Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more?

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Paul or Wall?

Wall by a lot
7
8%
Paul by a little
38
45%
EVEN
4
5%
Wall by a little
10
12%
Paul by a lot
25
30%
 
Total votes: 84

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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#21 » by IAMRANDYMARSH » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:33 am

Paul has more value as he's going to be able to help a team win right now. But he's risky as he's already been missing 20 games/yr for the last 3 years and the track-record for 6'0'' guys in their mid 30s is bad to say the least.

Stockton is basically the only small guard to make it to his late 30s and in terms of durability he was a freak (missed 4 games in 89/90 and 16 in 97/98, that's it. 82 the rest of the way).

Wall's contract is one year longer and he may not be the same when he comes back from injury next season, so he's risky as well but at 6'4'' and 28 years he at least could be serviceable.

A bigger issue is that these guys both are so expensive that it's difficult match salaries for the few teams that might be semi-interested.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#22 » by Dat2U » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:05 am

poomaster wrote:Wall is a 50 million cap dead weight for the next 4 years. He is done with basketball, anyone hoping otherwise is living in lala land. Look at his injury history , age, a torn achilles and consider how much he relied on athleticism to be effective.

This will go down as probably one of if not the worst contract in NBA history.


He's 28, not 34. He's also 6-4 and one of the strongest guys in the league at his position and was only starting to utilize his post game to abuse smaller guards. No one is expecting Wall to come back and put up 25 & 10 but suggesting he is done with basketball is a completely over the top take yet a weirdly popular one on here.

There are horrific contracts signed every single offseason. Look what Tobias Harris & Klay coming off a torn ACL got. I don't hear anyone talking about KD who FULLY ruptured his achilles, is 30 and got $164 mil vs Wall who PARTIALLY tore his achillies. To be the worst contract of all time would require Wall to basically not be playable.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#23 » by youngcrev » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:17 am

penbeast0 wrote:For anyone not tanking, Paul. For a team not contending this year, Wall, even with the extra year, but it's a lot closer. Overall, easily Paul. But again, as Nate said, it depends on your team's circumstances.


I mean, I don't see a scenario where a team that's not trying to win now would trade for either.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#24 » by IAMRANDYMARSH » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:19 am

Dat2U wrote:
poomaster wrote:Wall is a 50 million cap dead weight for the next 4 years. He is done with basketball, anyone hoping otherwise is living in lala land. Look at his injury history , age, a torn achilles and consider how much he relied on athleticism to be effective.

This will go down as probably one of if not the worst contract in NBA history.


He's 28, not 34. He's also 6-4 and one of the strongest guys in the league at his position and was only starting to utilize his post game to abuse smaller guards. No one is expecting Wall to come back and put up 25 & 10 but suggesting he is done with basketball is a completely over the top take yet a weirdly popular one on here.

There are horrific contracts signed every single offseason. Look what Tobias Harris & Klay coming off a torn ACL got. I don't hear anyone talking about KD who FULLY ruptured his achilles, is 30 and got $164 mil vs Wall who PARTIALLY tore his achillies. To be the worst contract of all time would require Wall to basically not be playable.


No doubt Tobias, Klay and KD are risky deals as well. But Wall depend a lot on his athleticism to succeed and he'll be 30 by the time he sees the floor again.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#25 » by youngcrev » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:21 am

Dat2U wrote:
poomaster wrote:Wall is a 50 million cap dead weight for the next 4 years. He is done with basketball, anyone hoping otherwise is living in lala land. Look at his injury history , age, a torn achilles and consider how much he relied on athleticism to be effective.

This will go down as probably one of if not the worst contract in NBA history.


He's 28, not 34. He's also 6-4 and one of the strongest guys in the league at his position and was only starting to utilize his post game to abuse smaller guards. No one is expecting Wall to come back and put up 25 & 10 but suggesting he is done with basketball is a completely over the top take yet a weirdly popular one on here.

There are horrific contracts signed every single offseason. Look what Tobias Harris & Klay coming off a torn ACL got. I don't hear anyone talking about KD who FULLY ruptured his achilles, is 30 and got $164 mil vs Wall who PARTIALLY tore his achillies. To be the worst contract of all time would require Wall to basically not be playable.


Klay and KD are elite shooters. They don't rely on their athleticism as much as Wall.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#26 » by penbeast0 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:23 pm

youngcrev wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:For anyone not tanking, Paul. For a team not contending this year, Wall, even with the extra year, but it's a lot closer. Overall, easily Paul. But again, as Nate said, it depends on your team's circumstances.


I mean, I don't see a scenario where a team that's not trying to win now would trade for either.


(a) If enough future value is attached (OKC gives Paul and multiple unprotected 1sts for your teams big contract player who will help them win now -- not that I am suggesting either OKC or Washington does this but it's a possibility.

(b) If your contract is also really bad and your player more negatively impacts the creation of a team culture. For example, I would trade Wiggins for either as I think he's a negative on the court and his attitude and work ethic make him a negative off it as well I (not that I would do an even up trade of Wiggins for either as OKC or Washington but I would for Minnesota). Though to be fair, I think Minnesota with Paul would actually be a playoff team and possibly a contender if he's healthy the way he hasn't been for the last couple of years.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#27 » by shrink » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:52 pm

penbeast0 wrote:(b) If your contract is also really bad and your player more negatively impacts the creation of a team culture. For example, I would trade Wiggins for either as I think he's a negative on the court and his attitude and work ethic make him a negative off it as well I (not that I would do an even up trade of Wiggins for either as OKC or Washington but I would for Minnesota). Though to be fair, I think Minnesota with Paul would actually be a playoff team and possibly a contender if he's healthy the way he hasn't been for the last couple of years.

MIN is all about Towns. Wiggins (24) is the right team age. Chris Paul is 34, and if Ted Leonsis update is correct, John Wall will be 30 the next time he plays an NBA game. If you noted MIN’s transactions this summer, they are Win-Later, removing vets for younger players with upside. But above all this, Wiggins is also Towns’ buddy, and in five years, he has done nothing to upset the locker room. After we saw the damage an alpha like Jimmy Butler did to Towns and the locker room, you can be damn sure that they are not going to gamble on a guy like Chris Paul, who has clashed with previous teammates.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#28 » by DoItALL9 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:23 pm

CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear. CP3's talents weren't maximized next to super ball dominant James Harden.


I expect Paul can go back to being what he was his last year with LAC or similar numbers to his first season in Houston.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#29 » by Dat2U » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:34 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear.


Most of realgm feels this way though I doubt there's similar consensus around the league.

Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort.

Either way, Wall is not getting traded right now. There's no reason to do so while his value is at its lowest and when the Wizards are not a desirable FA destination at this time. Wall will get every opportunity to show his worth and as I keep saying, a year from now, his value will likely change with him relatively healthy with one year less remaining on his deal.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:43 pm

Dat2U wrote:Paul is 34 yrs old, I don't see how anyone can say Paul by a considerable margin.

Obviously Wall is out... so the fact Paul is relatively healthy at the moment makes him the win now play.

A year from now after Wall has come back any suggested advantage the Paul has could likely flip... especially if he has another similar decline next season.
CP3 will likely play this year. Wall won't. That has value. Teams will at least be able to watch CP3 play this year. That will have value next summer. Neither is worth anywhere near their contract and CP3 has one less year. That has value. Assuming CP3 doesn't experience a career ending injury, it won't be until well into the 2020-21 season before any of this changes.

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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#31 » by DoItALL9 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear.


Most of realgm feels this way though I doubt there's similar consensus around the league.

Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort.

Either way, Wall is not getting traded right now. There's no reason to do so while his value is at its lowest and when the Wizards are not a desirable FA destination at this time. Wall will get every opportunity to show his worth and as I keep saying, a year from now, his value will likely change with him relatively healthy with one year less remaining on his deal.


Dat2U wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear.


Most of realgm feels this way though I doubt there's similar consensus around the league.

Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort.

Either way, Wall is not getting traded right now. There's no reason to do so while his value is at its lowest and when the Wizards are not a desirable FA destination at this time. Wall will get every opportunity to show his worth and as I keep saying, a year from now, his value will likely change with him relatively healthy with one year less remaining on his deal.


I didn't say anything about trading Wall right now.
The Wizards won't be trading Wall I suspect. Reports have said the owner plans to save money by allowing the insurance to pay John Wall's salary this season. I believe that'll happen.

"Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort."

I didn't compare their games. I compared what they're careers will look like post- Achilles injury. Since John Wall hasn't played since getting hurt it couldn't reasonably be laughable yet.
You tried it. F for your effort.

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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#32 » by Dat2U » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:47 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear.


Most of realgm feels this way though I doubt there's similar consensus around the league.

Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort.

Either way, Wall is not getting traded right now. There's no reason to do so while his value is at its lowest and when the Wizards are not a desirable FA destination at this time. Wall will get every opportunity to show his worth and as I keep saying, a year from now, his value will likely change with him relatively healthy with one year less remaining on his deal.


Dat2U wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:CP3 by a wide margin. John Wall is finished imo. I expect the rest of his career to look similar to Brandon Jennings after his Achilles tear.


Most of realgm feels this way though I doubt there's similar consensus around the league.

Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort.

Either way, Wall is not getting traded right now. There's no reason to do so while his value is at its lowest and when the Wizards are not a desirable FA destination at this time. Wall will get every opportunity to show his worth and as I keep saying, a year from now, his value will likely change with him relatively healthy with one year less remaining on his deal.


I didn't say anything about trading Wall right now.
The Wizards won't be trading Wall I suspect. Reports have said the owner plans to save money by allowing the insurance to pay John Wall's salary this season. I believe that'll happen.

"Comparing Jennings to Wall is laughable tho. Other than being black and fast their games are nothing alike but I guess it's an E for effort."

I didn't compare their games. I compared what they're careers will look like post- Achilles injury. Since John Wall hasn't played since getting hurt it couldn't reasonably be laughable yet.
You tried it. F for your effort.

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Your suggesting that Wall post injury would have trouble staying in the league if he wasn't under contract. That's what comparing him to Brandon Jennings is saying, and yes that's laughable.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#33 » by Catchall » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:45 am

I think Paul maybe done and Wall may not be.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#34 » by NYG » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:18 pm

Wall’s value is way too dependent on his health to compare to any one. One fully healthy All-Star season versus injured over the next two years changes that Wall contract majorly.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#35 » by rugbyrugger23 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:40 pm

I still think swapping them makes most sense.

Paul
Gallinari
Noel

For

Wall
Miles
Mahinmi
FRP (this is where the value debate starts)

Wizards fully hand the team over to Beal while giving him more chances at winning this year in East. Paul and Gallinari (even Noel) are win-now upgrades for Beal’s team. And this trade gives them more flexibility with Paul’s 2+1.

OKC let’s Wall take his time coming back as they tank their way to a better pick. They have the guards on roster to fill in with Wall out — and when he comes back, Presti let’s him gain more trade value to be flipped next offseason or next trade deadline. Presti secures another 1st.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#36 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:44 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:I still think swapping them makes most sense.

Paul
Gallinari
Noel

For

Wall
Miles
Mahinmi
FRP (this is where the value debate starts)

Wizards fully hand the team over to Beal while giving him more chances at winning this year in East. Paul and Gallinari (even Noel) are win-now upgrades for Beal’s team. And this trade gives them more flexibility with Paul’s 2+1.

OKC let’s Wall take his time coming back as they tank their way to a better pick. They have the guards on roster to fill in with Wall out — and when he comes back, Presti let’s him gain more trade value to be flipped next offseason or next trade deadline. Presti secures another 1st.


Not interested. This is OKC giving value for a worse contract and who knows as a player.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#37 » by rugbyrugger23 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:48 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:I still think swapping them makes most sense.

Paul
Gallinari
Noel

For

Wall
Miles
Mahinmi
FRP (this is where the value debate starts)

Wizards fully hand the team over to Beal while giving him more chances at winning this year in East. Paul and Gallinari (even Noel) are win-now upgrades for Beal’s team. And this trade gives them more flexibility with Paul’s 2+1.

OKC let’s Wall take his time coming back as they tank their way to a better pick. They have the guards on roster to fill in with Wall out — and when he comes back, Presti let’s him gain more trade value to be flipped next offseason or next trade deadline. Presti secures another 1st.


Not interested. This is OKC giving value for a worse contract and who knows as a player.

OKC giving value?

Paul and Wall (as this poll shows) are close in value — Paul a little more.

Gallinari might fetch a 1st on his own — but most likely a late 1st.

Wizards team even in the East with Paul and Gallinari is not a juggernaut. Say a lotto protected 1st for Gallinari and the little value difference from Paul to Wall is good value coming TO OKC.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#38 » by Dat2U » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:07 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:I still think swapping them makes most sense.

Paul
Gallinari
Noel

For

Wall
Miles
Mahinmi
FRP (this is where the value debate starts)

Wizards fully hand the team over to Beal while giving him more chances at winning this year in East. Paul and Gallinari (even Noel) are win-now upgrades for Beal’s team. And this trade gives them more flexibility with Paul’s 2+1.

OKC let’s Wall take his time coming back as they tank their way to a better pick. They have the guards on roster to fill in with Wall out — and when he comes back, Presti let’s him gain more trade value to be flipped next offseason or next trade deadline. Presti secures another 1st.


Not interested. This is OKC giving value for a worse contract and who knows as a player.

OKC giving value?

Paul and Wall (as this poll shows) are close in value — Paul a little more.

Gallinari might fetch a 1st on his own — but most likely a late 1st.

Wizards team even in the East with Paul and Gallinari is not a juggernaut. Say a lotto protected 1st for Gallinari and the little value difference from Paul to Wall is good value coming TO OKC.


Hmm, interesting ...

Paul / I. Thomas / I. Smith
Beal / McRae
Gallinari / T. Brown Jr / Bonga
Bertans / Hachimura / Schofield
Bryant / Noel / Wagner

Looks like a 45 win team. Maybe an Iggy type acquisition away from pushing 50 wins which is better than any Wizards/Bullets team since the late 70s.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#39 » by psman2 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:11 am

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:I still think swapping them makes most sense.

Paul
Gallinari
Noel

For

Wall
Miles
Mahinmi
FRP (this is where the value debate starts)

Wizards fully hand the team over to Beal while giving him more chances at winning this year in East. Paul and Gallinari (even Noel) are win-now upgrades for Beal’s team. And this trade gives them more flexibility with Paul’s 2+1.

OKC let’s Wall take his time coming back as they tank their way to a better pick. They have the guards on roster to fill in with Wall out — and when he comes back, Presti let’s him gain more trade value to be flipped next offseason or next trade deadline. Presti secures another 1st.


Not interested. This is OKC giving value for a worse contract and who knows as a player.

OKC giving value?

Paul and Wall (as this poll shows) are close in value — Paul a little more.

Gallinari might fetch a 1st on his own — but most likely a late 1st.

Wizards team even in the East with Paul and Gallinari is not a juggernaut. Say a lotto protected 1st for Gallinari and the little value difference from Paul to Wall is good value coming TO OKC.


You must be looking at a different poll.
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Re: Chris Paul vs. John Wall: who is worth more? 

Post#40 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:29 am

CP, Gallo, Noel, Nader, 2020 DEN 1st for Wall, Mahinmi, CJ, Rui, Brown

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