Brooklyn Off Season Review

Moderators: Trader_Joe, Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, loserX, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, HartfordWhalers

How'd Brooklyn do?

A
16
48%
A-
2
6%
B+
4
12%
B
3
9%
B-
1
3%
C+
2
6%
C
1
3%
C-
1
3%
D
1
3%
F
2
6%
 
Total votes: 33

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Mamba4Goat
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Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#1 » by Mamba4Goat » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:18 am

Better late than never! We have decided to move it to one a day and I was busy out salsa dancing! :D We're not going to let the suspense kill everyone though! As always enjoy the reading! Let us know if you have any questions/comments!

Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
D’Angelo Russell
DeMarre Carroll
Ed Davis

Losses:
RHJ
Shabazz Napier
Treveon Graham
Jared Dudley
Alan Williams

Draft:
31: Nicolas Claxton

Trades:
(With GSW) D’Angelo Russell S+T, Treveon Graham, Shabazz Napier for Kevin Durant (S+T), 2020 GSW 1st
(With Atlanta) Allen Crabbe, NAW, 2020 1st for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd
(With Washington/SA) Demarre Carroll S+T for Aaron White draft rights
(With LAC) 27 (Mfiondu Kabengele) for 2020 Philly 1st and 56 (Jaylen Hands)

Free Agency:
Kevin Durant 4 yr $164,255,700
Kyrie Irving 4 yr $136,490,600
DeAndre Jordan 4 yr $39,960,716
Wilson Chandler (1/Min)
David Nwaba (2/Min)
Garrett Temple 1 yr $4,767,000
Theo Pinson (1/Min)
Henry Ellenson (2-way)

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
PG: Kyrie Irving/Spencer Dinwiddie
SG: Joe Harris/Caris LeVert/Garrett Temple/Dzanan Musa
SF: Taurean Prince/David Nwaba (Ghost of KD)
PF: Rodions Kurocs/Wilson Chandler
C: DeAndre Jordan/Jarrett Allen/Nicolas Claxton


Trader_Joe wrote:TJ's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
While there are 3 key losses from last season, I do think most have been replaced rather adequately. Russell was the price to pay to get Irving and KD, and Irving is a better player than Russell at the moment. Even though I’ve never really appreciated Irving’s game, and while I think Russell is closer to Irving than most think (with room to grow), Irving’s efficiency will be the biggest difference between these two players. Irving has produced with near elite efficiency, while Russell has always been inefficient scoring the ball. I do think Russell is more team oriented and the better passing PG, but I’m eager to see what Atkinson can do with Irving and what Irving can do under Atkinson.

Ed Davis is a big loss. He was the heart and soul of the bench, and our best defender and rebounder. Despite being undersized height and weight-wise, he matched up well with a majority of centers. But, between him and Allen, the Nets were victimized down low by the likes of Embiid, Vucevic, Towns, Lopez, Kanter (now on a division and PO rival), etc. Jordan may not be the player he once was but he is Ed Davis’s age, has the height and weight Davis doesn’t and is a former DPOY. He looks pretty good physically on his vegan diet (Kyrie and W.Chandler are vegans too) and should be motivated to play with these guys.

Carroll was the gift that kept giving. He played well on the court, was a leader off the court, landed us Musa and Kurucs and as well 2 Euro stashes (Aaron White form the Wiz, Nemanja Dangubic from the Spurs). His replacement is viewed as Taurean Prince. Atkinson was there when they drafted him, and the Nets once had him assigned to the LI Nets by the Hawks. They targeted Prince and think he can be a young Carroll. Unless Prince steps up defensively, I can’t see him matching Carroll’s on court contribution and certainly not his off-court leadership.

Losses:
RHJ and Dudley are the only other losses of note. Though RHJ was the 3rd string C most the season and Dudley most expected to be bought out. Dudley was a surprise with his IQ and leadership, but I think Chandler can take that role. Claxton and Ellenson take over RHJ’s role.

Draft:
31: Nicolas Claxton
Nets supposedly had Claxton much higher on their draft board (they always say they do), but I can see why. Nearly 7 foot, nice handle, nice form, strong finisher and shot blocker. I think he will excite every time he hits the floor, which doesn’t project to be too much. Expect him to see most his time in L.I. and then as a 3rd string Center and PF.

Nets also drafted PG Jaylen Hands who could get the one remaining 2 way spot, but I think he might be off to Europe instead.


Trades:
(With Atlanta) Allen Crabbe, #17, 2020 1st (lotto protected 2020-22, else 2 seconds) for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd
This trade set the tone of the off-season. It was an overpay, but the Nets felt they had to make a move before someone else did. Atlanta was known to be selling cap space and Atkinson has a relationship with his former team (Lin trade last year as well). Nets also liked Prince and did target him. Ultimately it was a trade they had to do, to do what they wanted to do.

(With GSW) D’Angelo Russell S+T, Treveon Graham, Shabazz Napier for Kevin Durant (S+T), 2020 GSW 1st
(top 20 protected, else 2025 2nd)
A surprise move… or was it?
I found it interested that the Sunday afternoon of free agency, after Woj said KD was signing with the Nets, he also said Jordan was signing with them... and then it came out for 4/40 shortly after. (Stein reported their interest a week before) How could they come up with that cap? At first it was reported discounts and bonuses. But in reality, the salary came from the difference between Russell’s lower cap hold and high starting max to match with. In the end KD and Irving got full maxes (I think Kyrie took 500k less as opposed to the several million each reported originally.) Makes me think this was planned out ahead of time. Russell had been very quiet leading up.

I doubt the Warriors are a top 10 team this season, so the pick is likely a way future 2nd, but it’s still kind of funny to get a 1st for Durant. LAC, LAL, Houston paid 10 1st round picks and 5 picks swaps along with some good young players to land their 2nd stars.

(With Washington/SA) Demarre Carroll S+T for Aaron White draft rights and Nemanja Dangubic from the Spurs
Sure, more minor trade filler for nothing.

(With LAC) #27 for ’20 Philly 1st + #56
A cap clearing move as every penny counted this summer.

Free Agency:
Kevin Durant 4 yr $164,255,700
3+ PO

Year 1 is a loss, but the hope is KD comes back next season and has a Dominique Wilkins type recovery. Is that too optimistic? Well, found this interesting….

Kobe: Left achilles
Rudy Gay: left achilles
Cousins: Left achilles
Wes Matthews: Left achilles
Elton Brand: Left achilles
Memet Okur: Left achilles
Chauncey Billups: Left achilles
Brandon Jennings: Left achilles
Anderson Varajao: Left achilles
Leonard: Left achilles
All really struggled to come back and weren’t 100%
Wilkins: right achilles, better than pre injury
Durant: right achilles TBD

All the players who had their careers ended were right handed and tore their left achilles. Durant is right handed and tore his right achilles.

But this phenomena isn’t limited to basketball.

Virtually every professional athlete that has come back at 100% from a ruptured achilles has had 1 thing in common: Howie Kendrick, DeMaryius Thomas, Zach Britton, Jason Peters, Derrick Johnson(1st time, 2nd when he ruined his career it was the left), Michael Crabtree, Brent Grimes, Dan Marino, Terrell Suggs, Lawrence Taylor, Vince Wilfork.
Every single one of them tore their RIGHT achilles tendon. I’m not sure if there’s been one single case of someone successfully coming back 100% after tearing their left, whereas there has been significant evidence that tearing the non-dominant Achilles has had negligible impact on performance/career trajectory outside of time missed during rehabilitation. As a matter of fact, almost every single elite athlete that has torn their right achilles while they were still in or near their prime has come back even stronger the following season.


Credit to rbynyc11 on Netsdaily.
There was a lot more he had to say, but I don't want to completely steal his post.

Now I’m not a Dr. and I don’t know his background, but it looks like he did some research or at least he is making me a feel a little bit better.

Also from Net Income (connected mod) at ND:
“Told as well that the rupture was high up on the calf where blood flow is the best, enhancing recovery. Best case scenario I was told.”

Yeah it sucks he ruptured his Achilles, but the Nets had no control over that and were willing to take the risk. KD’s surgeon is the Nets Orthopedist and has already worked on his foot, LeVert, Lopez and several others. Gotta like that dynamic.

Kyrie Irving 4 yr $136,490,600
3+PO
Easily one of the most polarizing and probably disliked players in the league. And for good reason. He thinks he’s smarter than he is and probably thinks he is better than he is. He’s done little without LBJ on his team and hasn’t exactly been a joy to be around most of his career. But… this is where he wants to be, and it seems he’s had his mind made up for some time. Many players said they knew this for months and even Ainge said that around March he got the impression Kyrie wanted to go back “home” and to the Nets, not the Knicks. Atkinson also has a good track record with PGs and he should fit right in. Was it worth letting Russell go? Yes, because no KD without Kyrie.

DeAndre Jordan 4 yr $39,960,716
Bad contract all around, but it was the cost of doing business. Seems Marks was doing his best to bring guys together that wanted to play together. Jordan, Irving and KD played together on the 2016 Olympic team and you have to thinks things started brewing a while ago. I already touched on what Jordan “can” bring under key losses.

Others:
Wilson Chandler (1/Min)
David Nwaba (2/Min) (2nd year TO)
Garrett Temple 1 yr $4,767,000 (Room Exception, 2nd year TO)
Theo Pinson (2/Min)
Henry Ellenson – 2 way
Deng Adel - Camp invite

Only thing I want to note, was that Kyrie was consulted and supposedly really wanted to play with Temple. Kyrie also tried to recruit Thad Young and Iman Shumpert apparently. Another thing to note, they did the same thing with D.Will (made moves to appease him), please Kyrie, don’t be D.Will 2.0. Seems there are some eerie coincidences here.

My Depth Chart:
PG: Kyrie Irving (32) / Spencer Dinwiddie (16) / Theo Pinson (DNP)
SG: Caris LeVert (28) / David Nwaba (10) / Dinwiddie (10) / Dzanan Musa (DNP)
SF: Joe Harris (28) / Garrett Temple (16) / Nwaba (4) / Kevin Durant (inj)
PF: Rodions Kurocs (24) / Taurean Prince (24) / Wilson Chandler (DNP)
C: Jarrett Allen (24) / DeAndre Jordan (24) / Claxton (DNP)
Henry Ellenson – 2W
Deng Adel - Camp invite

Just adding how I see it, and doing a minute distribution.

I think Allen continues to start. Maybe KA alternates starts based upon the match-up, but Allen looked like a man possessed in Summer League (or at least determined to keep his starting job, which he says he wants to keep while Jordan has supposedly told KA he will do whatever helps the team) and Allen looked bigger than last year. I think PF is the real question. Nets had a great record when Kurucs started (28-18). But, he played out on control at times and does not have a reliable shot. Prince adds more shooting, which is key for the Nets offense. I think that is KD’s spot to fill in a year.

Needs:
KD back at 80% or greater.

Without him, this team just doesn’t look all that special to me. A solid PO team, but not a true threat without their superstar, if he still is one.

But considering that probably isn’t happening for 1 more year, this team needs continued growth from the youth. We pretty much know what they have with Irving, Harris, and Dinwiddie. LeVert showed flashes and was great in the POs, but we need to see him do that for a full season (meaning he stays healthy), before he’s anointed as the 3rd star. Nets also have to make a decision about his extension (and Prince). One of Kurucs or Prince has to show they can effectively man PF all season, while Allen needs to continue to gain strength and aggression. He can make the highlight blocks, but we need him to be an impact defender throughout.

Trades will be tough this year.
They are not moving KD or Kyrie
Doubt they move Jordan considering the circumstances or his contract.
Dinwiddie was the primary recruiter of Kyrie to Brooklyn from his Harvard class with Kyrie and has been pretty open about it. Doubt they do him like that.
After that though, they are hard pressed to accumulate significant salary in trade outside of Harris and Temple which is all of $12m.

Additional Thoughts:
I wonder if the Nets will have the same competitive fire they had last season. Will this be treated as a bridge year while KD is out? They are not in the same league as the Bucks or Sixers, and I don’t necessarily think they will be able to overtake teams like Boston, Indy or Toronto as easily as some Net fans do. There is a lot of turnover as a whole and injury risk with some of these guys. I could easily see this team being a disappointment in the minds of many. But this regime has always preached long-term and bigger picture, so I’m not going to fear the future if things don’t quite go as planned this year, especially because I don’t think things will truly go south.

Projected Win/Loss: 46-36
A small improvement over last year (42 to 46), but there was something special about last year’s team. The sum was greater than the whole of the parts in large part from their camaraderie. (Though I am hearing Dinwiddie and Russell never really got along, Dinwiddie did openly recruit Kyrie to take D.Lo’s spot and they never played well on the court together. Also heard Russell un-followed Dinwiddie on Insta or some social media thing which is supposed to mean something. I also think teams like Orlando, Miami, Detroit will battle for the PO, while the tanking teams may not tank as hard as previous years after the NYK’s blatantly and admittedly tanked and still did not get one of the top 2 prospects. Other than Cleveland (unless Love is healthy and kept) and Charlotte, the focus is going to be on improvement and building their teams into a winner.

Off Season Grade: A-
They overpaid to dump Crabbe, handed out a bad contract to Jordan, overpaid Temple, lost Russell, traded out of the 1st round and may not be a 50 win team. I don’t care. They landed 2 of the top FAs on the market that pretty much any team with cap space would have loved to sign… injured or not (sorry Knicks, not believing you wouldn’t have paid KD). They took advantage of the CBA for extra cap space, they got a 1st rounder for Russell but more importantly, they became relevant. Finally. They even have “haters” now. That alone is a grade bump.


Mamba4Goat wrote:Brooklyn review
Mamba4Goat's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Feel free to come at me with your p'itch forks but swapping Russell for Kyrie is a massive massive locker room and chemistry loss. Sure, their ceiling as a team is higher and it was a necessary evil of getting KD but by golly that swap will look worse and worse as the season goes on. Hopefully Dinwiddie (who's apparently friends with Kyrie or something) can work his magic and fix things.
Carroll is another huge loss and I would've offered the DJ money to him, but again, necessary evil and I can't fault him for wanting to join the Spurs either.
Ed Davis will be missed and among all of my other losses, I would have much preferred him having the money they gave Temple, but with DJ's signing that wouldn't have made much sense.

Losses:
While I will miss RHJ, he just wasn't a good fit. Hopefully he turns out well in Toronto.
Dudley was a great locker room guy, one that could be needed in a place that has some of the players that they signed too, so he'll be missed as well.

Draft:
31: Nicolas Claxton
I'm going to be honest, I looked up brief research on Claxton for this because I know nothing about him. Looking at it though, I like the pick. I have a soft spot for guys who are only defenders and not really shooters. He fills the Brooklyn Nets void that RHJ left in my heart.

Trades:
The Hawks trade may have been an overpay, but at the end of the day they got a starting caliber forward and the cap space to make this off season happen. At the end of the day it's worth it.

I was going to say bad things about giving up Napier/Graham in the D'Lo trade but then I realized that it was due to salary manipulating to get DJ's contract so I can't say much. That being said, I would've rather sent D'Lo to a less threatening team like Minnesota, not signed DJ, and kept the guards but that's neither here nor there. I do get that they're doing right by D'Lo too but I still don't care for it.

Getting the 2020 Philly 1st for a late 1st is a nice plus too as it gives them a 1st in the draft they lost their pick in.

Free Agency:
With KD, it's a no brainer. Durant is debatably the best player in the game and even though you can't play him the 1st year and it's a massive risk every team in the NBA would kill to have him.
Kyrie's signing on the other hand...If it's a package deal with KD I take it. If they're not inclusive then I'm taking Russell. Sure, Kyrie is great. One of the best PG's in the NBA but I don't think he's worth the headache. I have high hopes for him though.
DJ's signing is like Kyrie's. If it's not inclusive I don't do it. DJ will hopefully be more engaged and he will hopefully be able to bounce back, but having him and Allen could be an awkward situation of 2 guys that could start but 1 who's going to be benched and that could have some conflict with one person leaving.
Wilson Chandler is a great signing. I think he'll have a nice role filling in for the broken superstar.
I'm going to be honest, I don't get using the room exception on Temple. Between Levert, Harris, Dinwiddie, Prince, later on Nwaba, and maybe even Musa/the ghost of KD they had more than enough wing minutes taken up, particularly at SG but I think their resources could've been better used at PF (either J Green for example).
I am a fan of Nwaba and Pinson's signings though. They kinda make up for Napier and Graham's trades.

Depth Chart:
Honestly, even without KD I kinda like the bones of this team. They have a lot of nice pieces that can slide into multiple positions and they are relatively deep.

Needs:
Strong vet leadership. I love the Nets brain trust but there's some interesting people on this team and they need good guys in there helping out and keeping everyone from going crazy.
A moderately healthy KD not being rushed back is a need too. They're a good team now, but with KD they're a great team.
A legit starting caliber PF to compete with Kurocs.


Additional Thoughts:
This team had a fighter's mentality last year with a bunch of guys that had guts. Marks and co. went out of their way to find specific guys who belonged on the team and mold it perfectly. Losing guys like Carroll, Davis, and a vastly maturing Russell (who became the heart and soul of the team) for guys like Kyrie, DJ and KD is a huge upgrade in talent, but I don't think it's a good move fit wise. Their culture could potentially take a HUGE hit with their changes and it'll be hard to bounce back from.

Projected Win/Loss: 44-38
I think this team will be a gritty late seed playoff team and they'll be a pain in the butt for whichever team they meet in the playoffs (eventually lose 1st round most likely) but I think this will be a fun league pass team.

Off Season Grade: B+
Ugh. They got 2 of the best FA's on the market, they filled rest of the lineup nicely and they'll likely be a playoff team without their best player (and their 2nd best player, don't @ me) but....

The Crabbe trade was an overpay.
DJ was an overpay and a bad allocation of resources. (Although for KD)
Swapping Kyrie for Russell is a loss.
Temple is a bad allocation of resources.
Their culture and identity is going to nose dive because their signings don't fit who they are.
They gave the GOAT team a means of becoming a good team again while losing their best player (and in turn allowed themselves to be able to overpay DJ)


HartfordWhalers wrote:HW's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Brooklyn lost 3 of their top 6 in minutes played, and 6 of their top 10. That is a lot of discontinuity. That said, what did they lose?
A bunch of role players and DLO. The Russell to Kyrie swap is a massive improvement across the board and will be discussed below, and Deandre Jordan is a richer man's Ed Davis.

The one loss here worth spending more time on is Carroll. Carroll is good enough of a player and presence setter and exactly the sort of player that you would want to still have while Durant is out and off the bench when he is back. It will be interesting to see how well Prince can step into this role.

Losses:
The Nets lost a lot of bodies. This is really just a new team.

Draft:
I probably would have considered going for a sf based off their depth chart and filling in for Durant, but Claxton doesn't look like a bad pickup. I would have liked if they could have bought a 2nd rounder and added 2 guys.

Trades:
Getting a 1st for Russell was an amazing coup. Dumping Crabbe so you can sign Kyrie and DUrant is worth the cost it takes, but o the extent that the price was also for Prince I have concerns.


Free Agency:
Getting Durant and Kyrie is absolute worth the risks. It is a must do signing.

So the discussion really comes down to were DAJ and Temple the right picks and worth their deals? Given how Kyrie and Durant structured their deals to get DAJ, it was basically found money and a no brainer. And I like the fit, Allen isn't the most proven or the best rebounder; having a second rotational center in your 8-10 man rotation was needed.

Temple struck me as the strange fit. I'm no sure how many minutes he gets, and if their wasn't someone better to grab.

Current Depth Chart: (taken from realgm with reason added in)
SF position looks weak. PF is questionable too. I am guessing they play Joe Harris at the 3 a fair amount to make room for a full guard crop and a weak forward position (a leas his year), but Prince will certainly have a chance to shine.

Needs:
Durant fully recovering. Some forward help until then.

Additional Thoughts:
I wonder if there is a Levert trade, or if the team decides they need his instant offense off the bench. I could see a win now trade of him, but salaries will be tough.
Amazing that the Nets still have Deron Williams eating cap space. The team has really come so far.

Projected Win/Loss: 48 wins I am not as skeptical of Kyrie as some, and have the Nets looking even with the Celtics all season. If a team like Indy can steal the 3 spot, a Nets Celtics 4/5 first round series would be amazing tv.

Off-Season Grade: A Got Kyrie and Durant. Got more around Kyrie and Durant than I expected. Got more for DLo than expected. This offseason was a win.



pacers33granger wrote:Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Brooklyn had some losses that would be major for almost any other team. They lost a young all star PG, decent starting vet SF, and a very solid backup C. But they upgraded each of those so hard to say they really had any major losses even if I personally like Dlo more than Kyrie longterm.

Losses:
Not much to speak of here, mostly just stopgap guys who finally ran their course. I do think Dudley will be closer to a key loss and they could have really used him back, but his oncourt value is pretty low.

Draft:
Claxton could be a good fit and some had him mocked a decent amount later. Clearly Brooklyn was trying not to take on any money in the draft so getting a potential first round talent in the 2nd is solid for them.

Trades:
Getting a first for signing KD and when they had to renounce Dlo is just a great move, even if it only happened because GS needed to do something. I think they overpaid in the Crabbe dump and I'm not a fan of getting Prince. I would have preferred to find a better player than Prince if I was giving up the extra first or add something else (2nds, minor prospects) in lieu of the second first. They struck early though and that was the price.

Free Agency:
I'm not a Kyrie fan and who knows how Durant will come back. DAJ was overpaid, but seemed necessary to get their two stars and they gave up money for him anyways. Hard to say they didn't kill the offseason.

Final thoughts
Again, I don't like betting on Kyrie. I'm also a Dlo fan and think he's worth his max more than Kyrie is going forward. But Kyrie is an elite talent and they don't get Durant without him. I don't think the Nets will be that good while Durant is out, but Marks did a masterful job of rebuilding and they have as good a shot at a title in years 2-4 as anyone.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#2 » by Jalexjsmithj » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:06 am

Mamba4Goat wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:Brooklyn review
Mamba4Goat's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Feel free to come at me with your p'itch forks but swapping Russell for Kyrie is a massive massive locker room and chemistry loss. Sure, their ceiling as a team is higher and it was a necessary evil of getting KD but by golly that swap will look worse and worse as the season goes on. Hopefully Dinwiddie (who's apparently friends with Kyrie or something) can work his magic and fix things.


Alright I’m coming with my pitchfork. Let’s look at friendships on this team. KD has been a well documented mentor for Caris Levert and Caris said KD like a big brother in April. You’re totally skirting the authenticity of the Kyrie and Dinwiddie friendship, check out the Athletics’ podcast for more of that. They brought one of the best culture guys in the league in with DJ who’s specifically tight with KD. KD reps UT insanely hard from his college days and has ties to Jarrett Allen and went out of his way to welcome Allen when he came into the league. And the relationship that ties all this together is the KD-Kyrie friendship which Jay Williams (in the KD circle) basically told Zach Lowe on his podcast that the friendship with Kyrie was a core reason to go to Brooklyn. The heart of this team is that it’s a bunch of buddies from all over the league. Why does this matter? Because friendship and winning are the 2 pillars of chemistry, and they’re going to have both.

One final point on this... it’s not like the Nets chemistry was dramatically elevating this team. They were the 6 seed in the JV conference, where the teams directly behind them who could of taken their spot had stars like... Justice Winslow? Vucevic? The Blake and Drummomd combo has some star power but it’s a team with no guards. It would of been difficult for them to do worse than 6th. This is not the 02 Pistons where you’re interrupting a perfect ecosystem, hell Levert and Dlo never had their best games at the same time anyway. I’d much rather have the new squad talent-wise AND the new team relationship-wise. I consider myself unbiased in that choice, I’m not a Nets fan.


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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#3 » by Papi_swav » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:12 am

Nothing less than an A
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#4 » by Mamba4Goat » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:21 am

Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:Brooklyn review
Mamba4Goat's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Feel free to come at me with your p'itch forks but swapping Russell for Kyrie is a massive massive locker room and chemistry loss. Sure, their ceiling as a team is higher and it was a necessary evil of getting KD but by golly that swap will look worse and worse as the season goes on. Hopefully Dinwiddie (who's apparently friends with Kyrie or something) can work his magic and fix things.


Alright I’m coming with my pitchfork. Let’s look at friendships on this team. KD has been a well documented mentor for Caris Levert and Caris said KD like a big brother in April. You’re totally skirting the authenticity of the Kyrie and Dinwiddie friendship, check out the Athletics’ podcast for more of that. They brought one of the best culture guys in the league in with DJ who’s specifically tight with KD. KD reps UT insanely hard from his college days and has ties to Jarrett Allen and went out of his way to welcome Allen when he came into the league. And the relationship that ties all this together is the KD-Kyrie friendship which Jay Williams (in the KD circle) basically told Zach Lowe on his podcast that the friendship with Kyrie was a core reason to go to Brooklyn. The heart of this team is that it’s a bunch of buddies from all over the league. Why does this matter? Because friendship and winning are the 2 pillars of chemistry, and they’re going to have both.

One final point on this... it’s not like the Nets chemistry was dramatically elevating this team. They were the 6 seed in the JV conference, where the teams directly behind them who could of taken their spot had stars like... Justice Winslow? Vucevic? The Blake and Drummomd combo has some star power but it’s a team with no guards. It would of been difficult for them to do worse than 6th. This is not the 02 Pistons where you’re interrupting a perfect ecosystem, hell Levert and Dlo never had their best games at the same time anyway. I’d much rather have the new squad talent-wise AND the new team relationship-wise. I consider myself unbiased in that choice, I’m not a Nets fan.


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KD isn't the one I'm worried about. If I could have got KD and heck, even DJ and kept Russell over Kyrie I would have. I may be reading into things too much but there was a stark difference between the D'Lo led team (which had heart, played hard, and was a legit team while over achieving) and the Kyrie led team (which played selfishly, no chemistry, and smacked each other around in the press while under achieving). D'Lo improved a lot as the season went in and a lot of the interviews/stories on him showed how much he matured and how big of a student he was of the coaching staff's. This dude was the Brooklyn Nets last year. Kyrie on the other hand ran a total mess last year and was responsible for most of it.

Hopefully everyone offsets everyone else, but I think Brooklyn ruined an amazing culture with some of their signings.
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Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#5 » by Jalexjsmithj » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:37 am

Mamba4Goat wrote:
Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:


Alright I’m coming with my pitchfork. Let’s look at friendships on this team. KD has been a well documented mentor for Caris Levert and Caris said KD like a big brother in April. You’re totally skirting the authenticity of the Kyrie and Dinwiddie friendship, check out the Athletics’ podcast for more of that. They brought one of the best culture guys in the league in with DJ who’s specifically tight with KD. KD reps UT insanely hard from his college days and has ties to Jarrett Allen and went out of his way to welcome Allen when he came into the league. And the relationship that ties all this together is the KD-Kyrie friendship which Jay Williams (in the KD circle) basically told Zach Lowe on his podcast that the friendship with Kyrie was a core reason to go to Brooklyn. The heart of this team is that it’s a bunch of buddies from all over the league. Why does this matter? Because friendship and winning are the 2 pillars of chemistry, and they’re going to have both.

One final point on this... it’s not like the Nets chemistry was dramatically elevating this team. They were the 6 seed in the JV conference, where the teams directly behind them who could of taken their spot had stars like... Justice Winslow? Vucevic? The Blake and Drummomd combo has some star power but it’s a team with no guards. It would of been difficult for them to do worse than 6th. This is not the 02 Pistons where you’re interrupting a perfect ecosystem, hell Levert and Dlo never had their best games at the same time anyway. I’d much rather have the new squad talent-wise AND the new team relationship-wise. I consider myself unbiased in that choice, I’m not a Nets fan.


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KD isn't the one I'm worried about. If I could have got KD and heck, even DJ and kept Russell over Kyrie I would have. I may be reading into things too much but there was a stark difference between the D'Lo led team (which had heart, played hard, and was a legit team while over achieving) and the Kyrie led team (which played selfishly, no chemistry, and smacked each other around in the press while under achieving). D'Lo improved a lot as the season went in and a lot of the interviews/stories on him showed how much he matured and how big of a student he was of the coaching staff's. This dude was the Brooklyn Nets last year. Kyrie on the other hand ran a total mess last year and was responsible for most of it.

Hopefully everyone offsets everyone else, but I think Brooklyn ruined an amazing culture with some of their signings.


But why don’t you credit the strong culture that turned around what was a guy who was basically excommunicated by his fellow players in the league after the Swaggy P video and has continued to have bone headed off the court incidents, why can’t they replicate that culture around Kyrie?

Also, it was an amazing culture...that resulted in the 6 seed in the JV East.


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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#6 » by loserX » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:52 am

Great work, guys. My post is going to feel very unoriginal since I agree with much of what was already said :D

Best move: I mean yeah. Getting Kyrie and KD is a huge coup, though as I mentioned at the time, the real credit covers the last few years, where management took the team back from punchline to talk of the town. Big extra bonus points for turning the KD acquisition into a double S&T for DeAngelo Russell, letting them add a pick and *dump* (minor) salary for a guy that otherwise might have been renounced for nothing. Can't expect better value than that.

Worst move: They probably overpaid to dump Crabbe and overpaid to sign Jordan, but if it made those Best Moves happen, I doubt the team has lost one wink of sleep over them.

One question: with big headlines comes big pressure. How do the Nets react to a whole new world? Their additions bring talent and buzz, but there are risks too. Durant has a massive injury to come back from, and Kyrie (who has now left *two* situations on sour notes) is going to have one year as his team's best player followed by years where he is not. Has he figured this leadership stuff out yet?
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#7 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:02 pm

Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:Brooklyn review
Mamba4Goat's Brooklyn Offseason Review

Key Losses:
Feel free to come at me with your p'itch forks but swapping Russell for Kyrie is a massive massive locker room and chemistry loss. Sure, their ceiling as a team is higher and it was a necessary evil of getting KD but by golly that swap will look worse and worse as the season goes on. Hopefully Dinwiddie (who's apparently friends with Kyrie or something) can work his magic and fix things.


Alright I’m coming with my pitchfork. Let’s look at friendships on this team. KD has been a well documented mentor for Caris Levert and Caris said KD like a big brother in April. You’re totally skirting the authenticity of the Kyrie and Dinwiddie friendship, check out the Athletics’ podcast for more of that. They brought one of the best culture guys in the league in with DJ who’s specifically tight with KD. KD reps UT insanely hard from his college days and has ties to Jarrett Allen and went out of his way to welcome Allen when he came into the league. And the relationship that ties all this together is the KD-Kyrie friendship which Jay Williams (in the KD circle) basically told Zach Lowe on his podcast that the friendship with Kyrie was a core reason to go to Brooklyn. The heart of this team is that it’s a bunch of buddies from all over the league. Why does this matter? Because friendship and winning are the 2 pillars of chemistry, and they’re going to have both.

One final point on this... it’s not like the Nets chemistry was dramatically elevating this team. They were the 6 seed in the JV conference, where the teams directly behind them who could of taken their spot had stars like... Justice Winslow? Vucevic? The Blake and Drummomd combo has some star power but it’s a team with no guards. It would of been difficult for them to do worse than 6th. This is not the 02 Pistons where you’re interrupting a perfect ecosystem, hell Levert and Dlo never had their best games at the same time anyway. I’d much rather have the new squad talent-wise AND the new team relationship-wise. I consider myself unbiased in that choice, I’m not a Nets fan.


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Yeah, I have few worries about chemistry and Kyrie in particular. He wants to be here and has long wanted to be here. He did not want to be in Boston from the start IMO. He is going be the #1 option this year and have free reign for the most part.

Otherwise, the connections are all over

Dinwiddie is close with and recruited Kyrie
Kyrie is close to KD
Kyrie and KD are close with Jordan (2016 Olympics)
Kyrie wanted the Nets to sign Temple
Allen, Jordan, Durant all Texas guys
Durant is close to and has trained with LeVert (told LeVert Dr.O'Malley their mutual foot doctor would make him better than ever)
Durant and T.Prince are close
Chandler, Jordan, Irving all Vegans (hey, it's the little things)
Dinwiddie, Harris, LeVert, Allen, Kurucs, Musa, Pinson all have at least 1 year together

That said.. there is culture and chemistry already in place from the hold overs, from the top down and that has been here for some time. I do think last year's team overachieved thanks to their chemistry. They were projected at around a 30 win team IIRC. They played harder than any Nets team I have seen in probably a decade, they rooted hard for one another and played unselfishly.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#8 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:05 pm

Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:
Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Alright I’m coming with my pitchfork. Let’s look at friendships on this team. KD has been a well documented mentor for Caris Levert and Caris said KD like a big brother in April. You’re totally skirting the authenticity of the Kyrie and Dinwiddie friendship, check out the Athletics’ podcast for more of that. They brought one of the best culture guys in the league in with DJ who’s specifically tight with KD. KD reps UT insanely hard from his college days and has ties to Jarrett Allen and went out of his way to welcome Allen when he came into the league. And the relationship that ties all this together is the KD-Kyrie friendship which Jay Williams (in the KD circle) basically told Zach Lowe on his podcast that the friendship with Kyrie was a core reason to go to Brooklyn. The heart of this team is that it’s a bunch of buddies from all over the league. Why does this matter? Because friendship and winning are the 2 pillars of chemistry, and they’re going to have both.

One final point on this... it’s not like the Nets chemistry was dramatically elevating this team. They were the 6 seed in the JV conference, where the teams directly behind them who could of taken their spot had stars like... Justice Winslow? Vucevic? The Blake and Drummomd combo has some star power but it’s a team with no guards. It would of been difficult for them to do worse than 6th. This is not the 02 Pistons where you’re interrupting a perfect ecosystem, hell Levert and Dlo never had their best games at the same time anyway. I’d much rather have the new squad talent-wise AND the new team relationship-wise. I consider myself unbiased in that choice, I’m not a Nets fan.


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KD isn't the one I'm worried about. If I could have got KD and heck, even DJ and kept Russell over Kyrie I would have. I may be reading into things too much but there was a stark difference between the D'Lo led team (which had heart, played hard, and was a legit team while over achieving) and the Kyrie led team (which played selfishly, no chemistry, and smacked each other around in the press while under achieving). D'Lo improved a lot as the season went in and a lot of the interviews/stories on him showed how much he matured and how big of a student he was of the coaching staff's. This dude was the Brooklyn Nets last year. Kyrie on the other hand ran a total mess last year and was responsible for most of it.

Hopefully everyone offsets everyone else, but I think Brooklyn ruined an amazing culture with some of their signings.


But why don’t you credit the strong culture that turned around what was a guy who was basically excommunicated by his fellow players in the league after the Swaggy P video and has continued to have bone headed off the court incidents, why can’t they replicate that culture around Kyrie?

Also, it was an amazing culture...that resulted in the 6 seed in the JV East.



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They absolutely could.

I think the skepticism originates from seeing the Celtics, who too had an amazing culture that lead to them making back to back conference finals [including leading a game 7 with 5 minutes left to play], utterly fall flat last year. Sometimes adding a player into the mix doesnt have a straight positive or neutral impact. Kyrie has been highly mercurial in his career to date and people believe that he’s not going to suddenly change his ways [he absolutely may, FWIW— I’m not taking an opinion here, moreso just explaining the skepticism].
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#9 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:12 pm

I dont see how the Nets offseason could be anything other than an A. Even if things end bad this year [I think they will, see below] and KD doesnt recover as a top 3-5 player, this was a fantastic offseason and Marks has done a great job rebuilding the Nets.

I could see this year getting ugly, though. Kyrie has shown that he can and will shut down/not give max effort when he doesnt believe he can win it all. I could see Kyrie focusing moreso on health/developing the youth than giving full effort to win games this year. I’m also skeptical on Caris Levert, who struggled to produce at an efficient level when he wasnt the primary option. Their defense should also be quite poor next year as well, as Kyrie, Prince and DAJ did not show well defensively last year.

With that said, even a 40-42 season wouldnt change my opinion on this offseason and the team should seriously compete for a title in the 2020-21 season. A offseason for sure.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#10 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:28 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Jalexjsmithj wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:
KD isn't the one I'm worried about. If I could have got KD and heck, even DJ and kept Russell over Kyrie I would have. I may be reading into things too much but there was a stark difference between the D'Lo led team (which had heart, played hard, and was a legit team while over achieving) and the Kyrie led team (which played selfishly, no chemistry, and smacked each other around in the press while under achieving). D'Lo improved a lot as the season went in and a lot of the interviews/stories on him showed how much he matured and how big of a student he was of the coaching staff's. This dude was the Brooklyn Nets last year. Kyrie on the other hand ran a total mess last year and was responsible for most of it.

Hopefully everyone offsets everyone else, but I think Brooklyn ruined an amazing culture with some of their signings.


But why don’t you credit the strong culture that turned around what was a guy who was basically excommunicated by his fellow players in the league after the Swaggy P video and has continued to have bone headed off the court incidents, why can’t they replicate that culture around Kyrie?

Also, it was an amazing culture...that resulted in the 6 seed in the JV East.



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They absolutely could.

I think the skepticism originates from seeing the Celtics, who too had an amazing culture that lead to them making back to back conference finals [including leading a game 7 with 5 minutes left to play], utterly fall flat last year. Sometimes adding a player into the mix doesnt have a straight positive or neutral impact. Kyrie has been highly mercurial in his career to date and people believe that he’s not going to suddenly change his ways [he absolutely may, FWIW— I’m not taking an opinion here, moreso just explaining the skepticism].

This is fair. And to expound on what I said, I don't think this year's team can match or replicate last year's chemistry, but I also don't think it will be a detriment or concern.. Mostly because it will be a different vibe. Last year's team played loose and fun, yet hard. They had no expectations and liked being the underdog. Russell really got his teammates into things and loved the crowd. It was an innocent vibe.

This year's team now has pressure and expectations. They aren't going to be well liked by most. Irving is one of the most disliked players in the NBA and KD has his fair share of detractors as well. While the vet additions are pretty solid, Carroll, Davis and Dudley were so much more than just players on the court.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#11 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:41 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Jalexjsmithj wrote:
But why don’t you credit the strong culture that turned around what was a guy who was basically excommunicated by his fellow players in the league after the Swaggy P video and has continued to have bone headed off the court incidents, why can’t they replicate that culture around Kyrie?

Also, it was an amazing culture...that resulted in the 6 seed in the JV East.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They absolutely could.

I think the skepticism originates from seeing the Celtics, who too had an amazing culture that lead to them making back to back conference finals [including leading a game 7 with 5 minutes left to play], utterly fall flat last year. Sometimes adding a player into the mix doesnt have a straight positive or neutral impact. Kyrie has been highly mercurial in his career to date and people believe that he’s not going to suddenly change his ways [he absolutely may, FWIW— I’m not taking an opinion here, moreso just explaining the skepticism].

This is fair. And to expound on what I said, I don't think this year's team can match or replicate last year's chemistry, but I also don't think it will be a detriment or concern.. Mostly because it will be a different vibe. Last year's team played loose and fun, yet hard. They had no expectations and liked being the underdog. Russell really got his teammates into things and loved the crowd. It was an innocent vibe.

This year's team now has pressure and expectations. They aren't going to be well liked by most. Irving is one of the most disliked players in the NBA and KD has his fair share of detractors as well. While the vet additions are pretty solid, Carroll, Davis and Dudley were so much more than just players on the court.


Agreed— to further expound, I think Russell gets underrated for how good of a teammate he was last year. He was benched for his defense multiple times last season, and each time he’d be up off the bench cheering for his teammates. That resonates with other teammates and also goes to show everyone that there are no favorites and everyone will be coached equally.

This just wont happen with Kyrie. He’ll have similar defensive lapses and Atkinson wont bench him. If he does, Kyrie sure as hell wont be standing up and cheering [the guy couldnt even make it to support his teammates during a game 7 in the ECFs vs his former team]. Little things like that add up and result in a different culture [not necessarily worse, just different that other teammates will need to adjust to].
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#12 » by IAMRANDYMARSH » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:53 pm

Papi_swav wrote:Nothing less than an A


Yeah, i agree. The Nets had a perfect offseason.

Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen are awesome young prospects to build around.
Joe Harris, Dinwiddie, Nwaba, DeAndre and Prince are solid. Not sure if KD is going to make it back for the playoffs, but they're going to be really good with the guys they have.

Lost D-Lo, but that had to happen in order to land KD-Kyrie, but smart to do a s/t and grab an asset in the process.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#13 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:53 pm

cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#14 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:57 pm

Stillwater wrote:cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete

Kobe: Left achilles
Rudy Gay: left achilles
Cousins: Left achilles
Wes Matthews: Left achilles
Elton Brand: Left achilles
Memet Okur: Left achilles
Chauncey Billups: Left achilles
Brandon Jennings: Left achilles
Anderson Varajao: Left achilles
Leonard: Left achilles
All really struggled to come back and weren’t 100%
Wilkins: right achilles, better than pre injury
Durant: right achilles TBD

All the players who had their careers ended were right handed and tore their left achilles. Durant is right handed and tore his right achilles.

But this phenomena isn’t limited to basketball.

Virtually every professional athlete that has come back at 100% from a ruptured achilles has had 1 thing in common: Howie Kendrick, DeMaryius Thomas, Zach Britton, Jason Peters, Derrick Johnson(1st time, 2nd when he ruined his career it was the left), Michael Crabtree, Brent Grimes, Dan Marino, Terrell Suggs, Lawrence Taylor, Vince Wilfork.
Every single one of them tore their RIGHT achilles tendon. I’m not sure if there’s been one single case of someone successfully coming back 100% after tearing their left, whereas there has been significant evidence that tearing the non-dominant Achilles has had negligible impact on performance/career trajectory outside of time missed during rehabilitation. As a matter of fact, almost every single elite athlete that has torn their right achilles while they were still in or near their prime has come back even stronger the following season.


Credit to rbynyc11 on Netsdaily.

KD is also one of the best shooters of all time and might come back as a PF/Dirk type.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#15 » by Jalexjsmithj » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:34 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
They absolutely could.

I think the skepticism originates from seeing the Celtics, who too had an amazing culture that lead to them making back to back conference finals [including leading a game 7 with 5 minutes left to play], utterly fall flat last year. Sometimes adding a player into the mix doesnt have a straight positive or neutral impact. Kyrie has been highly mercurial in his career to date and people believe that he’s not going to suddenly change his ways [he absolutely may, FWIW— I’m not taking an opinion here, moreso just explaining the skepticism].

This is fair. And to expound on what I said, I don't think this year's team can match or replicate last year's chemistry, but I also don't think it will be a detriment or concern.. Mostly because it will be a different vibe. Last year's team played loose and fun, yet hard. They had no expectations and liked being the underdog. Russell really got his teammates into things and loved the crowd. It was an innocent vibe.

This year's team now has pressure and expectations. They aren't going to be well liked by most. Irving is one of the most disliked players in the NBA and KD has his fair share of detractors as well. While the vet additions are pretty solid, Carroll, Davis and Dudley were so much more than just players on the court.


Agreed— to further expound, I think Russell gets underrated for how good of a teammate he was last year. He was benched for his defense multiple times last season, and each time he’d be up off the bench cheering for his teammates. That resonates with other teammates and also goes to show everyone that there are no favorites and everyone will be coached equally.

This just wont happen with Kyrie. He’ll have similar defensive lapses and Atkinson wont bench him. If he does, Kyrie sure as hell wont be standing up and cheering [the guy couldnt even make it to support his teammates during a game 7 in the ECFs vs his former team]. Little things like that add up and result in a different culture [not necessarily worse, just different that other teammates will need to adjust to].


Except it might happen with Kyrie. He’s going to see KD on the sideline every game this year cheering, KD and a vet like DJ are not going to hesitate to call Kyrie out on his BS when KD is living the mixed emotions on the bench every night and still acting like a leader. Also, I still can’t emphasize enough what the difference in the way someone will act for people he likes vs people he doesn’t. He’s going to like the Nets, he clearly didn’t like the Celtics. He’s going to act different.

Also, just like Kyrie has a careers-worth of causing trouble, Atkinson has a whole track record of holding everyone accountable on defense. If anything, he’s more likely to get fired because he’s not changing his ways. Frankly, that’s probably closer to what Kyrie needs.


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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#16 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:56 pm

Jalexjsmithj wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:This is fair. And to expound on what I said, I don't think this year's team can match or replicate last year's chemistry, but I also don't think it will be a detriment or concern.. Mostly because it will be a different vibe. Last year's team played loose and fun, yet hard. They had no expectations and liked being the underdog. Russell really got his teammates into things and loved the crowd. It was an innocent vibe.

This year's team now has pressure and expectations. They aren't going to be well liked by most. Irving is one of the most disliked players in the NBA and KD has his fair share of detractors as well. While the vet additions are pretty solid, Carroll, Davis and Dudley were so much more than just players on the court.


Agreed— to further expound, I think Russell gets underrated for how good of a teammate he was last year. He was benched for his defense multiple times last season, and each time he’d be up off the bench cheering for his teammates. That resonates with other teammates and also goes to show everyone that there are no favorites and everyone will be coached equally.

This just wont happen with Kyrie. He’ll have similar defensive lapses and Atkinson wont bench him. If he does, Kyrie sure as hell wont be standing up and cheering [the guy couldnt even make it to support his teammates during a game 7 in the ECFs vs his former team]. Little things like that add up and result in a different culture [not necessarily worse, just different that other teammates will need to adjust to].


Except it might happen with Kyrie. He’s going to see KD on the sideline every game this year cheering, KD and a vet like DJ are not going to hesitate to call Kyrie out on his BS when KD is living the mixed emotions on the bench every night and still acting like a leader. Also, I still can’t emphasize enough what the difference in the way someone will act for people he likes vs people he doesn’t. He’s going to like the Nets, he clearly didn’t like the Celtics. He’s going to act different.

Also, just like Kyrie has a careers-worth of causing trouble, Atkinson has a whole track record of holding everyone accountable on defense. If anything, he’s more likely to get fired because he’s not changing his ways. Frankly, that’s probably closer to what Kyrie needs.


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You are well within your rights to be optimistic for the future; however, you need to understand that people generally arent going to be as bullish as you are on Kyrie suddenly changing who he’s been to this point in his career. People very rarely suddenly change who they are.

If Atkinson benches Kyrie for defense, he will get fired. Kyrie didnt respect Ty Lue for getting on him about being selfish and he didnt respect Stevens when he tried to coach him. I’d strongly wager that trend continues.

Atkinson has never coached a player as talented as Kyrie— the rules are different with superstars and he’ll find that out the hard way if he’s stubborn.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#17 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:22 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
Stillwater wrote:cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete

Kobe: Left achilles
Rudy Gay: left achilles
Cousins: Left achilles
Wes Matthews: Left achilles
Elton Brand: Left achilles
Memet Okur: Left achilles
Chauncey Billups: Left achilles
Brandon Jennings: Left achilles
Anderson Varajao: Left achilles
Leonard: Left achilles
All really struggled to come back and weren’t 100%
Wilkins: right achilles, better than pre injury
Durant: right achilles TBD

All the players who had their careers ended were right handed and tore their left achilles. Durant is right handed and tore his right achilles.

But this phenomena isn’t limited to basketball.

Virtually every professional athlete that has come back at 100% from a ruptured achilles has had 1 thing in common: Howie Kendrick, DeMaryius Thomas, Zach Britton, Jason Peters, Derrick Johnson(1st time, 2nd when he ruined his career it was the left), Michael Crabtree, Brent Grimes, Dan Marino, Terrell Suggs, Lawrence Taylor, Vince Wilfork.
Every single one of them tore their RIGHT achilles tendon. I’m not sure if there’s been one single case of someone successfully coming back 100% after tearing their left, whereas there has been significant evidence that tearing the non-dominant Achilles has had negligible impact on performance/career trajectory outside of time missed during rehabilitation. As a matter of fact, almost every single elite athlete that has torn their right achilles while they were still in or near their prime has come back even stronger the following season.


Credit to rbynyc11 on Netsdaily.

KD is also one of the best shooters of all time and might come back as a PF/Dirk type.

certainly possible and would be great for the Nets to get that much out of him.
I'm not really opinionated about it, but gut tells me not to be optimistic.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#18 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:24 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
Stillwater wrote:cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete

Kobe: Left achilles
Rudy Gay: left achilles
Cousins: Left achilles
Wes Matthews: Left achilles
Elton Brand: Left achilles
Memet Okur: Left achilles
Chauncey Billups: Left achilles
Brandon Jennings: Left achilles
Anderson Varajao: Left achilles
Leonard: Left achilles
All really struggled to come back and weren’t 100%
Wilkins: right achilles, better than pre injury
Durant: right achilles TBD

All the players who had their careers ended were right handed and tore their left achilles. Durant is right handed and tore his right achilles.

But this phenomena isn’t limited to basketball.

Virtually every professional athlete that has come back at 100% from a ruptured achilles has had 1 thing in common: Howie Kendrick, DeMaryius Thomas, Zach Britton, Jason Peters, Derrick Johnson(1st time, 2nd when he ruined his career it was the left), Michael Crabtree, Brent Grimes, Dan Marino, Terrell Suggs, Lawrence Taylor, Vince Wilfork.
Every single one of them tore their RIGHT achilles tendon. I’m not sure if there’s been one single case of someone successfully coming back 100% after tearing their left, whereas there has been significant evidence that tearing the non-dominant Achilles has had negligible impact on performance/career trajectory outside of time missed during rehabilitation. As a matter of fact, almost every single elite athlete that has torn their right achilles while they were still in or near their prime has come back even stronger the following season.


Credit to rbynyc11 on Netsdaily.

KD is also one of the best shooters of all time and might come back as a PF/Dirk type.

certainly possible and would be great for the Nets to get that much out of him.
I'm not really opinionated about it, but gut tells me not to be optimistic.

Right, but your gut is probably based upon a majority of Achilles (right handed, left achilles) injuries, which KD did not have. (right handed, right achilles). This was news to me and gave me optimism.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#19 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:30 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:

Credit to rbynyc11 on Netsdaily.

KD is also one of the best shooters of all time and might come back as a PF/Dirk type.

certainly possible and would be great for the Nets to get that much out of him.
I'm not really opinionated about it, but gut tells me not to be optimistic.

Right, but your gut is probably based upon a majority of Achilles (right handed, left achilles) injuries, which KD did not have. (right handed, right achilles). This was news to me and gave me optimism.

I can't take much optimism from those statistics as they seem too convenient but I guess it makes sense to some degree if in fact just because he is a righty and it was his right tendon he falls into the better odds outcome category.
my gut tells me never trust generalized data unless you know so little about something you got nothing else to go on.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#20 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:19 pm

Stillwater wrote:cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete


I'd be more concerned about Kyrie in general than KD's injury. He may not be the same player he was before, but he will still be elite with his size and shooting.

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