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Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm
by tiderulz
NuggetsWY wrote:Well, Orlando can certainly afford to trade Gordon and Oubre might be what they are looking for. The problem is, IMO, that Oubre hasn't proven himself to be at the same level of consistency that Gordon has proven himself to be. Look at it this way; starting forwards of Isaac + Gordon -or- Isaac + Oubre. No way Orlando makes this trade without at least a decent 1st.
explain to me why Oubre is what Orlando is looking for? would just like to hear your argument. 3 pt %? Gordon leads. ORTG, DRTG, Gordon leads. rebounds/assists - Gordon leads. OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP - Gordon leads. OWS, DWS, WS - Gordon leads.
PER - even. TS - Oubre leads.
by most views, Gordon is the better player across the board. So why is Oubre what they are looking for?
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:13 pm
by Ruzious
Crives wrote:Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Crives wrote:Post all star break per 36m
Kelly/AG
Pts - 22.1 / 17.1
FG% - 46.9% / 45.8%
Assists- 1.7 / 4.3
Steals- 2.3 / 0.7
Blocks- 1.0 / 0.7
I am sure AG has better advanced stats being on the superior team
That’s...Thats not how advanced stats work.
Post allstar break PER 36 numbers. I’m struggling to think of a worse way to evaluate value, and I’m struggling to find it.
PER 36 numbers in general are a joke in terms of assessing value. Then to try and fine tune them to a specific time frame that fits a narrative. No bueno sir/madam.
I used post all star break as it gave Oubre a few games to get adjusted to his new team... I also understand AG went on a tear the 2nd half of the season... not sure the issue.
I used per 36 as AG played a few more minutes then Oubre.
What you did was clear and perfectly fine. If others have problems with what you did, it's up to them to provide the information they think is more relevant - not just to criticize.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:21 pm
by pacers33granger
Oubre is a fine player, but I think it's fairly telling that basically everyone breathed a collective sigh of relief on behalf of Phoenix when they signed him for only 2 years at $15 mil and AG is pretty widely considered a good contract at roughly $4 mil more per year.
I think it takes Phoenix's pick unprotected or Bridges to get Orlando thinking about a deal and Phoenix wouldn't offer that much.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:55 pm
by Myth
Suns need to add quite a bit of value to make up the difference.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:56 pm
by Crives
pacers33granger wrote:Oubre is a fine player, but I think it's fairly telling that basically everyone breathed a collective sigh of relief on behalf of Phoenix when they signed him for only 2 years at $15 mil and AG is pretty widely considered a good contract at roughly $4 mil more per year.
I think it takes Phoenix's pick unprotected or Bridges to get Orlando thinking about a deal and Phoenix wouldn't offer that much.
To be fair... AG is on a declining contract. I’m not sure people would think he’s on a great deal if his contract didn’t decline to 16.4m
I certainly agree AG is worth more then Oubre if the trade was made right now.
But if Oubre continues his play post all star break when he joined the suns and became a starter... im not sure the value will be to far off come December or the trade deadline.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:59 pm
by MoneyTalks41890
Crives wrote:pacers33granger wrote:Oubre is a fine player, but I think it's fairly telling that basically everyone breathed a collective sigh of relief on behalf of Phoenix when they signed him for only 2 years at $15 mil and AG is pretty widely considered a good contract at roughly $4 mil more per year.
I think it takes Phoenix's pick unprotected or Bridges to get Orlando thinking about a deal and Phoenix wouldn't offer that much.
To be fair... AG is on a declining contract. I’m not sure people would think he’s on a great deal if his contract didn’t decline to 16.4m
I certainly agree AG is worth more then Oubre if the trade was made right now.
But if Oubre continues his play post all star break when he joined the suns and became a starter... im not sure the value will be to far off come December or the trade deadline.
Sure, but that's a double edged sword. He's only locked in for one more year after this, so if he plays really well, then he's going to get a lot more money. And he becomes a massive flight risk. His 2 year deal makes his value pretty low to other teams. I expect the Suns will just keep him and try to resign him. I don't think they can extend him.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:22 pm
by babyjax13
psman2 wrote:Oubre trade value was established as the corpse of Ariza. I just don't see how you you go from that to asking for Gordon. Oubre played well for the Suns down the stretch but his game has a ways to go to warrant this type of value.
I wouldn't judge anyone's value based on what Washington offers or accepts. Well, Grunfield, jury is out on the new FO (which is hopefully much, much better).
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 pm
by Magic_Johnny12
Not even close, I dont even think Orlando entertains the deal even with a low protected FRP included. Simply not the direction we're going in.
I also think that Okeke has a higher ceiling than Oubre on both ends of the floor.
Phoenix really screwed the pooch and should have drafted Brandon Clarke instead of Johnson. He would have fit like a glove. If you're already reaching for someone like Cameron at #11 why not Clarke?
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:23 pm
by jbk1234
NotACat wrote:Crives wrote:Post all star break per 36m
Kelly/AG
Pts - 22.1 / 17.1
FG% - 46.9% / 45.8%
Assists- 1.7 / 4.3
Steals- 2.3 / 0.7
Blocks- 1.0 / 0.7
I am sure AG has better advanced stats being on the superior team
AG is also an elite multi-positional defender and was effective in the point forward role at times last season. I don't think Oubre will come close to AGs value during any time in their careers (I anticipate AG to continue improving).
He's not elite. He is a good young, two-way player who plays at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Most of the trade proposals for him are low IMO.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 am
by Coeur
What? + 2 1sts? Maybe? Or 2020 unprotected ?
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:44 am
by gambitx777
The money doesn't work either i don't thjnk
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Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:02 am
by Prokorov
Crives wrote:Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon straight up
Can’t be completed until December.
Both teams would hate to move their player... but this deal feels like it makes a lot of sense in terms of balancing out the rosters.
Suns could start Mikal at the 3 and move Saric to a playmaking role off the bench. Would open up minutes for Cam at the backup 3
Magic can maintain a more balanced longboi lineup with Isaac at the 4 and Kelly at the three.
Personally I would hate moving Kelly but on paper this makes a lot of sense.
Curious to hear opinions on Kelly vs AG value.
agree with those who said AG has significantly more value. I ahve Oubre bordering on negtive value
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:11 am
by Soulyss
NotACat wrote:Crives wrote:Post all star break per 36m
Kelly/AG
Pts - 22.1 / 17.1
FG% - 46.9% / 45.8%
Assists- 1.7 / 4.3
Steals- 2.3 / 0.7
Blocks- 1.0 / 0.7
I am sure AG has better advanced stats being on the superior team
AG is also an elite multi-positional defender and was effective in the point forward role at times last season. I don't think Oubre will come close to AGs value during any time in their careers (I anticipate AG to continue improving).
While I agree this is laughable value for Gordon (and using per36 makes it worse) let's not start saying silly things like "elite multi-positional defender" when he's 41st in DRPM at the PF position.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:43 am
by GreatSunnyNorth
I’ll echo the consensus that the Suns would have to add significantly more value. But the fit might not be great even if the value can be worked out: there’s a far better chance of Saric playing well enough to satisfy the Suns they don’t need a PF upgrade than of Cam Johnson forcing his way into the rotation as a rookie.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:43 am
by NotACat
Soulyss wrote:NotACat wrote:Crives wrote:Post all star break per 36m
Kelly/AG
Pts - 22.1 / 17.1
FG% - 46.9% / 45.8%
Assists- 1.7 / 4.3
Steals- 2.3 / 0.7
Blocks- 1.0 / 0.7
I am sure AG has better advanced stats being on the superior team
AG is also an elite multi-positional defender and was effective in the point forward role at times last season. I don't think Oubre will come close to AGs value during any time in their careers (I anticipate AG to continue improving).
While I agree this is laughable value for Gordon (and using per36 makes it worse) let's not start saying silly things like "elite multi-positional defender" when he's 41st in DRPM at the PF position.
He's a primary SF defender...
Additionally, there is no single stat that can quantify a players defensive impact.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:59 pm
by TGW
Oubre is such a bonehead...I wouldn't trade anything of real value for him. He'll be a career journeyman IMO.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:19 pm
by Magic_Johnny12
The real question is how Orlando can pry Booker from Phoenix.
Around deadline when Phoenix is sniffing yet at another top 5 pick and Booker subtly expresses his concerns with the teams direction.
Aaron Gordon
DJ Augustine
'20 FRP (unprotected)
'22 FRP (top 10 protected)
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:28 pm
by Crives
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The real question is how Orlando can pry Booker from Phoenix.
Around deadline when Phoenix is sniffing yet at another top 5 pick and Booker subtly expresses his concerns with the teams direction.
Aaron Gordon
DJ Augustine
'20 FRP (unprotected)
'22 FRP (top 10 protected)
If Booker isn’t happy with PHX next year why would he want to join a worse supporting cast in Orlando on a team depleted of their 1sts?
Booker is going no where.. he’s got another 3 years at least until he can try to force a trade.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:37 pm
by Magic_Johnny12
Crives wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The real question is how Orlando can pry Booker from Phoenix.
Around deadline when Phoenix is sniffing yet at another top 5 pick and Booker subtly expresses his concerns with the teams direction.
Aaron Gordon
DJ Augustine
'20 FRP (unprotected)
'22 FRP (top 10 protected)
If Booker isn’t happy with PHX next year why would he want to
join a worse supporting cast in Orlando on a team depleted of their 1sts?
Booker is going no where.. he’s got another 3 years at least until he can try to force a trade.
Please tell me you forgot the green font.
Re: Kelly Oubre for Aaron Gordon
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 pm
by Crives
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Crives wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The real question is how Orlando can pry Booker from Phoenix.
Around deadline when Phoenix is sniffing yet at another top 5 pick and Booker subtly expresses his concerns with the teams direction.
Aaron Gordon
DJ Augustine
'20 FRP (unprotected)
'22 FRP (top 10 protected)
If Booker isn’t happy with PHX next year why would he want to
join a worse supporting cast in Orlando on a team depleted of their 1sts?
Booker is going no where.. he’s got another 3 years at least until he can try to force a trade.
Please tell me you forgot the green font.
Please tell me you remember AG and DJ are included in the package.