Brooklyn Off Season Review

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, Trader_Joe, loserX, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan

How'd Brooklyn do?

A
16
48%
A-
2
6%
B+
4
12%
B
3
9%
B-
1
3%
C+
2
6%
C
1
3%
C-
1
3%
D
1
3%
F
2
6%
 
Total votes: 33

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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#21 » by BoogieTime » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:34 pm

Good info on the right Achilles/right handed player stuff, and good for Durant.

Still wanted Kyrie/Durant with Knicks instead. Would have been better for the league IMO
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#22 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:44 pm

Since the full post is on Twitter regarding Durant Achilles with more about rehab time as well...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#23 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:46 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
Stillwater wrote:certainly possible and would be great for the Nets to get that much out of him.
I'm not really opinionated about it, but gut tells me not to be optimistic.

Right, but your gut is probably based upon a majority of Achilles (right handed, left achilles) injuries, which KD did not have. (right handed, right achilles). This was news to me and gave me optimism.

I can't take much optimism from those statistics as they seem too convenient but I guess it makes sense to some degree if in fact just because he is a righty and it was his right tendon he falls into the better odds outcome category.
my gut tells me never trust generalized data unless you know so little about something you got nothing else to go on.

Ok, more specific, I put this in my review...

Also from Net Income (connected mod) at ND:
“Told as well that the rupture was high up on the calf where blood flow is the best, enhancing recovery. Best case scenario I was told"
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#24 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:06 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Stillwater wrote:cant knock going for it, but the jury will be out until KD proves he can be relevant still. Those injuries are terrible for any running jumping athlete


I'd be more concerned about Kyrie in general than KD's injury. He may not be the same player he was before, but he will still be elite with his size and shooting.

True offensively KD's ability to shoot over defenders should at least still be solid,even without much bounce... I disagree about the elite part because he will struggle to get to his spots& By most expectations for these types of injuries he will struggle to run the floor consistently and so therefore may not be a + defender except for flashes that are anomalies etc.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#25 » by penbeast0 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:34 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:Right, but your gut is probably based upon a majority of Achilles (right handed, left achilles) injuries, which KD did not have. (right handed, right achilles). This was news to me and gave me optimism.


Double checked and sure enough, John Wall is right handed with a left achilles injury. Bleep.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#26 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:12 pm

Key Losses:
The Nets lost 3 key pieces. Although I would not list them As Russell, Carroll, and Davis. I'd swap Davis for Crabbe. Not so much that Crabbe contributed much last season (he was injured for half and shot poorly the other half) but What he provides is a bigger loss for the Nets and tougher to replace then what Davis brought.

Davis was a good bench glue guy who hustled and rebounded on a team that lacked rebounding. But he really restricted what we could do on offense because Allen is such a good pick and roll player and Davis such a poor one. With Davis on the floor it was mostly dinwiddie and levert Isolation, and not the full motion offense/pick and rolls from the Allen/starting units. I think Davis is very replaceable. I'm not high on what Jordan has left in the tank but In my estimation 50% of Jordan should match 75-100% of Davis while still providing rebounding and also being able to operate at least some in the pick and roll. Crabbe gave us another shooter and floor spacer. this team was significantly worse offensively when Harris sat and 0-6 when he didnt play. I'd feel alot better if our room exception went to Ellington instead of temple.

Russell is the big loss. he was the biggest factor in our success last year and also was great with all his teammates. The Nets are returning so many young core pieces that im not worried about chemistry as much. Levert is still the heartbeat of this team along with Harris and Spencer. Kyrie does everything Russess does only better and I think will be a monster in Kennys offense. Those mid range short jumpers and floaters off the pick and roll russell got... Kyrie is better at those. the plays where russell got to the rim and could never finish.... kyrie is an excellent finisher. Russell also couldnt go to his right, Kyrie can play off either side. We were at our best when Russell was hot from three... Kyrie is better and more consistent from deep. on the court we just got a better player at what we do best. I have 0 concerns about Kyrie an chemistry. This isnt boston. completely different culture and infrustructure top to bottom:

-he wants to be here
-his friends are here
-young players are humble and accepting of their roles
-GM is player first, doesnt just view guys as assets
-coaching staff embraces all personalities

im not saying Kyrie will be teammate of the year but i dont anticipate any issues. there isnt a situation where young kids with egos think they should have his job or a coach who doesnt have respect of all his players and plays favorites. but above all he is with his friends at home where he chose to be.

Carroll i think will potentially be the loss we feel the most. he really was a big glue guy and had a knack for making timly plays. It will all depend on how Prince does here. I could see Kenny turning prince into a carroll clone... but carroll had a big vet savy to him im not sure prince replicates.

on paper we upgraded all 3 loses. we will need to see how it translates.

Losses:
RHJ was a great dude, longest tenured net, and great with fans. but he just wasnt a fit for the Markinson era. Kenny did great making him a center/power forward to minimize his shooting and ball handling issues. but it was always borrowed time. RHJ was a complete non factor last year who was reduced to garbage time and injury minutes (which turned out to be more then desired). On the floor Graham was probably a bigger loss for us. I'm not too farmiliar with Nwamba but the hope is he and temple can give some of what Graham gave which went beyond the numbers.

Dudley i may even move to a key loss. he was this teams father figure. he was super savy and was great on and off the floor. not sure how much of that chandler replaces but if i could bring back 1 guy this offseason who we lost it might be dudley even over carroll.

Losing napier is basically irrelevant. he was an emergency PG who provided little.

Draft:
31: Nicolas Claxton
I like the Claxton pick... alot of people are talking about him like he is a big but really what i saw was a Rudions Kurucs clone. high energy tweener who can handle the ball, isnt shy to shoot from deep, is savy with back door cuts, and aggressive end to end. plays like he belongs, not scared. i dont think he will be as good as kurucs, at least not early, but very similar body of work

Trades:
Hawks trade maybe a slight overpay... but they were going to have to pay a small premium to move Crabbe for cap space that early in the offseason. I think the FRP for Prince was good value. I think he could easily outplay that pick. Needing to get paid next year would factor in some cases but the nets will be an over the cap/under the tax team where it has less of an impact.

Getting a first for Russell is just icing on the cake.

Philly pick replenishes what we have and has at least some value to turn into an early 20s pick if philly rest/injury comes into play

Free Agency:
Just slam dunks all around. Anytime you land a top 5 and top 12 player in the same offseason, regardless of KD missing a year, its a massive home run. its even more impressive when you beat out 1 NY and 2 LA teams for their services. if we get the worst possible versions of Kyrie and KD its still great signings. the ceiling is multiple titles.

Like the Jordan singing too. even if he doesnt bring a ton on the court good teammate, mentor, and friends with Kyrie/KD to help build chemistry and continuity as opposed to just KD or just kyrie coming into the nets.

people hate on temple... id have prefered Ellington, but we need some bulldogs and defenders too, so im ok with it.

Chandler to me is a corpse player coach, hope he can bring some dudley type stuff


Depth Chart:
Nets have the perfect bones and infrustructure to plug and play stars: humble young to in prime players accepting of a role who want to work hard towards something big. Great balance of shooting, passing, ball handling and almost every Net is someone who can impact the game without the ball.

Harris and Levert will certainly start next to one anohter. i envision Kyrie/Levert/Harris/Kurucs/Allen with Spencer/Temple/Nwamba/Prince/Jordan off the bench.

would still love another sniper. Behind harris we dont have alot and he really is what makes our offense sing.

Needs:
Health and another sniper. an ellington/crabbe type to lend depth to harris. Health is important. Levert/Kyrie both are guys who have missed big chunks of time.


Additional Thoughts:
Excited for a season of kyrie under kenny. its the most PG friendly system kyrie would have played under especially as a #1 option. I think Kyrie could really put up some career numbers. I think people are wirting off the non-durant version of the nets team but 50+ wins and a top 3 seed is certainly attainable


Projected Win/Loss: 51-31
Kyrie will give the nets the type of play they got from russell in Jan/Feb only over the course of the entire year. Nets where an upper echelon team when Russell put up the numbers Kyrie consistently has put up.

Off Season Grade: A
Signing Durant alone would deserve an A. adding Kyrie, the extra FRP for russell and replacing Davis and Carroll with great faximiles is deserved of high praise.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#27 » by BullyKing » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:44 pm

Prokorov wrote: I have 0 concerns about Kyrie an chemistry. This isnt boston. completely different culture and infrustructure top to bottom:

-he wants to be here
-his friends are here
-young players are humble and accepting of their roles
-GM is player first, doesnt just view guys as assets
-coaching staff embraces all personalities



The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#28 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:53 pm

BullyKing wrote:
Prokorov wrote: I have 0 concerns about Kyrie an chemistry. This isnt boston. completely different culture and infrustructure top to bottom:

-he wants to be here
-his friends are here
-young players are humble and accepting of their roles
-GM is player first, doesnt just view guys as assets
-coaching staff embraces all personalities



The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.



I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#29 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:58 pm

I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#30 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:46 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.

I'm not a big Kyrie fan, but he has the resume of a top 15 player, 25 seems pretty low.

2nd Team All NBA last year (24/7/5 on 49/40)
6 time AS (1 AS-MVP)
1 Ring
Olympic Gold

And he's likely just hitting his peak prime at age 27.

I do side with Prok on this as well, in that I don't for see there being issues in Brooklyn considering it's where he chose to be, it's "home", he grew up a Nets fan, got his friends to come along (KD, Jordan and Temple) and had some friends on the team already (Dinwiddie) and he will be playing in a PG-centric system where he will have the green light to do what he wants. My main concern with Kyrie is durability more than anything.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#31 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:52 pm

Prokorov wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
Prokorov wrote: I have 0 concerns about Kyrie an chemistry. This isnt boston. completely different culture and infrustructure top to bottom:

-he wants to be here
-his friends are here
-young players are humble and accepting of their roles
-GM is player first, doesnt just view guys as assets
-coaching staff embraces all personalities



The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.



I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint

I think a few other factors should be mentioned.

-Horford also wanted out for whatever reason even though he knew Kyrie was leaving. So it doesn't seem like he scared Al away, rather the team as a whole did.

-Boston is not exactly a favorite city for athletes to play in partly because of some of the racism that has been and continues to be on display. We've also had AD make it known he did not want to go there in trade.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#32 » by BullyKing » Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:58 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.


Oh man, I missed the whole Kyrie being a top-12 player thing.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#33 » by BullyKing » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:01 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.



I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint

I think a few other factors should be mentioned.

-Horford also wanted out for whatever reason even though he knew Kyrie was leaving. So it doesn't seem like he scared Al away, rather the team as a whole did.

-Boston is not exactly a favorite city for athletes to play in partly because of some of the racism that has been and continues to be on display. We've also had AD make it known he did not want to go there in trade.


I haven't actually seen anything about Horford wanting out. The things I saw were that he was negotiating with the Celtics and they expected him back and then the Sixers came with a huge offer (overpay) that Boston was not going to match. Also that he wanted to play PF, which he'll obviously do more of on Philly than Boston.

I'm not taking a position on Boston having a reputation for racism. I think we can agree that its difficult to imagine the Celtics chemistry issues last year were due to it.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#34 » by BullyKing » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:06 pm

Prokorov wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
Prokorov wrote: I have 0 concerns about Kyrie an chemistry. This isnt boston. completely different culture and infrustructure top to bottom:

-he wants to be here
-his friends are here
-young players are humble and accepting of their roles
-GM is player first, doesnt just view guys as assets
-coaching staff embraces all personalities



The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.



I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint


Kyrie has become disenchanted at each of his two stops to date. That's not a long enough track record to know for sure whether he is the problem but you continue to kid yourself to think Brooklyn has proven that it knows how to manage a team with stars that expects to compete. Stevens issue of managing star egos only became apparent when he had stars with egos to manage. You keep saying Boston couldn't deal with X, Y, and Z issue but we're only about to start to find out whether Brooklyn can.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#35 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:14 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
The Nets had a great offseason, let's stipulate to that first. But this is a complete joke. Boston isn't some dysfunctional franchise -it's one of the most stable organizations in the entire league. You can say that Brooklyn has a completely different culture but to say that assumes that Kyrie didn't have a huge part in creating Boston's chemistry issues that year. Signing Kyrie (especially since it was likely a prerequisite for landing Durant) is a move you make ten times out of ten. But acting like there is zero chance Kyrie becomes an issue is just plain denial.



I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint

I think a few other factors should be mentioned.

-Horford also wanted out for whatever reason even though he knew Kyrie was leaving. So it doesn't seem like he scared Al away, rather the team as a whole did.

-Boston is not exactly a favorite city for athletes to play in partly because of some of the racism that has been and continues to be on display. We've also had AD make it known he did not want to go there in trade.


I think it is telling then every single veteran on Boston who had the option to leave, left:

Kyrie - opted out, then left
Horford - opted out, then left
Morris - signed elsewhere
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#36 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:17 pm

BullyKing wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.


Oh man, I missed the whole Kyrie being a top-12 player thing.


whether you want to call Kyrie a top 12 or top 15 or the 16th best player... argument can be made all around. he is one of the 10 or 15 best players in the league. 24/7/4 on elite efficiency for a G. if you want to put lillard and butler ahead of him no need to hash it out for 10 pages. but he is certainly better then the Kyle Lowrys of the word in the 20-25 range
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#37 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:17 pm

BullyKing wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:

I don't believe Boston is in a great state and believe there is actually a ton of dysfunction. You have a star chasing GM who throws his good young players names in and out of trades without apology. You have a coach who is poor at managing egos with a team full of egos and to make matters worse plays favorites to "his guy". You have a trio of young players who were accepting of their roles after the playoffs and who were vocal about not accepting their roles when established all-star veterans where ahead of them.

Kyrie handled it really poorly. but In his position it is kind of expected. you know your leaving... why bend over backwards to try and fit a square peg in a round hole when you know in 8 months you'll be in brooklyn? You have these young kids chirping about the ECF and a guy shooting 35% talking about he needs your minutes. it was a horrible situation and one the Gm/Coach did nothing to address. And ainge was glad to let it fester because he felt AD was at the end of that rainbow and the kids would be gone anyhow in a trade.

Situation couldnt be more different in BK. Kyrie wants to be here. instead of being on a team with big ego young players he is on a team of young blue collar young players who accept any role given to them. he is playing with his 2 closest friends in the league. the GM and coach are about players not assets.

I see no possible way that Kyrie is an issue in brooklyn. im much more concerned about kyrie from an injury standpoint

I think a few other factors should be mentioned.

-Horford also wanted out for whatever reason even though he knew Kyrie was leaving. So it doesn't seem like he scared Al away, rather the team as a whole did.

-Boston is not exactly a favorite city for athletes to play in partly because of some of the racism that has been and continues to be on display. We've also had AD make it known he did not want to go there in trade.

I haven't actually seen anything about Horford wanting out. The things I saw were that he was negotiating with the Celtics and they expected him back and then the Sixers came with a huge offer (overpay) that Boston was not going to match. Also that he wanted to play PF, which he'll obviously do more of on Philly than Boston.

I'm not taking a position on Boston having a reputation for racism. I think we can agree that its difficult to imagine the Celtics chemistry issues last year were due to it.


I'm not saying they are, but it might have something to do with why Kyrie never seemingly wanted to go to Boston. Don't think he had first hand experience per se, but the city's rep precedes itself.

Horford.. I dunno.. seems like he had been talking to Philly for some time and I don't see why Boston wouldn't have paid that for arguably their most important player especially after doing the acrobatics to make it possible to keep Horford even after getting Kemba.. Maybe just greener pastures from a basketball perspective, but either way, he left.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#38 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:27 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.

I'm not a big Kyrie fan, but he has the resume of a top 15 player, 25 seems pretty low.

2nd Team All NBA last year (24/7/5 on 49/40)
6 time AS (1 AS-MVP)
1 Ring
Olympic Gold

And he's likely just hitting his peak prime at age 27.


Obviously depends on individual definition, but I definitely do not have him top 15 in any way shape or form taking into account defense, leadership, etc. Certainly an elite scorer but there's so much more to rankings than that. He's closer to 10 than 5 overall if we're just talking guards and there are definitely at least 10 forwards/centers I think most would take over him.

Past achievements factor in quite low as well as I'm talking currently, otherwise I think there would still be a good chunk of guys ahead of him when we start taking past AS games and olympic stuff into account.

He's still an absolute steal to sign in free agency with just space.
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#39 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:42 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I can see points for Boston being dysfunctional and points for them being stable. But either way, it is undeniable that Kyrie is a weird dude and has had a long history of being a poor teammate overall, not just in Boston. You can say that part of that is due to the difficulty of being 2nd to Lebron and/or Cleveland being dysfunctional as a franchise, but Kyrie is probably the most likely "star" level player to cause issues right now. He's basically this era's Dwight.

I would also push back against the notion of him being a top 12 player and would say more top 25, but that's a whole different debate.

I'm not a big Kyrie fan, but he has the resume of a top 15 player, 25 seems pretty low.

2nd Team All NBA last year (24/7/5 on 49/40)
6 time AS (1 AS-MVP)
1 Ring
Olympic Gold

And he's likely just hitting his peak prime at age 27.


Obviously depends on individual definition, but I definitely do not have him top 15 in any way shape or form taking into account defense, leadership, etc. Certainly an elite scorer but there's so much more to rankings than that. He's closer to 10 than 5 overall if we're just talking guards and there are definitely at least 10 forwards/centers I think most would take over him.

Past achievements factor in quite low as well as I'm talking currently, otherwise I think there would still be a good chunk of guys ahead of him when we start taking past AS games and olympic stuff into account.

He's still an absolute steal to sign in free agency with just space.

I mentioned 2nd team all-NBA since it was just last season and his all star string he is right in the middle of. He's only 27 and just hitting his prime as well. GB is about to vote him probably at #16 in their player ranking (w/KD he would be #17) and TBH, I wonder if that's a bit low as I think it's pretty clear he's one of the most disliked player in the league. (and again I've never been a big Kyrie fan on or off the court.. since very early on... but I do think he's earned his place among the elite guards in the league)
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Re: Brooklyn Off Season Review 

Post#40 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:59 pm

I'm sure the Nets fans are jumping for Joy but Kyrie has been a locker room problem on 2 teams now. KD has a major injury and will not play in 2019-20. He may never be the same player.

I personally would not have went this way the risk of an implosion is very high and if KD is not able to get back to at least 80% of his former level of play he's gonna look awfully expensive in 2 yrs.

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