Boston Off Season Review

[Woody Allen]

Just a little while ago, this Boston team had the most insane collection of draft assets from the Nets and PHI trades, young players with star potential and quality veteran stars in Kyrie Irving, Horford etc. the most promising young coach in the league and they even had playoff-experience despite having many young guys. They were in prime position to turn that treasure trove into a superstar and become the team to beat in the East.

That didn't happen. They lost half their team, the picks were bad or gone, Jayson isn't quite the star he looked like as a rookie, Jaylen is up for an extension, Brad Stevens isn't quite as good as we though and Kyrie and Horford became Kemba and Kanter.

When you look at the upside and potential from a year ago to what you see today, how is this not an F?

Because we're grading this off season. Pretty much all of the mistakes that led to Boston's demise were made in previous offseasons/seasons.

[DanishLakerFan]

Just a little while ago, this Boston team had the most insane collection of draft assets from the Nets and PHI trades, young players with star potential and quality veteran stars in Kyrie Irving, Horford etc. the most promising young coach in the league and they even had playoff-experience despite having many young guys. They were in prime position to turn that treasure trove into a superstar and become the team to beat in the East.

That didn't happen. They lost half their team, the picks were bad or gone, Jayson isn't quite the star he looked like as a rookie, Jaylen is up for an extension, Brad Stevens isn't quite as good as we though and Kyrie and Horford became Kemba and Kanter.

When you look at the upside and potential from a year ago to what you see today, how is this not an F?

Because we're grading this off season. Pretty much all of the mistakes that led to Boston's demise were made in previous offseasons/seasons.

I get that and thats a fair argument. But still you go from Kyrie, Horford, Rozier, Morris and Baynes to Kemba, Thies and Kanter.

[Karmaloop]

Am I crazy for thinking that the grades are too extreme on both sides? With the writing on the wall that Kyrie Irving was leaving Boston as a FA, the fact that they managed to essentially flip Terry Rozier for Kemba Walker is a stroke of genius. Being the team to overpay for Terry Rozier probably doesn't fit long-term for Boston, and they wasted a golden opportunity to get a long-term asset of him. Turning Al Horford into Enes Kanter is a massive downgrade, no matter which way you slice it. I'd give them a solid C.

[Ballerhogger]

Will be one the worst rebounding teams on paper I don’t see elite shooting unless Hayward comes back to form . 43 wins at most.

gave them a C . Lots holes in front court . Lot teams have good front court
Nets
76ers
Pacers
New York Knicks .
Magic ...

[Mamba4Goat]

Am I crazy for thinking that the grades are too extreme on both sides? With the writing on the wall that Kyrie Irving was leaving Boston as a FA, the fact that they managed to essentially flip Terry Rozier for Kemba Walker is a stroke of genius. Being the team to overpay for Terry Rozier probably doesn't fit long-term for Boston, and they wasted a golden opportunity to get a long-term asset of him. Turning Al Horford into Enes Kanter is a massive downgrade, no matter which way you slice it. I'd give them a solid C.

The S&T didn't really help at all--it was initially them trying to get Horford back. (So it's basically just Kemba as a FA and not flipping Terry for him)

Most people are grading adversely due to Horford leaving (to Philly of all people), Boston failing miserably at filling that void, and the team not opting for a youth movement but also not really being good enough to legitimately compete. All of which I get.

On the flip side people are stoked about after the sky fell down they still came away with Kemba and their draft picks look exciting. Which I also get.

[Karmaloop]

The S&T didn't really help at all--it was initially them trying to get Horford back. (So it's basically just Kemba as a FA and not flipping Terry for him)

Most people are grading adversely due to Horford leaving (to Philly of all people), Boston failing miserably at filling that void, and the team not opting for a youth movement but also not really being good enough to legitimately compete. All of which I get.

On the flip side people are stoked about after the sky fell down they still came away with Kemba and their draft picks look exciting. Which I also get.

I mean, at best they held serve this offseason. Kyrie Irving was walking as a FA. That was about as clear as day. They maneuvered to create enough cap space to sign Kemba Walker outright, but they actually operated under better off if they acted as an over-the-cap situation because it would allow them to re-sign Al Horford as I'm sure you're aware. But on a side note, they opted to retain Terry Rozier as insurance in case Kyrie Irving ended up leaving, and by so doing they gave up the ability to create more long-term value out of Rozier. IF Boston had managed to re-sign Al Horford, we'd be talking about the C's in a much more positive light. We'd probably be talking about a more favorable outlook on the C's offseason. Kemba is worse than Kyrie Irving, but in terms of what the C's want to do he's a better fit especially in the locker room than Kyrie was.

[basketballwacko2]

I don’t mind switching out Kyrie for Kemba but they lost a lot of rotation

Is that really the front court now as presented in the first part of the review?
Williams/Theis
Kanter/Williams
It looks non competitive

I'd imagine most of the rotation will look like:

PF: Tatum (20/30 minutes?)/Maybe Hayward (5 minutes?)/G. Williams and Theis competing for the rest of the minutes
C: Kanter (20/30 minutes?)/R. Williams/the French center fighting for minutes with Theis being the steady hand and playing minutes with the 2 youngsters can't handle it.

I think the PF/C is gonna be their biggest weak point going into the season. Kanter can score but doesn't play much defense and Coach Stevens is gonna hate that.

I saw a proposed trade last week that had OKC sending Adams and Gallo to the Celtics for Hayward, Brown and a #1 pick either a Boston pick or the Bucks pick. It will depend on how well Hayward is recovered and if Stevens can let his guy go, Hayward played for him at Butler.

If Brown would not be in the deal I think I would take 2 #1's something like Hayward, Kanter and Ojeleye and a Boston pick say 2020 or 21, and the Bucks pick. Putting the Memphis pick in would be too much.

This line up would be pretty good.
Adams
Gallo
Tatum
Smart
Walker

[DanishLakerFan]

I don’t mind switching out Kyrie for Kemba but they lost a lot of rotation

Is that really the front court now as presented in the first part of the review?
Williams/Theis
Kanter/Williams
It looks non competitive

I'd imagine most of the rotation will look like:

PF: Tatum (20/30 minutes?)/Maybe Hayward (5 minutes?)/G. Williams and Theis competing for the rest of the minutes
C: Kanter (20/30 minutes?)/R. Williams/the French center fighting for minutes with Theis being the steady hand and playing minutes with the 2 youngsters can't handle it.

I think the PF/C is gonna be their biggest weak point going into the season. Kanter can score but doesn't play much defense and Coach Stevens is gonna hate that.

I saw a proposed trade last week that had OKC sending Adams and Gallo to the Celtics for Hayward, Brown and a #1 pick either a Boston pick or the Bucks pick. It will depend on how well Hayward is recovered and if Stevens can let his guy go, Hayward played for him at Butler.

If Brown would not be in the deal I think I would take 2 #1's something like Hayward, Kanter and Ojeleye and a Boston pick say 2020 or 21, and the Bucks pick. Putting the Memphis pick in would be too much.

This line up would be pretty good.
Adams
Gallo
Tatum
Smart
Walker

This isn't a bad idea at all. Adams and Kanter are pretty close and Adams and Gallo would allow the Celtics to be competitive during the "Kemba-era" and Adams is young enough to be able to work with Jayson Tatum for the long haul. I'd probably want to keep either Jaylen Brown or the Memphis pick, though.

But trading Hayward is going to be tough to swallow and i'm sure CP3 will have a hissy fit in OKC.

[cl2117]

Don't have much to add to this. I think it's a very fair and balanced take. I do question the overall direction a little in that you've got split time lines between Kemba/Hayward and Tatum/Brown but there wasn't much Ainge could do about that.

I am interested to see if Ainge changes his mentality a little going forward. We've heard all the jokes about him not putting prime assets on the table but I do understand his holding out for prime talents like AD. I do wonder though if this offseason makes him think that the NBA is just too unpredictable and changes too fast to pass up a current opportunity because you think a better one might come about in a year or two.

I actually like the overall direction given the circumstances. It’s usually better to be going full bore in one direction, but they’re just not well placed to do that. Too good to tank, not good enough to warrant pushing in all the chips for another star.

I’m not going to turn my nose up at Kemba just because it only makes us a playoff team and not a real contender. It keeps us in a good position to be 1-2 moves away to becoming one and stabilizes the franchise. If they had just rolled out Rozier/Brown/Tatum core I still think they’re a late lottery team rather than sitting pretty looking for a top 10 pick.

I don’t expect Ainge to change his mentality really, it’s just the way he is. He hoards assets and has his eyes for massive moves. I think Kemba falls in between. Reminds me of when he traded for IT even though it’d hurt their draft pick, but just on a bigger scale. You don’t turn down a good asset. I don’t even think Ainge even thinks he made a misstep by not making a move for Kawhi/PG/Butler given that they’re all on different teams now (and I think I’d agree with him apart from Kawhi).

I’d hope that he does though. I think 2021 is the lynchpin year where decisions need to be made because that Memphis pick will have conveyed, we’ll be off Hayward’s deal and Tatum will be up for an extension. That seems like a now or never type situation where if Ainge doesn’t push his chips in he just won’t have enough left to make a major move and he’ll be reliant on guys wanting to come to Boston rather than being able to make moves to bring them in.

[100proof]

There are a lot of options IMO.

In a void the team is much worse this year than last year, hard to argue against that, but with a little internal growth and more reliance on young legs this team will perform well in the regular season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics out performed last years record in the regular season.

I think that the key will be balancing out the lineups to maximize certain attributes that players bring.
Kanter, for example, can score the ball and can rebound. so I don't think that he should play with Tatum and Kemba much, as they are both the top scorers on the team. instead Kanter should log a lot of minutes with Hayward, who is craft and smart with the ball and is an excellent distributor and shooter, which will play very well off of Kanter.

IMO the best lineups will be.

Kemba or Kemba
Brown Smart
Tatum Brown
Williams Tatum
Porier Porier

Brown to defend beside Kemba and be the 3rd scorer. Williams to be that strong rebounding 5th option glue guy in the starting lineup. Porier to play a similar role to Baynes. Tatum and Kemba being scoring options 1a and 1b. the alternative is to load up on wing defense and a bigman in the middle to to cover tatum guarding PFs.


Bench will be

Edwards or Edwards
Smart Langford
Hayward Hayward
Theis Williams
Kanter Kanter

Shooting, playmaking, low post scoring, wing defense and rebounding.





I firmly believe that a trade will be made by deadline though

[loserX]

There are a lot of options IMO.

Welcome to the boards! Great first post.

[dakomish23]

D

Kemba was a nice pick up, and the only reason they don't get an F-, but I think people are jumping the gun on believing their problems are solved by losing Kyrie. Much of the problem with Kyrie was because he dominated offensive possessions so that everyone else felt like they needed to be selfish to get their share of the leftovers. Kemba is best as a scorer and should take up a ton of possessions himself. Getting rid of Rozier should help, but there's still a dynamic between Haywood/Brown/Tatum that's a big question mark for me.

I'm also not sold on Kanter at all. I think he's great for about 20 minutes off the bench, but any team relying on him as a starter is going to be in for a rude awakening. Wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for someone like Adams before the trade deadline.

P.S. I'm sure some people will dismiss this, but the addition of Kanter could add to potential chemistry problems as well. When Enes demanded a trade from Utah, a big part IMO was his teammates' frustration with him as the starter, when the team was worlds better with Gobert in the line-up. I don't believe Haywood will be too thrilled to be reunited with Kanter trying to anchor the defense. Kanter is all positive attitude now, but that will change in a hurry once they figure out he isn't the answer at starting C.

He was bitching in New York too.

[Prokorov]

There are a lot of options IMO.

In a void the team is much worse this year than last year, hard to argue against that, but with a little internal growth and more reliance on young legs this team will perform well in the regular season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics out performed last years record in the regular season.

I think that the key will be balancing out the lineups to maximize certain attributes that players bring.
Kanter, for example, can score the ball and can rebound. so I don't think that he should play with Tatum and Kemba much, as they are both the top scorers on the team. instead Kanter should log a lot of minutes with Hayward, who is craft and smart with the ball and is an excellent distributor and shooter, which will play very well off of Kanter.

IMO the best lineups will be.

Kemba or Kemba
Brown Smart
Tatum Brown
Williams Tatum
Porier Porier

Brown to defend beside Kemba and be the 3rd scorer. Williams to be that strong rebounding 5th option glue guy in the starting lineup. Porier to play a similar role to Baynes. Tatum and Kemba being scoring options 1a and 1b. the alternative is to load up on wing defense and a bigman in the middle to to cover tatum guarding PFs.


Bench will be

Edwards or Edwards
Smart Langford
Hayward Hayward
Theis Williams
Kanter Kanter

Shooting, playmaking, low post scoring, wing defense and rebounding.





I firmly believe that a trade will be made by deadline though

it would be really surprising for them to match last years record let alone win it. even if everything clicks... you just dont see reams with 0 depth win 50 games. 82 game season their will be injuries and top players who have dry spells. forget kyrie and all... both huge loses, but the team was complete gutted of its depth. relying on young players and rookies to supply depth. typically that doesnt work well

boston would be good to hit 40-42 wins.

[HartfordWhalers]

There are a lot of options IMO.

In a void the team is much worse this year than last year, hard to argue against that, but with a little internal growth and more reliance on young legs this team will perform well in the regular season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics out performed last years record in the regular season.

I think that the key will be balancing out the lineups to maximize certain attributes that players bring.
Kanter, for example, can score the ball and can rebound. so I don't think that he should play with Tatum and Kemba much, as they are both the top scorers on the team. instead Kanter should log a lot of minutes with Hayward, who is craft and smart with the ball and is an excellent distributor and shooter, which will play very well off of Kanter.

IMO the best lineups will be.

Kemba or Kemba
Brown Smart
Tatum Brown
Williams Tatum
Porier Porier

Brown to defend beside Kemba and be the 3rd scorer. Williams to be that strong rebounding 5th option glue guy in the starting lineup. Porier to play a similar role to Baynes. Tatum and Kemba being scoring options 1a and 1b. the alternative is to load up on wing defense and a bigman in the middle to to cover tatum guarding PFs.


Bench will be

Edwards or Edwards
Smart Langford
Hayward Hayward
Theis Williams
Kanter Kanter

Shooting, playmaking, low post scoring, wing defense and rebounding.





I firmly believe that a trade will be made by deadline though

it would be really surprising for them to match last years record let alone win it. even if everything clicks... you just dont see reams with 0 depth win 50 games. 82 game season their will be injuries and top players who have dry spells. forget kyrie and all... both huge loses, but the team was complete gutted of its depth. relying on young players and rookies to supply depth. typically that doesnt work well

boston would be good to hit 40-42 wins.

And yet the Vegas lines are all around 48-49. I mean this very respectfully, but I think you should try hard and step back a step from your perspective so that you can see at least how outlier your take on them is. Nothing wrong with outlier, but being able to acknowledge it and where you are coming from can be really beneficial.

[Prokorov]

There are a lot of options IMO.

In a void the team is much worse this year than last year, hard to argue against that, but with a little internal growth and more reliance on young legs this team will perform well in the regular season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics out performed last years record in the regular season.

I think that the key will be balancing out the lineups to maximize certain attributes that players bring.
Kanter, for example, can score the ball and can rebound. so I don't think that he should play with Tatum and Kemba much, as they are both the top scorers on the team. instead Kanter should log a lot of minutes with Hayward, who is craft and smart with the ball and is an excellent distributor and shooter, which will play very well off of Kanter.

IMO the best lineups will be.

Kemba or Kemba
Brown Smart
Tatum Brown
Williams Tatum
Porier Porier

Brown to defend beside Kemba and be the 3rd scorer. Williams to be that strong rebounding 5th option glue guy in the starting lineup. Porier to play a similar role to Baynes. Tatum and Kemba being scoring options 1a and 1b. the alternative is to load up on wing defense and a bigman in the middle to to cover tatum guarding PFs.


Bench will be

Edwards or Edwards
Smart Langford
Hayward Hayward
Theis Williams
Kanter Kanter

Shooting, playmaking, low post scoring, wing defense and rebounding.





I firmly believe that a trade will be made by deadline though

it would be really surprising for them to match last years record let alone win it. even if everything clicks... you just dont see reams with 0 depth win 50 games. 82 game season their will be injuries and top players who have dry spells. forget kyrie and all... both huge loses, but the team was complete gutted of its depth. relying on young players and rookies to supply depth. typically that doesnt work well

boston would be good to hit 40-42 wins.

And yet the Vegas lines are all around 48-49. I mean this very respectfully, but I think you should try hard and step back a step from your perspective so that you can see at least how outlier your take on them is. Nothing wrong with outlier, but being able to acknowledge it and where you are coming from can be really beneficial.

vegas line has nothing to do with predicted outcome and eveything to do with better emotion and getting money on both sides of the line.

[HartfordWhalers]

it would be really surprising for them to match last years record let alone win it. even if everything clicks... you just dont see reams with 0 depth win 50 games. 82 game season their will be injuries and top players who have dry spells. forget kyrie and all... both huge loses, but the team was complete gutted of its depth. relying on young players and rookies to supply depth. typically that doesnt work well

boston would be good to hit 40-42 wins.

And yet the Vegas lines are all around 48-49. I mean this very respectfully, but I think you should try hard and step back a step from your perspective so that you can see at least how outlier your take on them is. Nothing wrong with outlier, but being able to acknowledge it and where you are coming from can be really beneficial.

vegas line has nothing to do with predicted outcome and eveything to do with better emotion and getting money on both sides of the line.

In which case you would still be an outlier...

[JRoy]

Boston’s prospects for the future looked much better this time last year than they do now.

Short answer D+

[brackdan70]

As a Cs fan I am feeling pretty good about things as it could have been a lot worse. Addictions by subtractions in Kyrie, Rozier, Morris. Filled Kyrie void with Kemba. Kanter adds rebounding and offense for 24 minutes or so and Hayward hopefully is back to a shell of himself. Horford is a big loss, but at age 34 the Cs shouldn’t have paid him as much as he got. How do you grade that? IDK.
The draft was good, but the Cs really need one of those picks or Williams to take a big step, may or may not happen this year.