay to a significant one, then they made the right decision.

Those are the headlines. It’s hard to give them a positive grade when they only manage to stem 50% of the bleeding after losing their 2 best players. If C is average, no major damage done, then they’ve got to get a worse grade.

That being said I liked the trades. They were small wins. I liked the draft, Langford has nice upside, Edwards has some potential. I liked the Tacko signing and bringing back Theis. These are the types of small wins that Ainge made the last decade that’s continually kept them in striking distance of being a championship team. To keep making these kinds of moves while weathering a major storm is why I have faith in Ainge to right the ship.

Had they managed to keep Horford on the deal that Philly gave him I'd have given them an A-. Had they replaced him with a better option than Kanter (Capela/Adams type guys), they'd be in the B range.


Don't have much to add to this. I think it's a very fair and balanced take. I do question the overall direction a little in that you've got split time lines between Kemba/Hayward and Tatum/Brown but there wasn't much Ainge could do about that.

I am interested to see if Ainge changes his mentality a little going forward. We've heard all the jokes about him not putting prime assets on the table but I do understand his holding out for prime talents like AD. I do wonder though if this offseason makes him think that the NBA is just too unpredictable and changes too fast to pass up a current opportunity because you think a better one might come about in a year or two.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#17 » by Trader_Joe » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:51 pm

C+
Upper 40's for wins.

Kemba was a big time save, while Al a big time loss....made worse by going to a division rival who IMO didn't break the bank for his services. Not paying Rozier was big and they let a lot guys go that I did not think were impact pieces. I do in an odd way like the Kanter signing. I think he was mistreated in NY because he was producing and they wanted to tank. He seems like he might have matured some of the years and I don't think he is a selfish player like many think. They need to figure out how they are going to defend the interior, but at least they will be able to score inside.

But, I knock them mainly for losing Al and letting the dysfunction of the locker-room show. Ainge has sat on his assets and been patient, but should he have been? Should he be? What direction is this team in right now? Kind of an odd off-season IMO.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#18 » by Duffman100 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:55 pm

Frontcourt, frontcourt, frontcourt.

Tatum, Kanter, Williams, Theis is pretty damn thin.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#19 » by Cappy_Smurf » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:20 pm

Trader_Joe wrote: I do in an odd way like the Kanter signing. I think he was mistreated in NY because he was producing and they wanted to tank. He seems like he might have matured some of the years and I don't think he is a selfish player like many think.


Even if you believe all that, you have to ask yourself why nobody is trying very hard to hang on to him. Kanter is a hard player for a lot of people to evaluate, because he puts in a lot of effort, and it’s not easy to see his real shortcomings. We all know he’s a beast on offense and rebounding, and he’s actually a pretty good man to man defender.

The problem is that he can’t read offenses at all and gets easily confused when offenses target him in P&R or when he just needs to switch who he’s guarding. This issue is especially significant from the center position, and it’s the reason he will never be a starting center on a good team.

Even in Utah, the Jazz experimented with playing him next to Gobert/Favors, and still couldn’t cover for his deficiencies enough.

I understand what people see in Kanter that makes them believe, but it’s been the same story wherever he goes, and I expect Boston to be just another stop on his journey to play for all 30 teams.
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Re: Boston Off Season Review 

Post#20 » by Woody Allen » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:24 pm

Trader_Joe wrote: Al a big time loss....made worse by going to a division rival who IMO didn't break the bank for his services.


$109 million over 4 years isn't breaking the bank? Al Horford is 33 years old complementary player.

That said, I think Boston should have paid him that. But they were crippled by past idiotic decisions like the Marcus Smart contract (among others)

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